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sumguy777
Kabalite Warrior
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PostSubject: moving flat out and then charging   Thu Jan 19 2017, 05:44

ok so i looked everywhere to see if i could find a rule or something that says you can't move flat out and then charge. it says you can't run and then charge. Really i wanted to make sure i could move 12 inches with a raider then move 24 with aethersails and then charge with the troops in the open transport. And is it dangerous terrain if I can?

part b if i use jet bikes to move flat out can they charge?

thanks
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aurynn
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PostSubject: Re: moving flat out and then charging   Thu Jan 19 2017, 08:24

Hehe. Its actually simple.
BRB - Embarking and Disembarking - Models can only voluntarily embark or disembark in the Movement phase.
So no, you cannot disembark after Flat-Out as it happens in Shooting Phase, so you cannot charge. If they could, everyone would want a ride in our transports. :-D

BRB - Under Bikes and Jetbikes - Controlling their Bikes at such speeds takes all the riders’ concentration and skill, however. Bikes and Jetbikes therefore cannot shoot, charge or execute any other voluntary action until the end of their turn after Turbo-boosting.
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Squidmaster
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PostSubject: Re: moving flat out and then charging   Thu Jan 19 2017, 09:44

Flat Out happens in the Shooting Phase. So the passengers would have had to disembark in the Movement Phase, and not been onboard when you Flat Out.

Also, you can only charge from a Transport if it moved a maximum of 6".
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Kantalla
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PostSubject: Re: moving flat out and then charging   Thu Jan 19 2017, 10:14

How about if you crashed the transport with a flat out move. Logic to me would say that should be fatal for the passengers, but can they technically charge?

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aurynn
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PostSubject: Re: moving flat out and then charging   Thu Jan 19 2017, 10:27

They can, as long as it is an Assault Vehicle IMO. See nothing to prevent it in RAW.
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The Red King
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PostSubject: Re: moving flat out and then charging   Thu Jan 19 2017, 11:32

Wait.... so if my 1 hull point vehicle immobilized itself at the end of a 36 inch move I can still charge by RAW... heh. That's stupid lol

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aurynn
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PostSubject: Re: moving flat out and then charging   Thu Jan 19 2017, 11:35

Dont take my word as solid, I do read and reread the rules, but there are people with far more experience and knowledge than me. I would wait for Count or Betray or Amorrow to respond to this. :-)
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Count Adhemar
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PostSubject: Re: moving flat out and then charging   Thu Jan 19 2017, 11:38

Quote :
If a unit disembarks from a destroyed vehicle during the enemy turn, it cannot charge in the Assault phase of its own turn unless the destroyed vehicle had the Assault Vehicle special rule.

I can't see anything about in your own turn though...

It does mean that you'd have to have an already damaged vehicle go flat out into dangerous terrain, take a hull point that wrecks it, and then the unit must pass a Pinning test. You'd only get a 3" disembark and it doesn't work if you have to do an emergency disembark.

It could happen but I wouldn't base my entire battle plan on it!

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Last edited by Count Adhemar on Thu Jan 19 2017, 16:16; edited 1 time in total
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aurynn
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PostSubject: Re: moving flat out and then charging   Thu Jan 19 2017, 11:56

Giggity...
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sumguy777
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PostSubject: Re: moving flat out and then charging   Thu Jan 19 2017, 15:45

@Squidmaster wrote:
Flat Out happens in the Shooting Phase. So the passengers would have had to disembark in the Movement Phase, and not been onboard when you Flat Out.

Also, you can only charge from a Transport if it moved a maximum of 6".

raider is open topped and counts as an assault vehicle so you can charge from it. where does it say if it moved a maximum of 5 inches.
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Count Adhemar
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PostSubject: Re: moving flat out and then charging   Thu Jan 19 2017, 15:55

@sumguy777 wrote:
@Squidmaster wrote:
Flat Out happens in the Shooting Phase. So the passengers would have had to disembark in the Movement Phase, and not been onboard when you Flat Out.

Also, you can only charge from a Transport if it moved a maximum of 6".

raider is open topped and counts as an assault vehicle so you can charge from it. where does it say if it moved a maximum of 5 inches.

You need to disembark to charge. The rule says:

Quote :
A unit that begins its Movement phase embarked upon a vehicle can disembark either before or after the vehicle has moved (including pivoting on the spot, etc) so long as the vehicle has not moved more than 6".

You can't charge after disembarking except for assault vehicles. The Assault Vehicle rule is what allows you to charge. That says:

Quote :
Passengers disembarking from Access Points on a vehicle with this special rule can charge on the turn they do so (even in a turn that the vehicle was destroyed, or in the following turn) unless the vehicle arrived from Reserve that turn.

This seems to lend weight to being allowed to charge in your own turn from a wrecked vehicle and there doesn't appear to be anything preventing you from doing so if the vehicle has moved flat out.

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sumguy777
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PostSubject: Re: moving flat out and then charging   Thu Jan 19 2017, 16:04

right im never disembarking though just charging from the vehicle.

and then what if the flat out move was a tank shock? can't find anything preventing them from not charging then eaither
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Count Adhemar
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PostSubject: Re: moving flat out and then charging   Thu Jan 19 2017, 16:15

You can't charge from a vehicle. You have to disembark first.

Flat out moves and tank shocks are entirely different and can't be performed in the same turn by a vehicle. A vehicle cannot Tank Shock or Ram on a turn that a unit disembarks from it.

All of this is in the vehicles section of the rulebook.

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aurynn
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PostSubject: Re: moving flat out and then charging   Thu Jan 19 2017, 16:43

Yea. I believe you are playing it wrong then. You have to first disembark in movement phase and then declare charge in assault phase.

Quote :
To resolve a charge, use the following procedure:
• First, pick one of your units, and declare which enemy unit it wishes to charge.

Quote :
Assault Vehicle
Passengers disembarking from Access Points on a vehicle with this special rule can charge on the turn they do so (even on a turn that the vehicle was destroyed) unless the vehicle arrived from Reserve that turn.

It has been clarified in FAQ that any unit that is in a vehicle is not in fact present on the board. Therefore you may not choose it to declare charge any more than you can do this with units in reserve.
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sumguy777
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PostSubject: Re: moving flat out and then charging   Thu Jan 19 2017, 16:54

where does it say i have to disembark before I charge? raider is an assault vehicle meaning i can charge from it of after i disembarked.

it makes no sense. that i can't charge from an open-topped vehicle? they are literally called raiders, meaning to raid or charge. its what they do.
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sumguy777
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PostSubject: Re: moving flat out and then charging   Thu Jan 19 2017, 16:56

it makes no sense. that i can't charge from an open-topped vehicle? they are literally called raiders, meaning to raid or charge. its what they do. if they arent presnt then you cant shoot with warriors at targets that are in a venom.


Last edited by sumguy777 on Thu Jan 19 2017, 16:59; edited 1 time in total
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Count Adhemar
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PostSubject: Re: moving flat out and then charging   Thu Jan 19 2017, 16:57

@sumguy777 wrote:
where does it say i have to disembark before I charge?

Where does it say you can charge without disembarking?


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sumguy777
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PostSubject: Re: moving flat out and then charging   Thu Jan 19 2017, 16:59

@Count Adhemar wrote:
@sumguy777 wrote:
where does it say i have to disembark before I charge?

Where does it say you can charge without disembarking?


where does it say that you can't thats my thing
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Logan Frost
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PostSubject: Re: moving flat out and then charging   Thu Jan 19 2017, 17:05

Where does it say you can't use a blowtorch on the other player minis?

Rules explicit what you can do, not every single thing you can't.
If it is not explicitly allowed you can't do it.
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aurynn
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PostSubject: Re: moving flat out and then charging   Thu Jan 19 2017, 17:09

And here we are again. :-) These are not laws. These are rules.
RULES list what you are allowed to do. And you are not allowed to do what is not listed.
LAWS list what you are not allowed to do and everything that is not forbidden, is allowed. Its a common mistake though. :-)

Reductio ad absurdum: Where is it said you cannot make your kabalite warriors Toughness 10 for 1 point per model? By your logic I would be able to do this, which obviously makes it wrong.
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sumguy777
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PostSubject: Re: moving flat out and then charging   Thu Jan 19 2017, 17:30

I am doing an action that is part of the game "charging", there are restrictions for charging; from an assault vehicle, I don't believe to be one of them. Unless someone can show me a ruling otherwise.
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aurynn
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PostSubject: Re: moving flat out and then charging   Thu Jan 19 2017, 18:03

Srsly m8. You are playing it wrong. You cannot charge an unit that is not on board. Noone I know of is even trying to play it like you do.

AND... I have shown you the rule. Its right there under Assault vehicle:
Passengers DISEMBARKING from Access Points on a vehicle with this special rule can charge on the turn they do so (even on a turn that the vehicle was destroyed) unless the vehicle arrived from Reserve that turn.

There is nothing in the rule letting you charge FROM a vehicle. The unit is not present on the board. You cannot nominate a unit for a charge when it is not present on the board.

Deepstriking units in Drop Pods (which are assault vehicles) have to disembark first, even if they are allowed charge after Deep Strike.

EDIT:
Disembarking
A unit that begins its Movement phase embarked upon a vehicle can disembark either before or after the vehicle has moved (including pivoting on the spot, etc) so long as the vehicle has not moved more than 6".
If the vehicle had not moved before the unit disembarked, the vehicle can then move normally. If the vehicle had already moved before the unit disembarked, the vehicle cannot move further that turn (including pivoting on the spot, moving Flat Out, Running or charging). In addition, a vehicle cannot Tank Shock or Ram on a turn that a unit disembarks from it.

Charging from the vehicle is disembarking too...
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BetrayTheWorld
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PostSubject: Re: moving flat out and then charging   Thu Jan 19 2017, 18:44

@aurynn wrote:
Its right there under Assault vehicle:
Passengers DISEMBARKING from Access Points on a vehicle with this special rule can charge on the turn they do so (even on a turn that the vehicle was destroyed) unless the vehicle arrived from Reserve that turn.

This is why you can't charge from a the vehicle, even though it's open-topped. Disembarking is what TRIGGERS your ability to charge from the vehicle, as shown in the quote above. Without disembarking from an assault vehicle/open-topped vehicle, you have no permission to charge at all, and so it would default back to the normal vehicle state, from which you are specifically barred from charging.
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Count Adhemar
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PostSubject: Re: moving flat out and then charging   Thu Jan 19 2017, 22:45

Also, in order to charge you need Line of Sight to your target. You cannot draw LOS from inside a vehicle other than in the specific case of shooting weapons (or using witchfire psychic powers).

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sumguy777
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PostSubject: Re: moving flat out and then charging   Fri Jan 20 2017, 05:24

@aurynn wrote:
Srsly m8. You are playing it wrong. You cannot charge an unit that is not on board. Noone I know of is even trying to play it like you do.

AND... I have shown you the rule. Its right there under Assault vehicle:
Passengers DISEMBARKING from Access Points on a vehicle with this special rule can charge on the turn they do so (even on a turn that the vehicle was destroyed) unless the vehicle arrived from Reserve that turn.

There is nothing in the rule letting you charge FROM a vehicle. The unit is not present on the board. You cannot nominate a unit for a charge when it is not present on the board.

Deepstriking units in Drop Pods (which are assault vehicles) have to disembark first, even if they are allowed charge after Deep Strike.

EDIT:
Disembarking
A unit that begins its Movement phase embarked upon a vehicle can disembark either before or after the vehicle has moved (including pivoting on the spot, etc) so long as the vehicle has not moved more than 6".
If the vehicle had not moved before the unit disembarked, the vehicle can then move normally. If the vehicle had already moved before the unit disembarked, the vehicle cannot move further that turn (including pivoting on the spot, moving Flat Out, Running or charging). In addition, a vehicle cannot Tank Shock or Ram on a turn that a unit disembarks from it.

Charging from the vehicle is disembarking too...

where did that rule come from what section or page number from the small book? just wondering cause tonight i got a chance to play with several players one of which seems to know every rule in the book by heart and he told me i could charge from it if it was an assult vehilce.
he also said i could flat out and tank shock.

im not trying to be a pain in the @#$ but i just keep getting conficting responses. i also dont see the unit not on the borad as a issue shooting is know problem. why should chargeing be any different. measure it from in side the hull.
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