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 Needing help tailoring 1850

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Archon Vitcus
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PostSubject: Needing help tailoring 1850   Fri Jan 13 2017, 19:28




So hopefully the screenshot loads cause I'm really lazy and don't want to type out his list lol

Basic run down of it, there's 3farseers, a warlock, 5 units of wind riders and 3 wraithknights. He's playing an ETC tournament, don't ask me he difference between ETC and ITC, I don't know. Since I'm one of few dark eldar players, and probably one of the better ones he's asking for a test to see how it fairs against an unlikely army he'll face or as allies to other armies. He's got others playing him with space marines necron and tau but it's always those unexpected units that no one suspects that can cost you.

I can field most formations and detachments, Grotquesuire, CTC, dark artisan, a host of reavers plus harlie allies. I've no eldar of my own despite my love of cheese.

CTC seems like a good bet with ichor injectors, but against 3? Can you lock GMC in Cc?
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dumpeal
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PostSubject: Re: Needing help tailoring 1850   Fri Jan 13 2017, 19:54

With that many jetbikes, I'd say send him 2-4 2-medusae squad to toast him.

I don't know CWE well enough to be a good help for the rest of your list.
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BetrayTheWorld
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PostSubject: Re: Needing help tailoring 1850   Fri Jan 13 2017, 20:24

You have a huge disadvantage here. We'd need to know the rules in order to best help you counter a list like that, and the counter for a list like that, if it is even possible using solely dark eldar, will be extremely unusual, and so you'll be unlikely to have the models necessary to field it.

He has 3 wraithknights in the list. That's not even allowed in most tournaments.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Assuming you're following the rules out of the core rulebook(which no tournament does), you could take this list to beat him:

1 Scalpel Squadron
5 Wracks w/Ossefactor and Acothyst(warlord) w/Scissorhand & Stinger Pistol in a Dual-Cannon Venom 155
5 Wracks w/Ossefactor in a dual-cannon venom 130

6 Scalpel Squadrons
12x 5 Wracks w/Ossefactors in dual-cannon venoms 1560

The entire list has first turn deep strike, so you're guaranteed first hit. You ideally want to go second so that your troops are all fearless from the alternate PfP table by the time your opponent get's to shoot. They will put an average of roughly 9.6 unsaved wounds on wraithknights per turn, so by the second or third turn, he likely won't have any knights left. Be aware that you will score extra points from these formations for first blood, plus extra points for killing gargantuans while not having 1 yourself(rules are in escalation). I think it's 1 point per 3 health you take off. So you will get D3 plus 6 in extra points just for killing the wraithknights. So you'd focus on doing that even if it meant giving up a couple maelstrom objectives. Once the knights are gone, the rest of his army will fold quickly. If he makes a knight invisible, don't waste shots on it. Skip a turn of knight slaying to kill the psykers, which should be easy under weight of fire. It might even be better to focus on taking out his jetbikes/psykers first depending on how they deploy and what psychic powers he gets. You probably ought to aim to get the warlord trait that allows you to reroll 1's to hit for shooting within 12" of your warlord.

Now, I doubt you have 70 wracks and 14 venoms, and the rules of most tournaments wouldn't allow a list like this, but this is the type of list that could beat your friend's list. Be aware that this isn't an endorsement of wracks as good units in the current meta, and so I don't reccomend purchasing these models unless you can get your friend to enter into a bet where he pays for them if you win. Wink

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Archon Vitcus
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PostSubject: Re: Needing help tailoring 1850   Fri Jan 13 2017, 21:11

https://www.dropbox.com/s/1hwszkwlo20fqfz/Updated%20Tournament%20Files.zip?dl=0


The rules pack, the guy says I don't need to follow them and I trust him enough to not frak about with the rules since I'm having issues loading them.

Don't have 70 wracks lol

I'll think of something for it though and post it later on. Might try leadership bomb or something
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stevethedestroyeofworlds
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PostSubject: Re: Needing help tailoring 1850   Fri Jan 13 2017, 22:11

The masque, assuming its used properly, will shut down a CTC, so I wouldn't use one of those.
You could do the generic MSU venom+reaver spam, get in his face, and eat some of the jetbikes turn 2 and just run from the Wraith Knights

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BetrayTheWorld
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PostSubject: Re: Needing help tailoring 1850   Sat Jan 14 2017, 04:11

Archon Vitcus wrote:

I'll think of something for it though and post it later on. Might try leadership bomb or something

Leadership bomb won't hurt the wraithknights since they're fearless. Just an FYI.

It's an absurd list with 3 wraithknights in it, going against DE, who have massive problems killing 1 wraithknight. It's basically unwinnable without equally absurd tailoring, or a massive failure to play well on your opponent's part.

Because of the absurdity of tailoring in this case(requiring a mass of models no one owns), I wouldn't consider such a game worth my time. But then, I have DE, Eldar, Necrons, Orks, and Tau to draw from, so I wouldn't be so limited.

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Archon Vitcus
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PostSubject: Re: Needing help tailoring 1850   Sat Jan 14 2017, 09:22

i mean more for shriek. I've played against worse lists before. 35 warp spiders. 3 warp hunters. 9 hornets. So 3 wraiths don't actually scare me as much which sounds bad though I miss the days were one venom would look at a kinght and it died lol. For now though, I'll be ignoring them for the most part, take out his farseers and bikes first and lock his wraiths in combat.
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Archon Vitcus
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PostSubject: Re: Needing help tailoring 1850   Sat Jan 14 2017, 12:48

So this is what I have right now.

Archon, shadowfield, armour of misery, wwp

Warriors, venom DC
Warriors, venom DC
Warriors, venom DC

Reavers, claptrops
Reavers, claptrops
Reavers, claptrops
Reavers, claptrops
Reavers, claptrops
Reavers, claptrops

Coven: CTC

Talos, ichor injector
Talos, ichor injector
Talos, ichor injector
Talos, ichor injector
Talos, ichor injector

Harliequins: Cast of players

Inrians Spector
Shadowseer, lvl 2, mask of secrets
Group master, caress
Troupe caress
Troupe caress
Troupe, caress
Troupe
Troupe

Archon goes with cast and wwp in, main target is either a wraithknight with shriek, or taking out the farseers if they all join the same unit. If they are spread out, then it'll be a knight.

Warriors and venoms go after as many of the jetbikes or masque, can't have her debuffing  the CTC.

Reavers, well they do what they do.

Will be targeting out the farseers and windriders as first priority. He can't capture objectives if he loses his troops.

Have 45 points left over as is
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BetrayTheWorld
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PostSubject: Re: Needing help tailoring 1850   Sat Jan 14 2017, 20:26

Just so you are under no illusions, he can still capture objectives without troops. None of your units are objective secured, unless I'm missing something. So his wraithknights can sit on objectives.

I appreciate your enthusiasm, but wraithknights + scatterbikes are tougher on our faction than massed warp spiders, warp hunters, and hornets.

Both are offensively devastating to us, but the latter we can hurt. It takes roughly 245 splinter shots to kill a wraithknight. Or alternatively, 28 dark lance shots(assuming no cover save from all 28 shots), 55 bladevayne/caltrop hits, or 22 Talos ichor injector attacks(which means a CTC with ichor injectors can lose to a wraithknight with cannons if it charges THEM instead of the other way around, they will often lose to a sword wraithknight, and in either case, the point expenditure is not worth the trade.)

So these are our points costs to kill a single wraithknight in a round(bear in mind CC units have to make it into CC without losing any models for these to be accurate):

Venoms:   1327 points worth
Ravagers: 1250 points worth
Reavers:   630 points worth
Talos:      650 points worth

So as you can see, even if they CAN kill a wraithknight, the focus fire necessary to do so leaves you at a net loss, because while you're focusing 630-1327 points on killing his 295 point unit, he gets to kill many times more than that in your points.

The shriek bomb will be helpful though. That's basically your best bet for killing a wraithknight quickly. The first time around, I missed the part about you having harley allies available.

Either way, it's an uphill battle, but his low number of shots from the wraithknights allows for luck to carry the day. So, good luck! Wink

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Archon Vitcus
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PostSubject: Re: Needing help tailoring 1850   Sat Jan 14 2017, 21:47

Oh yeah I know he can still capture objectives, but if I can kill enough jetbikes, well, all of them, his knights can only capture three. And on the off chance that luck is with me, I'll beat the statistical improbability and kill 2 lol

I was going to take a kamikaze solitaire but figure the cast of players will be better if I can take out his farseers.

Despite what I'm facing, i actually like the list as a whole, might stick in three blasters on the warriors to use up the last of the points.
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Archon Vitcus
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PostSubject: Re: Needing help tailoring 1850   Tue Jan 17 2017, 15:23

So after being asked to tailed to his wraithknight list, he brought 42 jetbikes with scatter lasers and 6 Vaul battiers

Currently about to be tabled.
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BetrayTheWorld
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PostSubject: Re: Needing help tailoring 1850   Tue Jan 17 2017, 17:52

Sounds like he tailored to beat DE instead. Scatterbikes kill pretty much everything in our codex.

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PostSubject: Re: Needing help tailoring 1850   Tue Jan 17 2017, 19:22

This guy doesn't sound all that enjoyable to play....I'd be respectfully denying in future

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Archon Vitcus
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PostSubject: Re: Needing help tailoring 1850   Tue Jan 17 2017, 19:34

He changed his list after a tournament at the weekend, transporting 3 wraithknights is a pain apparently lol he thought he resent his list and told me to change the list I brought but I wanted to see how it faired.

The guy is actually really nice, known him 8yrs and every game has always been enjoyable, even the one where neither of us could actually kill any thing over 6 turns, each of us lost like 3 units that whole game.

I will be fleshing out my army in the future with eldar allies though, especially if runors of our codex merging is true but I'd rather stay pure kin than mix and match.
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PostSubject: Re: Needing help tailoring 1850   Tue Jan 17 2017, 19:38

Fair enough, if you have a long standing friendship with the guy than I guess it's all good

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