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 Grotesquerie, how do you run it?

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BetrayTheWorld
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PostSubject: Re: Grotesquerie, how do you run it?   Mon Jan 09 2017, 05:41

@amorrowlyday wrote:
WWP explicitly stipulates that it works in ongoing reserve. Both Webway Breach and the Multi-phase key generator explicitly place you into actual on-going reserves

Ah, ok. Like I said, I didn't know what you meant by MPKG, so now that I do, that makes sense. I use them differently because I usually use deathstars that require at least 2 detachments of Eldar, so only room for 1 non-craftworld detachment. Different strokes for different folks. When not using corsairs, I stand by my original post. I also prefer more reliability than hoping for 1 power on a ML2 psyker. I'd never put myself in the situation to be "hoping" for a power. I get what I need pretty much every time I play. I use so much redundancy in my psychic lists that I don't leave a lot to chance.

@Jimsolo wrote:
I couldn't find any ruling on WWP and DS ability situations in the ITC FAQ.

I don't know if it's cited in the FAQ, but they also have rules listed in various other places. I really wish they laid out their rules better. Anyhow, I spoke with Reece from frontline gaming, and got an email from ITC staff that runs the LVO saying that since it says "arrives from reserves", the WWP doesn't work for things like gate of infinity. I sincerely wish it did. I'd use it SOO much more.

This ruling actually caused me to have to change my army a week before the tourny for last year's LVO. I was still painting models 3 hours before the tournament started. I played that tourny with zero sleep, but still made top 15%.

There ARE things that work for gate of infinity, like Baharroth's special rule, swooping hawk exarch's special rule, one space marine character named...Belial, I think. There might be others, but there aren't many. I've discussed this topic in many places, many times.

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amorrowlyday
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PostSubject: Re: Grotesquerie, how do you run it?   Mon Jan 09 2017, 05:49

I completely understand and the justifications you gave in your follow-up as to why earlier were very cogent.
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BetrayTheWorld
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PostSubject: Re: Grotesquerie, how do you run it?   Mon Jan 09 2017, 06:26

@amorrowlyday wrote:
I completely understand and the justifications you gave in your follow-up as to why earlier were very cogent.

I'd be a corsairs player if 2 things weren't true:

1. Void Dreamers are 1 per army.
2. Dissonance doesn't work against vehicles like vibro does.(Pretty sure this was an oversight, but it screwed an entire class of weapons).

There is some other wording in there that could use a FAQ, but those 2 are the big ones. It's unfortunate that forgeworld stuff often takes years to get a FAQ if it ever does.

Other than those 2 massive issues(for me!), I really loved the flavor, vibe, and rules of the corsairs. If whoever wrote the corsairs section was to be in charge of the next edition of DE, I have no doubt we'd end up with something inspired(if not entirely well edited).

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Painjunky
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PostSubject: Re: Grotesquerie, how do you run it?   Mon Jan 09 2017, 07:59

@amorrowlyday wrote:
If you're losing bodies on the way in, or are charging something with 6 bodies that you can't heavily maim or outright kill in 1-2 turns of combat you're using the wrong tool for the job.

Yes those 2 instances are rare but over the turns the grotesquerie units will suffer casualties.

As i said i like a few additional grots (units of 4-5) for more mileage even if they don't get rampage on their first charge. They don't need it till they lose a couple anyway.
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Lost Vyper
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PostSubject: Re: Grotesquerie, how do you run it?   Mon Jan 09 2017, 12:02

I have used Farseer (Bike, Stones, Spear) with Haemie (WWP) and an Archon (Blaster, AoM) + 4 Grots. DS in, Psychic Shriek away and on turn 2. Farseer jets off (if needed) and grabs objectives/joins an Eldar bike squad. The problem i have with the AoM+Frekish Spectacle+Psychic Shriek is the fact, that it is VERY situational in it´s working. Getting the power on is no problem, but it is surprisingly easy to roll below, like 8, with three dice Smile. In one game, i used this power about three times and it worked once (meaning = killing more than one marine).
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Jimsolo
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PostSubject: Re: Grotesquerie, how do you run it?   Mon Jan 09 2017, 13:26

Leadership Shenanigans are like Voltron: they get better the more you have.

Between Coven formations, Armor of Misery, Mask of Secrets, and a few others here and there, it's easy to stack your modifiers to the ceiling. Smile
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fisheyes
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PostSubject: Re: Grotesquerie, how do you run it?   Mon Jan 09 2017, 16:25

Now if only DE had access to some sort of power natively to make use of the -LD fun. Why does everything we have get neutered by ATSKNF?!?! I have stopped running AoM because its just not worth the extra points to make MEQs run, just to catch them for +1 attack...
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Logan Frost
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PostSubject: Re: Grotesquerie, how do you run it?   Tue Jan 10 2017, 15:03

So I just had my first ride with a grotesguerie.

2x grotesque, grotesque, Abby+Agonizer
Heamy+flesh gauntlet
Succubus+AoM+glaive+HWG

Hey killed 10/15 bloodletters, 5 bloodcrushers+herald on juggy, 5 possessed, bunch of marined+lord with instadeath axe, part of a second squad of marines+lord+murder axe, a skullcannon.

The succ, heamy and a squad died on turn 7.

Grotesquerie: don't leave home without them.
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fisheyes
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PostSubject: Re: Grotesquerie, how do you run it?   Tue Jan 10 2017, 16:10

When they hit, they hit hard. When they miss, they get obliterated. I too dont leave home without my trusty Grots though Wink
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Lost Vyper
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PostSubject: Re: Grotesquerie, how do you run it?   Fri Jan 13 2017, 07:53

On the last Tuesday, had a Triple Threat Match against Space Wolves and Blood Angels. This time, the Grots didn´t perform, cos i was against a rock and a hard spot. One side, S10 dudes on wolves and on the other, Mephiston with S10 + Force and a load of Hammernators...i chose the first option and got wiped, cos i rolled a 1 on a shadowfield throw immediately...i got Rage as enhancement bonus...but this game was also lost due to a fact, that i would have been better off, without Grots and more Warriors+Venoms...but hey, the dice weren´t with me either, so, stuff happens...Smile
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fisheyes
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PostSubject: Re: Grotesquerie, how do you run it?   Fri Jan 13 2017, 14:10

Yep, our best unit is still not a "Point, Click, Remove Unit" sort of thing. It still requires a lot of thought, and can still run into some nasty counters (such as listed above).

I hate it when they get tied up by T5 2+ enemy units (you are CHARGING with your Centurions?!?!)
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PostSubject: Re: Grotesquerie, how do you run it?   Sun Jan 15 2017, 10:25

Bit of a noob question but what is a sump? And what is a dark artisan? And what is an MEQ?
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BizarreShowbiz
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PostSubject: Re: Grotesquerie, how do you run it?   Sun Jan 15 2017, 10:37

@Derekwbrough wrote:
Bit of a noob question but what is a sump? And what is a dark artisan? And what is an MEQ?

Sump is a relic in the coven codex that let the haemonculus choose between some usrs like fleet or poisoned 4+

dark artisan is a formation composed of a talos, a chronos and an haemonculus that form a single unit, get +1 to HA and I and automatically get a warlord terait that lets every pain engine within 12" of the haemoncilus to reroll FNP results of 1

MEQ is spaces marines armies

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PostSubject: Re: Grotesquerie, how do you run it?   Sun Jan 15 2017, 11:17

Yep it keeps coming back I'm gonna have to get a copy of the covens supplement
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PostSubject: Re: Grotesquerie, how do you run it?   Sun Jan 15 2017, 14:28

MEQ stands for Marines and their Equivalents. Essentially anything with WS 4, BS 4, S4, T4, and a 3+ armor save normally.
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PostSubject: Re: Grotesquerie, how do you run it?   Sun Jan 15 2017, 20:53

Mon keigh filth then
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amorrowlyday
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PostSubject: Re: Grotesquerie, how do you run it?   Sun Jan 15 2017, 23:39

Well there's a touch more to it than that. Not just IoM have them. Some deviation from the statline happens. For instance in a lot of circles Incubi are considered anti-TE quasi-MEQ due to their 3+ saves as are Sisters of battle even though they also have lower S/T. Nid's Tyrant Guard, Tau Crisis suits are explicit MEQ by comparison. Some people even consider Wraithguard to be MEQ but their really between MEQ and TEQ.

TEQ is terminator equivalent: T4 2+ or T6+ 3+( and Decurion Lychguard).

GEQ is Guard equivalent: T3 4+ or worse. Kabalites and Guardians are both GEQ.
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PostSubject: Re: Grotesquerie, how do you run it?   Mon Jan 16 2017, 05:26

@amorrowlyday wrote:
Well there's a touch more to it than that. Not just IoM have them. Some deviation from the statline happens. For instance in a lot of circles Incubi are considered anti-TE quasi-MEQ due to their 3+ saves as are Sisters of battle even though they also have lower S/T. Nid's Tyrant Guard, Tau Crisis suits are explicit MEQ by comparison. Some people even consider Wraithguard to be MEQ but their really between MEQ and TEQ.

TEQ is terminator equivalent: T4 2+ or T6+ 3+( and Decurion Lychguard).

GEQ is Guard equivalent: T3 4+ or worse. Kabalites and Guardians are both GEQ.

Necron Immortals are MEQ as well. Also CSM.
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PostSubject: Re: Grotesquerie, how do you run it?   Thu Jan 19 2017, 11:25

honestly I constider wraithguard to be grotesque equivalents myself, a class of their own really since termies rely on 2+ to survive along with a T4.
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PostSubject: Re: Grotesquerie, how do you run it?   Thu Jan 19 2017, 11:59

I suppose it all comes down to statistical survivability. How resilient is T6 3+ compared to T4 2+/5++?

Grotesques are TEQ done DE style. Not quite as resilient, but much killier Smile

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PostSubject: Re: Grotesquerie, how do you run it?   Thu Jan 19 2017, 23:30

[quote="Ynneadwraith"]I suppose it all comes down to statistical survivability. How resilient is T6 3+ compared to T4 2+/5++?

Grotesques are TEQ done DE style. Not quite as resilient, but much killier Smile[/quote

Lol, what do you consider Tyranid warriors (personally I try not to think of them at all).

I remeber watching a 3 player game at my local game store. Orcs, Nids and some marine faction (yay Razz).

the nids guys list was:
9 warriors
hive tyrant on foot
2 mawlock
3 carnifexes
splatter of venomthropes for cover.

i watched most of the game in silence, eventually i pointed out that buddys 27 wounds of warriors was the only thing (left) that was providing synapse and that it was 27 wounds that were not immune to instant death...

I guess 2+sv is almost as good as 3 wounds... maybe. until you include eternal warrior, then things get real ugly real fast. T6 is almost as good as it puts you out of instnat death range unless specifically stated in the models profile or on its weapon w/e : ).

I guess the example of crisis suits comes to mind. there are a lot of S8 Ap2 weapons out there, and they hurt multi wound models real good.

not so many s10 ap1-2. but there are enough (ghost ark, guard, tau, on and on). and many times in large blast templates. Yay.

however its usually a big investment on a fairly fragile platform providing this in long range. Short range includes things that must not be named and if something this nasty gets into CqC with you well... hello solitaire?
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PostSubject: Re: Grotesquerie, how do you run it?   Sat Feb 04 2017, 17:10

usually play them 3\haem 3\succubus.

Throw the 3\haem at anything that doesnt counter them.

Used the 3\succubus to chew terminatorsd,marine, 14 chaos dog with karanak and an assaulting squad.

It's like a meatball with a 7 inches needle in it, and you throw it where needed.
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PostSubject: Re: Grotesquerie, how do you run it?   Mon Feb 06 2017, 13:09

@KaliYuga wrote:
usually play them 3\haem 3\succubus.

Throw the 3\haem at anything that doesnt counter them.

Used the 3\succubus to chew terminatorsd,marine, 14 chaos dog with karanak and an assaulting squad.

It's like a meatball with a 7 inches needle in it, and you throw it where needed.

Do you think running the abby squad leader is worth it? If I did use it I would give him a sh, but only did it if I had extra points to make the unit a little beefier.
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PostSubject: Re: Grotesquerie, how do you run it?   Mon Feb 06 2017, 13:29

I usually don't - don't take my advice as one of a super good player.

Tend to spend the point elsewhere.

Anyway,if you know you're facing marine,it's satisfying to see them fold in assault with the agonizer
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PostSubject: Re: Grotesquerie, how do you run it?   Mon Feb 06 2017, 15:00

Absolutely he's worth it. The Scissorhand lets you threaten walkers and TEQ, and being a character lets you shield ICs from challenges.
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