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 Any thoughts about holding up a death star

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Rancid blade
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PostSubject: Any thoughts about holding up a death star   Thu Dec 29 2016, 17:57

Conventional wisdom says that to shoot or try to kill a modern death star is crazy. 2++ with re-roll (and FNP or invis) is common in the game. It's a waste of time to try and kill it. But, you can't just ignore them. Has anyone tried a strategy of bogging down a death star with cheap durable close combat units? Every turn a star is in combat with the wrong unit, its usefulness diminishes. I imagine a 10 man wych squad with a Farseer (or a Corsair Prince with shadow field and shard) with the Shard could hold up a death star for a turn or two. Or a ten man wych squad with a fearless haemonculi.

But they'll just hit and run, you say. True. you'd have to have a couple of blocker squads to ensure you could re-engage the star when they flee. Also, if they're fleeing in the right direction, you're diminishing the star's utility also. Also, not all death stars have hit and run.

Wychs are terrible, you say. True. However, for this purpose they might work. The only thing wyches have going for them is their 4++ in close combat. If they were fearless they could very well pin down a death star for a while.

I'm not saying it's the best strategy, I'm just saying it's a possible strategy.

Thoughts? RB
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PostSubject: Re: Any thoughts about holding up a death star   Thu Dec 29 2016, 18:10

the best strategy is to play an MSU, ignore them altogether and focus on killing the satellite units to force them to split up the last turns to grab objectives, and only them try to damage them. We have the mobility and range to do so.

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Skari
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PostSubject: Re: Any thoughts about holding up a death star   Thu Dec 29 2016, 23:03

If you need to tie them up, one of the key things is dont charge them, let them charge you! Also... use moves, and runs to create movement screens with kabalite warriors or even boosting tanks, so that they cant move.
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TeenageAngst
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PostSubject: Re: Any thoughts about holding up a death star   Fri Dec 30 2016, 04:00

The better question would be why are you playing Dark Eldar against tournament level lists? Nobody runs a netlisted death star for fun, I'd tell them to get bent if they brought that and it was just a normal 40k night where people are showing up to unwind and have a good time. Even top level armies have difficulty dealing with death stars let alone us.

If you're playing competitively, get a Culexus in a bunker with an escape hatch and slingshot it at the death star the moment it wanders too close. Once the psykers are shut down, drown it in poison. Alternatively bring a Tantalus and tank shock the unit, forcing them to split the death star. It's got the footprint of a Baneblade so don't underestimate the ability for it to clog some real estate.

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PostSubject: Re: Any thoughts about holding up a death star   Fri Dec 30 2016, 10:13

@TeenageAngst wrote:
The better question would be why are you playing Dark Eldar against tournament level lists? Nobody runs a netlisted death star for fun, I'd tell them to get bent if they brought that and it was just a normal 40k night where people are showing up to unwind and have a good time. Even top level armies have difficulty dealing with death stars let alone us.

If you're playing competitively, get a Culexus in a bunker with an escape hatch and slingshot it at the death star the moment it wanders too close. Once the psykers are shut down, drown it in poison. Alternatively bring a Tantalus and tank shock the unit, forcing them to split the death star. It's got the footprint of a Baneblade so don't underestimate the ability for it to clog some real estate.

I hadn't even thought of using a Tantalus for Tank Shock.

Ram them with a Raider (or two) first. Then Tank Shock with the Tantalus and remove a good 4 or 5 models from play as per the latest FAQ!

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PostSubject: Re: Any thoughts about holding up a death star   Fri Dec 30 2016, 12:03

@Ynneadwraith wrote:
Ram them with a Raider (or two) first. Then Tank Shock with the Tantalus and remove a good 4 or 5 models from play as per the latest FAQ!

Care to elaborate?

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PostSubject: Re: Any thoughts about holding up a death star   Fri Dec 30 2016, 12:27

Ah, there was a discussion on here just after the FAQ. Can't remember where it was, but basically using the new Tank Shock rules, if you can Tank Shock a unit so that some models cannot retain unit coherency, those displaced models are removed from play. Works best with multiple Tank Shocks. The scenario goes like this:

Lets take a line of Gretchin (G), spaced out at max 2".

G-G-G-G-G-G

Then, you tank-shock with a Shock Prow Raider (Raid). The models displaced must move the minimum possible distance to get out of the footprint of the Raider (including the min distance away from the base of the Raider).

G-G-Raid-G-G
......\G-G/

Then, you Tank Shock with a second Raider like so:

G-G-Raid-G-G
...G-Raid-G

Because the two Gretchin you've displaced with the second Raider cannot be placed maintaining unit coherency, they are removed from play.

Replace the Gretchin with an Invisible Librarian and you've just neutered the Death Star (provided our paper boats don't get Death or Gloried into oblivion...).

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PostSubject: Re: Any thoughts about holding up a death star   Fri Dec 30 2016, 12:42

That is really interesting. I shall study it further.

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PostSubject: Re: Any thoughts about holding up a death star   Fri Dec 30 2016, 13:57

Use some unit to leave it on Death Star assault range - dictate where they will charge. Make it so that the place they will charge is the wrong place for battle.

You will lose unit - and they will lose 2 turns and initiative. Meanwhile use this turn to move your other units out of threat and kill rest of opponent force.

Dont assault yourself - chances are big you'l just bounce off and achieve nothing.

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PostSubject: Re: Any thoughts about holding up a death star   Fri Dec 30 2016, 17:06

Mass tank shocks and rams are how I run my parking lot list. It always takes people by surprise.

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PostSubject: Re: Any thoughts about holding up a death star   Fri Dec 30 2016, 18:11

So far played 4 games against the new CSM, trying to use the new Tankshock FAQ. After all four games, it only came into play once against a Raptor Talon formation. Unfortunately it turned out I was playing "Timmy", so I wasnt allowed to use it.

Now if the other guy brings a real Deathstar against you, I am sure the 5 pt investment in Chain Snares could be worthwile. Personally I am debating changing them out for another Venom...

Last game had a CSM Sorcerer with a unit of Deathguard Oblits DS into the backfield. 2W, T5, 2+ 4++ 4+FNP +Psykic. Made the mistake of shooting at it, and literally 100 poisen shots later 0 wounds inflicted (was below average to be fair).

As others have said, we really need to focus on our MSU tactics and target priority. They cant kill all of us, if their deathstar wants to kill a 5 man warrior squad and their venom its OK. We just need to take out the priority units, play the objectives, and most importantly ignore things that we cant kill.
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Painjunky
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PostSubject: Re: Any thoughts about holding up a death star   Fri Dec 30 2016, 23:28

@fisheyes wrote:

As others have said, we really need to focus on our MSU tactics and target priority. They cant kill all of us, if their deathstar wants to kill a 5 man warrior squad and their venom its OK. We just need to take out the priority units, play the objectives, and most importantly ignore things that we cant kill.

This... and screen and bait it into a bad position like Azdrubael said.
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Korona
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PostSubject: Re: Any thoughts about holding up a death star   Sun Jan 01 2017, 09:35

I love deepstriking terminators. They have mean short ranged firepower and CC punch but are SO SLOW!
Fighting them reminds me of this scene from Enter the Dragon:
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PostSubject: Re: Any thoughts about holding up a death star   Sun Jan 01 2017, 12:30

Baiting I to bad positions on the table is a good idea. If they have Gate of Infinity they can still relocate however, or Jetbikes of course....but slow moving deathstars aren't that scary for our MSU abilities

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aurynn
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PostSubject: Re: Any thoughts about holding up a death star   Sun Jan 01 2017, 16:14

I agree on the Tankshocking. Takes practice to actually make it work, but it works.
Here is the thread we were discussing this:
http://www.thedarkcity.net/t14581-new-faq-smashfacing-the-smashfacer
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RedRegicide
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PostSubject: Re: Any thoughts about holding up a death star   Mon Jan 02 2017, 00:00

Lawrence mentioned that readers are useful counters:
Auto hit ignores invisibility and cover saves
Rending helps with those super saves
High speed to scatter if necessary, grab objectives.

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