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 Blaster + HWG on Syrabite

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Do you think Blaster + HWG on Syrabite is worth it?
Never
6%
 6% [ 2 ]
No... Save the points for more stuff
27%
 27% [ 9 ]
Yes... Always
3%
 3% [ 1 ]
Yes... List dependent
52%
 52% [ 17 ]
Yes... With only 3+ squads of them
6%
 6% [ 2 ]
What's a Blaster and HWG on a Syrabite?
6%
 6% [ 2 ]
Total Votes : 33
 

AuthorMessage
SCP Yeeman
Sybarite


Posts : 266
Join date : 2013-04-17

PostSubject: Blaster + HWG on Syrabite   Mon Dec 26 2016, 03:19

I know there was this thread http://www.thedarkcity.net/t12268-haywire-grenades-on-sybarite-to-do-or-not-to?highlight=haywire 18+ months ago, but I have seen on the boards, listen to Splintermind, and seen army lists that now say Blaster + HWG on Syrabites is the way to run Venom Warriors.  Wanted to see your thoughts on it.

Obviously Lawrence won No Retreat 3 with this set up, but is it the "go to" for Warriors.  For the longest I have just done the plain 105pt Warrior Squads to keep them cheap, more units, and focused on just killing infantry.  However, with chatter building I am interested on what others say.  Is it only worth it if you take a certain number of squads? Never worth it? List dependent?

Let me know your thoughts! Vote then explain why you voted that way so we can facilitate discussion.
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Logan Frost
Sybarite
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Posts : 450
Join date : 2016-01-25

PostSubject: Re: Blaster + HWG on Syrabite   Mon Dec 26 2016, 15:50

I always include a blaster in my 4 venom warriors but I can't see the usefulness if a HWG sybarite.

The HWG is always out of the minimum optimal range of 18" and out of the sweet spot of 12".

You should play very aggressively in CC or be uncomfortably close to the enemy CC.

It would rarely pay itself back, at least in my meta.
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aurynn
Incubi


Posts : 1626
Join date : 2013-04-23

PostSubject: Re: Blaster + HWG on Syrabite   Mon Dec 26 2016, 21:04

Do you have a link to Lawrence's list? Could you post it here please? I would like to see what he is working with.

As for the poll - I tend to give half the 5-man units sybarites with HWG and sometimes power weapon if it is a backfield guard unit.
I never use Blasters on warriors. Makes the unit "valuable".
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Hekatrix


Posts : 1036
Join date : 2011-06-27
Location : Sydney

PostSubject: Re: Blaster + HWG on Syrabite   Mon Dec 26 2016, 22:11

As Dark Eldar players we need as much anti tank as possible. More "2s to glance" in the army? Yes please!

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SCP Yeeman
Sybarite


Posts : 266
Join date : 2013-04-17

PostSubject: Re: Blaster + HWG on Syrabite   Mon Dec 26 2016, 22:27

@Aurynn

From memory it was:

Realspace Raiders Detachment

Archon-tooled out pretty well w/ Venom
x5 Warriors, Blaster, Syrabite w/ HWG (4-5 squads)
x6 Reavers, x2 Caltrops, x2 Blasters (6 Squads)

That was it I believe.

I used to (5th and 6th edition) put Syrabites with weapons, but not anymore. Lots of points in those units now and I used to run them 10 man strong. I am of the thinking that more units are better, and I have been quite successful at the tournament scene when I was more active. But now, with bigger things (IK, Battle CO., etc.) I am not sure if losing a squad to up the AT of 3 other squads is not too bad. Yes, they become "valuable" but that necessarily is not a bad thing. Having shots go towards them now is much better then people picking off the real valuable units. It seems bringing these guys up makes them and everything appear "valuable" which allows saturation and target priority issues. They still are not hard to kill, but they still need to be killed to the man because a Blaster and/or HWG can kill vehicles well.
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BizarreShowbiz
Sybarite
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Posts : 250
Join date : 2014-11-16

PostSubject: Re: Blaster + HWG on Syrabite   Tue Dec 27 2016, 09:35

The HWG on the sybarite gives you Ld 9, a weapon that glances any vehicle in the game with a roll of 3+/2+ and can be used in the shooting AND assault phase with look out sir

The blaster gives you a weapon with higher range but that will damage a vehicle in an average roll of 3+/4+ (far more unlikely for a single shot weapon) and can be only used in the shooting phase.

Both cost the same points: 15. If you carry both this adds 30p to a warrior squad to a total of 70p, incluiding venom 135.

I almost always run my Kabalite Warriors barebones. I dont think the invest you make in AV is worth the points increase, but when I have points to spare I sometimes pay for the sybarite with HWG, just becouse it brings so much more to the table in certain matchups than the blaster.

Im a big fan of Lawrence, and I watched all his DE battlereports over at Tabletop Tactics, but in all of them I cant recall a single time a blaster has done anything of relevance. I think fielding both AV weapons in warrior units is counterproductive. There is such a huge range mismatch between the venom, that wants to be 36" away, and the squad, that wants to be as close as 8-18" of enemy vehicles, that it will only make both die earlier and thus be less effective as a whole.




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Cherrycoke
Kabalite Warrior
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Posts : 139
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PostSubject: Re: Blaster + HWG on Syrabite   Tue Dec 27 2016, 11:18

I dont think its worth it. The upgrade of the sybarite tax and just blasters in general are just unappealing.
If you want anti-tank there are better options, if you want anti-armor there are better options.
I would just leave 5mans in venoms to do what they do best, keep range and spew splinter fire.
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aurynn
Incubi


Posts : 1626
Join date : 2013-04-23

PostSubject: Re: Blaster + HWG on Syrabite   Tue Dec 27 2016, 16:33

@SCP Yeeman - thanks.

Well I dont think that warriors are best at range given their RF weapons. I tend to run them very agressively maximizing their shots output, otherwise they become very, very inefficcient even at what they are supposed to do best. If the 25pts Sybarite knocks 2 HP out of anything that is not a Rhino in a single round, he paid himself off (shooting + assault). Hell in some cases (anything costing 100+ pts) he pays for the whole squad. :-D
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SCP Yeeman
Sybarite


Posts : 266
Join date : 2013-04-17

PostSubject: Re: Blaster + HWG on Syrabite   Tue Dec 27 2016, 20:26

I am thinking of trying this out with the Blaster and HWGs, but I have only 3 squads of them. are only 3 squads worth it if I bring along some bike squads and a Corpsethief? I am thinking there is enough targets to shoot and people will often forget about the Warriors with 5 bike squads (Harley + DE) in their face. Obviosuly going 2nd, my opponent should destroy the Venoms and make them walk, but then I can secure backfield objectives and cautiously move up.
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CptMetal
Trueborn
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Join date : 2015-03-03
Location : Ruhr Metropolian Area

PostSubject: Re: Blaster + HWG on Syrabite   Tue Dec 27 2016, 20:33

I always take the Blaster and if I know that the enemy will come to me and is using tanks, I add the Haywire Grenades too.
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Rewind
Kabalite Warrior
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Posts : 220
Join date : 2016-05-12
Location : Surrey

PostSubject: Re: Blaster + HWG on Syrabite   Tue Dec 27 2016, 21:52

Hi there,

In the last few months I've started to either take my Warriors cheap with just a Cannon Venom, or add the Syb & HWG, but never the Blaster.

I tend to move my Venoms more than 6" nearly every turn, meaning the Blaster would always be snap firing, unless I unload the troops or don't make use of the Venoms mobility. The situational Syb. has been actually quite useful.

Syb with HWG are great at taking that last HP that the Scourges failed to take, or when your Ravagers reliably fluff.

More than once the LD buff has keep the unit in the fight too.
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Seshiru
Sybarite


Posts : 405
Join date : 2012-07-03

PostSubject: Re: Blaster + HWG on Syrabite   Tue Dec 27 2016, 23:27

For the most part I now run my warriors in raiders with lances rather than venoms, and I've actually been struggling with this very question. So far I've still found the blaster very reliable for AI but I don't tend to use it for AT unless there is just nothing else to shoot at. I'm also more than willing to drop it if I need those extra points to bring in something else to the list.

The 2 or more extra warriors I have in the squad (tend to run 7+ rather than the minimum 5) becomes extra waste everytime the squad is shooting at a tank, however I've started to see more walkers with the last round of FAQs/erratas and transport spam battle company is still a huge uphill battle for me so I've been wondering whether or not the haywire grenade is the solution.

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doriii
Sybarite
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Posts : 251
Join date : 2013-04-19
Location : durr

PostSubject: Re: Blaster + HWG on Syrabite   Wed Dec 28 2016, 15:14

when you get drop podded these squads can be very useful
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Skari
Wych
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Join date : 2011-12-12
Location : Canada

PostSubject: Re: Blaster + HWG on Syrabite   Thu Dec 29 2016, 16:02

I think that the upgrade will work, as long as your army build and tactics take that into account.

I love all forms of Dark Eldar builds.

The blaster is a very good all round weapon, not only dealing with tanks, but also heavy targets like riptides, wraith knights and storm surges. So it is worth it almost every time.

If you have AT in other parts of the list, like with scourge, or fire dragon allies, then the blaster looses its potency as you fill that gap with other parts of your list, then the cheapo 5 kabs in a venom, option, becomes very appealing to get more obsec in there!

It really depends. I have been running 6 units of kabs in venoms/raiders with blasters recently alot because of the prevailence of riptide wings, those 18" s8 sp2 guns really help when the bullets start flying and I am deepstriking or reserving most of the army or all of the army, and this allows them to get into range fast. So, for that purpose, it works.

The haywire syb is GOLD when facing any MECH army, like knights or battle company, as you have a chance for each unit to do a potential 3 HP to a tank, blaster, thrown grenade and combat grenade... this makes each unit a very real threat to any tank line. So, I can see the value... and this build would work great when you want to rely on the kabalites as your main source of AT, say with a double CAD and 12 troop choices.

Either way, make sure that you have a plan in place, and figure out if the choice works for you in your list, but also in your local META.
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