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 1850 points pure DE

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dumpeal
Wych
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PostSubject: 1850 points pure DE   Tue Dec 20 2016, 21:49

Hi. Here is an army I want to try. I don't use much venom, because I only own 1. My 2 main opponents are Tau and Imperial gards. Dark artisan is a big chunk of my army, but I just LOVE it, so I base my strategy on it. plan on fielding everything but DA and the medusa squad, try to kill grav gun and poison weapon first and let the monster do the rest.


CAD 1

HQ- Lhamaean in venom 75

TROOPS
10 kabalite in raider, DL, SR, NS 170
10 kabalite in raider, DL, SR, NS 170

CAD 2

HQ- 2 medusae in raider. Dissie, NS 120

TROOPS
10 kabalite in raider, DL, SR, NS 170
10 kabalite in raider, DL, SR, NS 170

FAST
3 reaver, CC 63
3 reaver, CC 63
3 reaver, CC 63

HEAVY
3-lance ravager 125
3-lance ravager 125
3-lance ravager 125

FORMATION
Dark artisan 410

Cronos, spirit probe
Talos, Ichor injector, Heat lance
Haemy scisorhand, nightmare doll, WWP

1849 pts

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amorrowlyday
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PostSubject: Re: 1850 points pure DE   Tue Dec 20 2016, 22:01

Why are you taking the lahmian CAD? It provides you no FOC slots that you don't already have open in your 2nd CAD.
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aurynn
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PostSubject: Re: 1850 points pure DE   Tue Dec 20 2016, 22:14

Why 2 CADs? Just because of the extra Venom from Court?

Also SR and NS - you have total 250 pts in these upgrades... do you think they will pay off?

3-reavers squad is prone to being blown off the table or routed. I would recommend squads of 6.

Ravagers - you have only vehicles as your ranged anti-tank. They are not the toughest or easiest to peek out of cover or LOSblockers. I like bringing one, but I usually get other sources of AT. Well you have lances on the Raiders, but we all know the Lance Curse. :-D

Generally its bit spammy and I am not in favour of lists without proper HQ, but thats everyone's taste. :-)
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amorrowlyday
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PostSubject: Re: 1850 points pure DE   Tue Dec 20 2016, 22:28

The Court in the venom isn't even made possible by that spare CAD. A CAD has 2 HQ slots and 6 Troops slots. There is absolutely no need for this to be 2 CAD's.
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PostSubject: Re: 1850 points pure DE   Tue Dec 20 2016, 22:57

Huh. It was an artefact from when I wanted to use more Fast slots. I'll correct that.

For the SR and NS. Yeah, they are expensive, but SR almost double the efficiency of gunboat. And we KNOW I'll jink almost every turn with them, so better make them harder to kill. Thinking of that, I wonder if I should put DL on those raider, having them jinking. But I definitely lack AT without them (even with).
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Rewind
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PostSubject: Re: 1850 points pure DE   Tue Dec 20 2016, 23:51

Hi there,

Is this your collection or aspirational, because a empty Venom, with Cannons is almost as good, if not better at AI than your very expensive Raiders.

You've kinda spent so many points to keep 4 units alive & firing, that you could have brought 2 more:

Medusae, Cannon Venom
6 x 10 Warriors, Raiders
3 x 3 Reavers, CC
3 x Lance Ravagers
Haem, SH, Sump, WWP
Chronos, Probe
Talos, II, Lance
1849
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dumpeal
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PostSubject: Re: 1850 points pure DE   Wed Dec 21 2016, 00:34

Rewind wrote:
Hi there,

Is this your collection or aspirational, because a empty Venom, with Cannons is almost as good, if not better at AI than your very expensive Raiders.

You've kinda spent so many points to keep 4 units alive & firing, that you could have brought 2 more:

Medusae, Cannon Venom
6 x 10 Warriors, Raiders
3 x 3 Reavers, CC
3 x Lance Ravagers
Haem, SH, Sump, WWP
Chronos, Probe
Talos, II, Lance
1849

As I said in the first post, I use gunboat because I only own 1 venom. I thought that splinter rack were almost mandatory for a "healthy" gunboat. I can get rid of the night shields.
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aurynn
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PostSubject: Re: 1850 points pure DE   Wed Dec 21 2016, 07:58

The SRs do not double the efficiency of a gunboat. They increase the hit ratio by exactly 21.78% on normal shooting. You miss on 33% of cases, get reroll and hit with 67% of those 33% = 21.78%.
Not worth it outside situational alphastrike.

@ammorowlyday - Yer right. I was trying hard to divine the purpose of the 2nd CAD. I guess I went too far. :-D
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fisheyes
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PostSubject: Re: 1850 points pure DE   Wed Dec 21 2016, 12:52

Dont think I need to chime in here, others have basically covered it.

Your raiders cost as much as a Terminator squad. Or a squad of Necron Wraiths. Or a large blob of CWE scattbikes. Our tactics are not to out-shoot the enemy, its to out-position them. That is one of the many reasons to take Venoms (besides them being the best Dakka we have)
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PostSubject: Re: 1850 points pure DE   Wed Dec 21 2016, 17:15

So. Revised list:

CAD #1

Lhamaean, venom SC 75

TROOPS
10 kabalite, raider DL 140
10 kabalite, raider DL 140

Fast
4 haywire scourge 120

CAD #2

2 medusae, raider NS 120

TROOPS
10 kabalite, raider DL 140
10 kabalite, raider DL 140

FAST
3 Reavers, CC 63
3 Reavers, CC 63
3 Reavers, CC 63

Heavy
3-lance ravager 125
3-lance ravager 125
3-lance ravager 125

Formation
Dark Artisan

Cronos, Spirit probe 125
Talos, Ichor Injector, lance 135
Haemy, SH, doll, WWP 150

total 1849
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fisheyes
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PostSubject: Re: 1850 points pure DE   Wed Dec 21 2016, 19:13

Looks about right buddy. Those DL on the raiders prob wont get to fire (you will be jinking most turns), but for only 20 pts total I am sure you will survive.
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aurynn
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PostSubject: Re: 1850 points pure DE   Wed Dec 21 2016, 20:34

Take Dissies instead of DL on raiders, dont jink, deploy smart and force jinks on the enemy with dissies (scares the crap out of bikers and jetbikes).

If you let him force jinks on you, you cannot play your game. Dissies are really great. Do not underestimate them.

Otherwise could work, but I would still run 1 squad of 6 and 1 squad of 3 bikes if you only have 9. The bigger one deploys, the smaller one reserves.

I would also reserve one Ravager and the Scourges if you are about to go second.
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PostSubject: Re: 1850 points pure DE   Wed Dec 21 2016, 21:52

I have more than 9 bikes, but I don't have points for more, even if I take dissies. I don't see the benefit of a big squad, though.
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amorrowlyday
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PostSubject: Re: 1850 points pure DE   Wed Dec 21 2016, 22:46

Seconded on min squads, and if you disagree and see merits about the viability of large vs small squads I recommend taking it up with us in the reaver discussion thread that just came back to the top.

I support disintegrator cannons on your raiders whole-heartedly. I'm also of the opinion that take smaller squads with more raiders. A raider with a five man squad will put out identical firepower over 24", and within 12" as your raider will between 12" and 24". I think your raider is just as dead as mine is within 12" of the enemy so your 40pt premium isn't worth it's sticker price if that's how you intend to use them, and since I don't regard 16-20" as significantly safer than -12" for open topped AV10 vehicles I don't see the value in paying 8pts a shot to shoot 5 more shots.

If you cut every squad down to 5 person squads you could take a fifth squad with their own raider, give every squad a shredder, and figure out something to do with 40pts. If nothing else that's a 6th body in each squad.
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PostSubject: Re: 1850 points pure DE   Thu Dec 22 2016, 13:04

Reavers are one of our best units. If you have more, drop some warriors and put every reaver you have on the table!
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PostSubject: Re: 1850 points pure DE   Thu Dec 22 2016, 15:19

fisheyes wrote:
Reavers are one of our best units. If you have more, drop some warriors and put every reaver you have on the table!

I always follow the post talking about reavers with attention. But as my main opponent is Tau, he has enough markerlight/ignore cover ignore LOS weapon to hurt them hard.

I haven't played with my reavers enough to fully understand how to use them. So, I just put a little of them to learn what works and what I should avoid.
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PostSubject: Re: 1850 points pure DE   Thu Dec 22 2016, 15:29

It takes 2 ML to remove their cover. If you are using 3 squads, he will need to waste 6 ML just to remove cover (and not boost his BS). Since our entire army jinks (because we are using our transports), it will help overload his MLs. I would recomend taking as many as possible still. Possibly going for a dual CAD to maximize them.

But you know your opponents better than I, so do whatever makes you happy Wink
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aurynn
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PostSubject: Re: 1850 points pure DE   Thu Dec 22 2016, 15:32

Well you have to understand that every unit has its hard counters. Bikes are not good against Tau unless specifically tailored against them. :-)

As Fisheyes says - they are there to eat markerlights and die. :-)

You can always infiltrate 5 mandrakes to eat markerlights of theirs to get some heat off the bikes. They are annoying with their S4 AP4 shooting and 2+ cover in ruins. :-D
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PostSubject: Re: 1850 points pure DE   Thu Dec 22 2016, 16:59

I never had good result with my bikes. Maybe I just expect too much of them. I know they are only 63 pts, but still....
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amorrowlyday
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PostSubject: Re: 1850 points pure DE   Thu Dec 22 2016, 18:05

At 63 points if they took 2 rounds of shooting, or even just the focus of 2 units worth of shooting, I guarantee you they did exactly what they were supposed to do, and the problem isn't them it's what you organized around them.
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aurynn
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PostSubject: Re: 1850 points pure DE   Thu Dec 22 2016, 19:15

+1 @ammorowlyday
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