HomeDark Eldar WikiDark Eldar ResourcesNull CityFAQUsergroupsRegisterLog in

Share | 
 

 gangs of Commorragh!?

Go down 
Go to page : Previous  1, 2, 3, ... 10, 11, 12  Next
AuthorMessage
Squidmaster
Incubi
avatar

Posts : 1901
Join date : 2013-12-18
Location : Hampshire, England

PostSubject: Re: gangs of Commorragh!?   Thu Dec 22 2016, 11:26

Maybe if we're lucky.......a certain Baron?
Back to top Go down
http://www.escelionfilms.com
John M
Kabalite Warrior
avatar

Posts : 217
Join date : 2013-03-17
Location : Aberystwyth

PostSubject: Re: gangs of Commorragh!?   Thu Dec 22 2016, 14:03

that'd be really lucky
Back to top Go down
CptMetal
Trueborn
avatar

Posts : 2936
Join date : 2015-03-03
Location : Ruhr Metropolian Area

PostSubject: Re: gangs of Commorragh!?   Thu Dec 22 2016, 14:33

It would be logical. Taking away Rules of special Charakters that don't have a model so no one can copy them. And then working on campaigns that introduce the character again and includes the rules.
Back to top Go down
aurynn
Incubi


Posts : 1626
Join date : 2013-04-23

PostSubject: Re: gangs of Commorragh!?   Thu Dec 22 2016, 15:26

@RedRegicide wrote:
Hellions that can jink would be cool
Not really. They would practically lose their shooting coz everyone will be jinking them all the time and their CC is not that great. Just make them 10pts a model and they are good. :-)

Or 13 pts, skyfire option, let champ have Agoni or power weapon and HWG and make them troops. :-D
Back to top Go down
CptMetal
Trueborn
avatar

Posts : 2936
Join date : 2015-03-03
Location : Ruhr Metropolian Area

PostSubject: Re: gangs of Commorragh!?   Thu Dec 22 2016, 16:15

Do they really suck in close combat? The drug and power from Pain could make them a nice close combat unit, couldn't it?
Back to top Go down
doriii
Sybarite
avatar

Posts : 251
Join date : 2013-04-19
Location : durr

PostSubject: Re: gangs of Commorragh!?   Thu Dec 22 2016, 19:19

they can get to S6 with the right drug, furious charge and using their +1S cc weapon. sounds awesome but i would like an extra attack on them like in 5th
Back to top Go down
amorrowlyday
Hekatrix
avatar

Posts : 1305
Join date : 2015-03-15
Location : Massachusetts

PostSubject: Re: gangs of Commorragh!?   Thu Dec 22 2016, 19:47

Calling it now: if hellions get new rules, via formation or whatever, they are going to have the ability to HnR at I5. Still no grenades tho.
Back to top Go down
aurynn
Incubi


Posts : 1626
Join date : 2013-04-23

PostSubject: Re: gangs of Commorragh!?   Thu Dec 22 2016, 20:14

Well I think they are actually the worst unit in the book. However DSing (best T4-5) so they already have PFP, FC and Fearless along with a good drug roll can make them tolerable and good to hurt MCs. They are low priority target too. But at 10 men, they are kinda expensive for what they can do compared to other units and their extra options are bad. What would you rather take? 6 bikes with Cluster caltrops for 130-ish or 10 Hellions? The -1A they got this edition is a bad hit.

No grenades I can live with but... Everything they do can someone else do better.
Back to top Go down
amorrowlyday
Hekatrix
avatar

Posts : 1305
Join date : 2015-03-15
Location : Massachusetts

PostSubject: Re: gangs of Commorragh!?   Thu Dec 22 2016, 20:34

They aren't, and I need people to stop saying they are because it totally erases the actual worst unit in the book: Bloodbrides.

If you're taking a 10 body unit of hellions you're doing it wrong. 20 bodies or bust. Anything less than than 15 and everything but bloodbrides are better. The only reason to take hellions is the combo of HnR and a 20 wound pool for a Corsair Void Dreamer and Prince. For the points they are the best non-bike HnR vehicle for corsair characters. In order to make Players more killy you need to spend gobs of points, you spent more points and still need more bodies if you opt for Baharroth, and if you take bikes and a void dreamer you're moving bikes at infantry pace.

Hellions are good at 1 thing, and 1 thing only: wrapping paper for mobile, high damage output characters. Hellions come to mind as the worst thing in the book because we don't have any of those.

Bloodbrides don't come to mind because they actually are the worst.
Back to top Go down
aurynn
Incubi


Posts : 1626
Join date : 2013-04-23

PostSubject: Re: gangs of Commorragh!?   Thu Dec 22 2016, 21:00

Ah well... Since they were made an upgrade and not an actual standalone unit, I tend to overlook them as DL on Scourges. :-D However I confess I used them once and they were quite good.

I hate to label an unit "worst" and I shouldnt use this with any unit, even bloodbrides. I have Hellions. I love the models. But the truth is that I never played them as a giftbomb wrapping. :-) So out of the roles I tried them for, they were ... well... underwhelming.

Spending 260 pts to wrap a character... I am not even comfortable with using Land Raider with marines... :-) But at least they do have some application.
Back to top Go down
Skulnbonz
Wych
avatar

Posts : 729
Join date : 2012-07-13
Location : Tampa

PostSubject: Re: gangs of Commorragh!?   Thu Dec 22 2016, 21:51

If we were to sit here and list the "worst" units in the codex, we will be here a while.
Lets just all agree on:
"Everything except warriors, Raiders, Reavers and Venoms".

everything.

_________________
ATTITUDE: It is the difference between an ORDEAL and an ADVENTURE!
Back to top Go down
http://www.fantasybattles.com
CptMetal
Trueborn
avatar

Posts : 2936
Join date : 2015-03-03
Location : Ruhr Metropolian Area

PostSubject: Re: gangs of Commorragh!?   Thu Dec 22 2016, 22:20

I'd use Hellions as beast masters. Fast, cheaper and good fire power.
Back to top Go down
Ignatius J. Reilly
Slave
avatar

Posts : 12
Join date : 2016-12-08
Location : Charlotte NC

PostSubject: Re: gangs of Commorragh!?   Fri Dec 23 2016, 05:46

@Skulnbonz wrote:
If we were to sit here and list the "worst" units in the codex, we will be here a while.
Lets just all agree on:
"Everything except warriors, Raiders, Reavers and Venoms".

everything.

The Talos would like a word with you
Back to top Go down
Evil Space Elves
Haemonculus Ancient
avatar

Posts : 3710
Join date : 2011-07-13
Location : Santa Cruz, ca

PostSubject: Re: gangs of Commorragh!?   Fri Dec 23 2016, 05:53

@Ignatius J. Reilly wrote:
@Skulnbonz wrote:
If we were to sit here and list the "worst" units in the codex, we will be here a while.
Lets just all agree on:
"Everything except warriors, Raiders, Reavers and Venoms".

everything.

The Talos would like a word with you
Grotesques would also be in line to add their two cents as well. Twisted Evil

_________________

"Solutions are good, how many dark eldar archons can you find sitting in their throne rooms whining that they used to rule the universe? Exactly."  -The Burning Eye
Splintermind: The Dark Eldar Podcast
My Dark Eldar Project Log
Back to top Go down
Skulnbonz
Wych
avatar

Posts : 729
Join date : 2012-07-13
Location : Tampa

PostSubject: Re: gangs of Commorragh!?   Fri Dec 23 2016, 14:42

So, should I be amused or depressed that out of the what, 20+ units there may be some argument for 2 more than the 4 I named as being "not garbage"

_________________
ATTITUDE: It is the difference between an ORDEAL and an ADVENTURE!
Back to top Go down
http://www.fantasybattles.com
CptMetal
Trueborn
avatar

Posts : 2936
Join date : 2015-03-03
Location : Ruhr Metropolian Area

PostSubject: Re: gangs of Commorragh!?   Fri Dec 23 2016, 16:02

So it's Warriors, Venom, Raider, true born, scourges, grotesques, succubus, archon, Lheamean, Ravager, Reaver, arguably the razor wing, mandrake, talos and chronos.
That's not too few.
Back to top Go down
Draco
Kabalite Warrior
avatar

Posts : 211
Join date : 2016-02-01
Location : Chicago

PostSubject: Re: gangs of Commorragh!?   Fri Dec 23 2016, 16:23

@CptMetal wrote:
So it's Warriors, Venom, Raider, true born, scourges, grotesques, succubus, archon, Lheamean, Ravager, Reaver, arguably the razor wing, mandrake, talos and chronos.
That's not too few.

I wonder what this would look like compared to the Space Marine Codex. I know they get like 10 HQ choices, and another 8 Elites.
Back to top Go down
Logan Frost
Sybarite
avatar

Posts : 450
Join date : 2016-01-25

PostSubject: Re: gangs of Commorragh!?   Fri Dec 23 2016, 17:21

@CptMetal wrote:
So it's Warriors, Venom, Raider, true born, scourges, grotesques, succubus, archon, Lheamean, Ravager, Reaver, arguably the razor wing, mandrake, talos and chronos.
That's not too few.
And medusae and sslyths.

This is getting Monty Pythonesque.
Back to top Go down
amorrowlyday
Hekatrix
avatar

Posts : 1305
Join date : 2015-03-15
Location : Massachusetts

PostSubject: Re: gangs of Commorragh!?   Fri Dec 23 2016, 19:01

Clawed fiends, Razorwing flocks, and Voidravens.
Back to top Go down
CptMetal
Trueborn
avatar

Posts : 2936
Join date : 2015-03-03
Location : Ruhr Metropolian Area

PostSubject: Re: gangs of Commorragh!?   Fri Dec 23 2016, 19:20

Void Ravens? I'm not sure about them...
Back to top Go down
BetrayTheWorld
In Exile


Posts : 2665
Join date : 2013-04-04

PostSubject: Re: gangs of Commorragh!?   Fri Dec 23 2016, 19:21

@CptMetal wrote:
So it's Warriors, Venom, Raider, true born, scourges, grotesques, succubus, archon, Lheamean, Ravager, Reaver, arguably the razor wing, mandrake, talos and chronos.
That's not too few.

Not complete garbage doesn't exactly equal "Good". Against the 40k meta as a whole, most of this is just "meh, it's ok."

¤¥¤¥¤¤¥¤¥¤¤¥¤¥¤¤¥¤¥¤¤¥¤¥¤¤¥¤¥¤¤¥¤¥¤¤¥¤¥¤¤¥¤¥¤¤¥¤¥¤¤¥¤¥¤¤¥¤¥¤¤¥¤¥¤¤¥¤¥¤

Thesis statement/TLDR:
The only units there that are "Good" in the current 40k meta are Grots, venoms, and reavers. No
other model's rules would be enough to compel a logical, good 40k player to add DE to their
repertoire if they didn't already own DE.


¤¥¤¥¤¤¥¤¥¤¤¥¤¥¤¤¥¤¥¤¤¥¤¥¤¤¥¤¥¤¤¥¤¥¤¤¥¤¥¤¤¥¤¥¤¤¥¤¥¤¤¥¤¥¤¤¥¤¥¤¤¥¤¥¤¤¥¤¥¤

Everything else on the list, something from another faction can do their job better, cheaper, or both.

Even Talos aren't that great compared to other MCs available to other factions. They're merely "OK".

All these MCs from other factions could kill equal or greater points worth of Talos:

Necron - C'tan Shard of the Nightbringer, Transcendent C'tan
Chaos Daemons - Pretty much every named daemon or daemon prince equipped for combat
Eldar - Wraithknights & Wraithlords
Tau - Ghostkeels, Riptides & Storm surges
Tyranid - Swarmlord, Hive Tyrant, Carnifex

That is the company Talos keeps. Those are the Talos' peers. That is what you're comparing to when you decide whether or not Talos are "Good".

And that's without even considering all of the non monstrous creatures various factions have that can deal with Talos handily, such as a basic space marine with a grav cannon, or walkers.
Back to top Go down
amorrowlyday
Hekatrix
avatar

Posts : 1305
Join date : 2015-03-15
Location : Massachusetts

PostSubject: Re: gangs of Commorragh!?   Fri Dec 23 2016, 19:58

Comparisons to GMC's are inappropriate, and you ignore the opportunity cost modifier imposed by the 3 detachment limit.

A single talos has more utility than a carnifex or a riptide.
Back to top Go down
BetrayTheWorld
In Exile


Posts : 2665
Join date : 2013-04-04

PostSubject: Re: gangs of Commorragh!?   Fri Dec 23 2016, 21:11

@amorrowlyday wrote:
Comparisons to GMC's are inappropriate, and you ignore the opportunity cost modifier imposed by the 3 detachment limit.

A single talos has more utility than a carnifex or a riptide.

There is only 1 GMC in there, and it costs roughly the same as 2 Talos w/Ichor injectors, and will kill them both and ask for seconds. It's a big part of the meta right now, and certainly should be part of the conversation when discussing how anything in the meta is objectively "good".

And Talos having more utility than a riptide??? Really??? Shocked

A riptide can kill almost anything at long range(including a Talos), is similar toughness to a Talos, can kill almost all non-character infantry or tanks in CC, and gets jetpack mobility. I fail to see how a Talos has more utility.

There is no 3 detachment limit, except in specific tournament formats.

That said, I'm not sure what opportunity cost you're referring to. If you're talking about the opportunity cost of not taking the Talos option when you're already playing DE, thus taking up a very important detachment slot to fill a role the Talos could fill, I'm not arguing that at all. If you're playing DE, by all means, take a Talos if you have a need for one. They aren't BAD, they just aren't objectively GOOD.

What I mean by that is basically my thesis statement in my last post that I worked very hard to highlight so that I wouldn't really have to keep referring back to it. Essentially what I'm saying is this:

If you took all the units from all the factions in 40k that fulfilled a similar job as Talos, I expect that Talos would be somewhere around the middle of the pack in value/cost ratio. That means they're an average unit in the meta, whereas Wraithknights and Scatterbikes are objectively "good" units, being above the average/median in value/cost ratio.

Things like riptides, wraithknights, scatterbikes, grav cannons, farseers, d-scythes, and hornets are things you would consider taking if you had unlimited money, time, and models from all factions because they're "good" and would make almost any list better. Talos, on the other hand, are a perfectly sufficient tool who are more than capable of performing their job, IF you're already a dark eldar player.

There's just no real non-style reason to pick Talos over other MCs available in other factions. They're not bad. They're just not stand out good either.

Of course, as DE players who are accustomed to being starved for decent units, it seems awesome. I hear ratburger tastes like filet mignon when you're starving, though. Wink
Back to top Go down
stevethedestroyeofworlds
Kabalite Warrior
avatar

Posts : 171
Join date : 2016-05-22

PostSubject: Re: gangs of Commorragh!?   Fri Dec 23 2016, 21:35

@BetrayTheWorld wrote:

Tyranid - Swarmlord, Hive Tyrant, Carnifex
Are you sure?
The Swarmlord and Flyrants sure, but the Carnifex?
Doesn't it lack decent shooting, and lack the ability to stand toe to toe with a Talos?

_________________
"Enemies are everywhere. Wisdom comes from knowing which ones to eliminate first"-Asdrubael Vect
Back to top Go down
Count Adhemar
Dark Lord of Granbretan
avatar

Posts : 7214
Join date : 2012-04-26
Location : London

PostSubject: Re: gangs of Commorragh!?   Fri Dec 23 2016, 22:08

@stevethedestroyeofworlds wrote:
@BetrayTheWorld wrote:

Tyranid - Swarmlord, Hive Tyrant, Carnifex
Are you sure?
The Swarmlord and Flyrants sure, but the Carnifex?
Doesn't it lack decent shooting, and lack the ability to stand toe to toe with a Talos?

It can certainly be equipped for shooting as it can take two twin-linked devourers with brainleech worms, ie the same armament as a Flyrant. And 3 S9, AP2 attacks in melee plus D3 S9 HoW hits is not to be sneezed at.

_________________

You have been weighed, you have been measured, and you have been found wanting. In what world could you possibly beat me?
Back to top Go down
Sponsored content




PostSubject: Re: gangs of Commorragh!?   

Back to top Go down
 
gangs of Commorragh!?
Back to top 
Page 2 of 12Go to page : Previous  1, 2, 3, ... 10, 11, 12  Next

Permissions in this forum:You cannot reply to topics in this forum
THE DARK CITY :: 

GENERAL DRUKHARI DISCUSSION

 :: News & Rumours
-
Jump to: