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 1850pts tournament CTC with Eldar Allies, now featuring Grotesqurie

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BetrayTheWorld
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PostSubject: Re: 1850pts tournament CTC with Eldar Allies, now featuring Grotesqurie   Thu Jan 26 2017, 04:50

Hopefully they put him in a unit that doesn't have good invuln saves, and you can just erase the unit with a WG suckerpunch. Looking forward to hearing how it goes!
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WildCandy
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PostSubject: Re: 1850pts tournament CTC with Eldar Allies, now featuring Grotesqurie   Thu Jan 26 2017, 04:57

As I understood He can have personally 4++ from canticles and he can also use that special canticle for other units with canticles in the army, once per game. Or in war convo maybe twice.

Ill make somekind of batrep outta it.
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WildCandy
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PostSubject: Re: 1850pts tournament CTC with Eldar Allies, now featuring Grotesqurie   Thu Jan 26 2017, 09:06

Checked, it can't use the specific canticles twice. So only two rows of shrouded and one invu.
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BetrayTheWorld
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PostSubject: Re: 1850pts tournament CTC with Eldar Allies, now featuring Grotesqurie   Thu Jan 26 2017, 15:47

The shrouded won't help against the WG bomb, so you might want to try to trick him into using the invuln canticles before they arrive.
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WildCandy
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PostSubject: Re: 1850pts tournament CTC with Eldar Allies, now featuring Grotesqurie   Thu Jan 26 2017, 17:37

Yes, If I get first turn and he'd use invu, I would try to postpone the scythes arrical to turn 3, if he uses something else bring turn 2. If he'd get first turn I can act accordingly.
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WildCandy
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PostSubject: Re: 1850pts tournament CTC with Eldar Allies, now featuring Grotesqurie   Thu Feb 02 2017, 07:57

Hi,

Short recap on the game versus Admech.

The opponent brought warconvo with Cawl and IK with avenger gatling cannon, ironstorm rocket pod and sword.
Other specialities were Memento-Mortispex on Rangers which gives until the start of your next turn: cognis Weapons, Monster Hunter, Skyfire or Tank Hunters. Which is good AA with rapid fire Arc rifles. Rest of the units had all kinds of special wargear.

The servitors were with gravs and flamers. Cawl joined one of the Kataphron servitors creating group of 4 (Cawl + 3 servitors).

Depo was Vanguard strike. In the middle was huge line of sight blocking building. Enemy rolled to choose depo side (he chose the one with better cover and so that I got the lease cover (one low rubbled building), but on the other hand I received about 12"-16" area around my bunker of free kill zone without good cover.
Enemy rolled warlord trait as -reserves, and rolled to depo first and go first.
I rolled with warlord trait with rerolls to -reserves as well, which did nothing to me.
Spells I rolled / chose for the psykers were shriek and conveal/reveal.
Grots received shred.

He depoed all, except Corpuscarii ?Electro-priests? that infiltrated near by in a building.
I depoed bunker, vauls wraths, one group of Scatter lasersx2 + and TL shuriken catapult bike, grots in raiders and dark reapers inside.

I rolled seize and seized with "5" as per the escalation rules.
1a) First turn went quite uneventful, I removed some grav Kataphron servitors, Rust stalkers, flat outted grots in raiders forward. One went to middle field aiming for the rangers and the other towards Skitarii vanguard(with warlord) and onager.
1b) Return fire removed Bike squad, one raider from HOW of the knight and hp and weapon destroyed on the other raider. He chose 4++ from Cawls canticles. (as expected)
2a) I rolled for reserves, all came in except one bike group.
Scythes removed the group with Cawl excepting one Kataphron destoyer, grots moved a bit, other group aimed at the Vanguard. Psychics did nothing due low rolls on the shrieks. Hemlock removed 2 hp's from knight, Electropriests were killed with combined shooting of Vauls wrath catapults, windriders and dark reapers (3+ cover). War walker missed all shots, Hornets score one glancing hit on Sydonian Dragoon. In Close combat the Grots killed 7, getting one wound them selves against the Vanguard, they lost iniative test (both rolled 1) wiping the enemy.
2b) Lot of return fire removing lot of my units, list of casulties in shooting: group of grots, raider, 3 Wraith guard, 2 hp off autarch, 1 hp off haemy, one hp and immo on jinking hornet. In melee Rust stalkers and knight charged the other group of grots, killing two while grots did not do much 1 wound back.
3a) Bikes decide to stay on reserves by rolling "1" twice.
I try to go for the jugular wiping rest of the Kataphron's off the table, Dragoon, only one ranger with hemlock rolling bad on scatters and not getting shriek through. Nothing much happens, I have been drawing maelstorm cards that were very hard to achieve (objects in opponents end while +2 cover units sitting on top of them etc.) The Grots are wiped in the close combat.
3b) Admech is running low on units: Onager, 4 rangers, one rust stalker princeps is on the table with IK. Rangers choose skyfire from Memento-Mortispex and shoot hemlock from the sky. Rest of the shooting does nothing except forces one hornet to jink (hornets are now different units as the one with immo has been left behind).
4a) I destroy IK and rust stalker, score nothing
4b) Opponent shakes hands.

In the end opponent held 1 objective, I held 3, I had slay the warlord and line breaker. On turn as the enemy hand two units left tabling or just rushing with two bike squads to his 'home' objective would have been possible. In the end game as I depoed dark reapers and vauls wrath far in the table they were not able to get good shots. On the other hand failed to seize it was my only 'fail' safe left to keep IK and other melee units from charging.

The turn point in a way was the Dscythe strike on the Cawl, which was ruled that he did not get FNP against the d-scythe d-1 templates. the 4++ didn't save him as he had 3 guys in the group to increase the number of hits. I only got 14 but rolled very well on the damage charts.

Summary:
Bad maelstorms, but we tied or I won due Warlord kill, killing the IK and scoring a couple during the course of game.
I won eternal war
Kill points I won

So very good practice game. Good result. I rolled badly on the psychics and didn't get to leverage the -1ld from grotesquerie and -2ld from hemlock for fear tests, but this leaves room to do 'better' in the dice department.

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BetrayTheWorld
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PostSubject: Re: 1850pts tournament CTC with Eldar Allies, now featuring Grotesqurie   Thu Feb 02 2017, 08:27

Nice! Sounds like the list performed, even if your dice failed you a few times! That's what we like to hear! Very Happy

Your main tournament is next, right? How many rounds is it, and when does it take place?
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WildCandy
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PostSubject: Re: 1850pts tournament CTC with Eldar Allies, now featuring Grotesqurie   Thu Feb 02 2017, 10:55

Thank you and without your support I wouldn't be in this position I'd say.

The main tournament is 25th to 26th of February, 5 games in total. I will try to get one more train game inbetween then and now but might be that I have no time.
I am bit on the edge still that I can not play the list as fast as supposed.

Yeah, I think in a way that I received the short straw on everything else except the Seize 'dice' rolls, if things go even slightly better I am much better off in the tournament. Maybe bit more better spells, better shriek rolls, better 'drug' for grots and get to utilize the -ld shenigans. Hopefully.

I didn't take too many pictures of last nights game as I was so concentrated what was happening. Not enough pics material for good batrep Neutral

I am pondering the placement of the Autarch in the list. In the D scythe group he works quite well as a Invu tanker after deep strike, but I am not totally sure if that is the best place for him. Not that there is much better places on the other hand.

Cheers!
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BetrayTheWorld
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PostSubject: Re: 1850pts tournament CTC with Eldar Allies, now featuring Grotesqurie   Thu Feb 02 2017, 18:48

@WildCandy wrote:
I am bit on the edge still that I can not play the list as fast as supposed.

What do you mean by this? I don't understand.

@WildCandy wrote:
I am pondering the placement of the Autarch in the list. In the D scythe group he works quite well as a Invu tanker after deep strike, but I am not totally sure if that is the best place for him.

I think that is probably the best spot for him. It keeps him protected from dying before they come in from reserve(important), provides the ability for him to tank with his invuln for the unit after they arrive, and if he survives allows him to subsequently split off and tie up a different unit in melee and deny overwatch.

@WildCandy wrote:
Thank you and without your support I wouldn't be in this position I'd say.

You are very welcome! I'm glad I could help!
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WildCandy
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PostSubject: Re: 1850pts tournament CTC with Eldar Allies, now featuring Grotesqurie   Thu Feb 02 2017, 19:03

@WildCandy wrote:
I am bit on the edge still that I can not play the list as fast as supposed.

"What do you mean by this? I don't understand."

I meant that the tournament has timelimit on the per game length. If I play too slowly I do not get to turn 5 before the game is forced to end. I tend to compare and calculate my moves due lack of practical experience sometimes making the turns longer. Good thing that I am now getting somekind of battle plan that I can follow in normal situation and only variate per special need.

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BetrayTheWorld
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PostSubject: Re: 1850pts tournament CTC with Eldar Allies, now featuring Grotesqurie   Thu Feb 02 2017, 19:11

@WildCandy wrote:
@WildCandy wrote:
   I am bit on the edge still that I can not play the list as fast as supposed.

"What do you mean by this? I don't understand."

I meant that the tournament has timelimit on the per game length. If I play too slowly I do not get to turn 5 before the game is forced to end. I tend to compare and calculate my moves due lack of practical experience sometimes making the turns longer. Good thing that I am now getting somekind of battle plan that I can follow in normal situation and only variate per special need.


Ah, ok. I completely understand this and sometimes have the same issue with new army lists.
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WildCandy
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PostSubject: First day report   Sat Feb 25 2017, 19:36

First game
Black legion with terminator annihilation force
end 3b, Victory 18-0 maximum points per round 20. all units except demon prince and 2 obliterators and sorcerer were terminators. Demon prince and 2 small groupsof termnators were left alive. I had lost 3 vauls wrath gunners and and gun.

second game against demons of nurgle with some demon lord that allowed to take demon princes as heavy support.ended 4b 20-2 victory.

Last game was against Tau
tie 11-11, horrid game. I was more or less tabled vut because tau player took 1+h to finish his first turn game time ended and i was avle to grab relic. I went second and was annihilated badly in lot of los sight blocking envipnmwnt from sms, cluster missiles and interceptor. I played "wrong", I should have reserved more much more to make his shooting more ineffectual as I was going second. lot to learn from this game like hate of fish on ti
op of my allergy.

49/60 points is the first days saldo.
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BetrayTheWorld
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PostSubject: Re: 1850pts tournament CTC with Eldar Allies, now featuring Grotesqurie   Sat Feb 25 2017, 21:16

Sounds like you were on a roll till you hit that Tau army! Still, I imagine that at 49/60, you're probably still in the running for the finals, assuming they're doing finals.

Good job! Good luck! And keep us posted! Very Happy
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WildCandy
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PostSubject: Re: 1850pts tournament CTC with Eldar Allies, now featuring Grotesqurie   Sun Feb 26 2017, 19:10

second day

i lost to necron wraiths list with two nightscythes, immortals two barges with warriors and some melta walkers 0-20. I rolled to start,got seized with 6. Lost one bike from two groups, failed ld, on my turn they did not regroup and flew off the table. I was ineffectual in my shooting phases and got swamped in the end.

secong game was against eldar cad with wk, falcons, dark reapers, guardians, crimson hunter, fire dragons and wraith lord coupled with wraith guard with scythes. won 20-4. Mostly out playing the opponent. Funny thing happened in this game. I lost hemlock to perils, rolling 1 and following 11 in ld test.

I'll write my take on the list later, I feel portions did not deliver as
grots
spiritseer

scythe bomb worked quite well against expensive targets, but against msu not so much. Also the list lacked men, jetbikes are extremely good but 3 per group can melt in an instant.

ah yeah, I placed 3rd, with 89 points out of 120, next first and second were the necron player and tau payer with 93 points. So close Smile

Thanks for joining me on this journey, and I will write in detail list review later.
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BetrayTheWorld
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PostSubject: Re: 1850pts tournament CTC with Eldar Allies, now featuring Grotesqurie   Sun Feb 26 2017, 20:03

Looking forward to hearing more! I normally don't start my jetbikes on the table for just that reason, or I start them completely hidden from view.

Necrons are generally pretty tough opponents, but I'd think the D-weapons would have helped. I'm interested in hearing how that happened the way it did.

How many people were in the tournament, anyhow?
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WildCandy
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PostSubject: Re: 1850pts tournament CTC with Eldar Allies, now featuring Grotesqurie   Mon Feb 27 2017, 07:31

18 people

I had not faced necrons before so I did not have a clear view on what did what and on what effective level. I feel like I bit froze when the two bikes flew out. And got back on the game mid turn 2 or so. The opponent also didn't follow all rules per se that had been faq'd of which some we replayed backwards e.g. movement with transports, auras to/into vehicles (+bs in this case). [which he had played wrong whole tournament] But I will give more detailed explanation especially on that game and try to gather something out of the tau game as well as they were quite a learning experiences.

On hindsight I could have got ~4 points out of the necron game by playing more on the tertiary missions.

BTW. I got also corrected, I thought that flamer template can wound and kill outside it's range. Only blast weapons have explicitly ruled that you can but the template weapon does not. So the furthest units that can be killed with flamer template is 8,3" or so...
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BetrayTheWorld
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PostSubject: Re: 1850pts tournament CTC with Eldar Allies, now featuring Grotesqurie   Mon Feb 27 2017, 08:13

That's true on the flamer template range, but remember that the entire unit gets the benefit of the longest ranged template, since you resolve all of them at the same time.

Third place is still very good for 18 people tournament! Congrats!

I wonder how much different it would have turned out if you reserved your jetbikes that game. Looking forward to reading your full report! Very Happy
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PostSubject: Re: 1850pts tournament CTC with Eldar Allies, now featuring Grotesqurie   Mon Feb 27 2017, 13:58

Where does it say you resolve all templates at once? Or did you mean all templates from the same type of weapon?
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BetrayTheWorld
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PostSubject: Re: 1850pts tournament CTC with Eldar Allies, now featuring Grotesqurie   Mon Feb 27 2017, 14:57

We're specifically talking about a unit of d-scythe wraithguard, so I was referring to the fact that they're all the same type of weapon.
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Count Adhemar
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PostSubject: Re: 1850pts tournament CTC with Eldar Allies, now featuring Grotesqurie   Mon Feb 27 2017, 15:03

In more general terms though, you resolve each weapon type individually and if you've killed all the models in range of one type of template weapon then you're out of luck with any other template weapons you then fire.

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PostSubject: Re: 1850pts tournament CTC with Eldar Allies, now featuring Grotesqurie   Mon Feb 27 2017, 17:08

@Count Adhemar wrote:
In more general terms though, you resolve each weapon type individually and if you've killed all the models in range of one type of template weapon then you're out of luck with any other template weapons you then fire.

Sure, but most units don't have multiple types of template weapons. I can't even think of one...oh, certain types of space marines with a flamer and a sarge with a hand flamer or combi-flamer. So I guess there IS a situation in which that difference in explanation might matter to someone. Wink

In most cases though, multiple templates benefit from being able to wound anything that any template in the unit could reach.
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PostSubject: Re: 1850pts tournament CTC with Eldar Allies, now featuring Grotesqurie   Mon Feb 27 2017, 17:12

If you're a Salamanders or Deathwatch player I think it's fairly common. Flamers, heavy flamers, that shotgun that uses a template: it's always been common for some, and it's getting more common.
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PostSubject: Re: 1850pts tournament CTC with Eldar Allies, now featuring Grotesqurie   Mon Feb 27 2017, 17:14

You know, oddly enough, I don't think I've ever played a salamanders player.

Anyhow, let's not get WildCandy's thread too far off topic. I'm looking forward to his reports, and don't want to bloat the thread with needless debate over trivial matters of no importance to the thread topic.
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PostSubject: Re: 1850pts tournament CTC with Eldar Allies, now featuring Grotesqurie   Tue Feb 28 2017, 20:06

Hi all!

you can find tournament recap under the link:
https://docs.google.com/presentation/d/1wnEiJ5BLTNxxfUrKqmuL0eAnYRsCaNvjKarj2NJ6Fhg/edit?usp=sharing

It is made mostly for myself. So if you get something out of it great! I made it for myself to look critically on the tactics / movements I made in the games, so I can reflect and identify situations in the next games better. I took more time on games 3 and 4 which were the tie and drastic loss.

I want to thank for your support, it is nice to notice many people are following up.

Please do comment if something comes to your mind. I look forward to next tournament and iterate the list/playstyle further.

The list received lot of positive comments on the 'theme' of combining Dark eldar into to it and not being the generic WK + aspect host and serpents list.
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PostSubject: Re: 1850pts tournament CTC with Eldar Allies, now featuring Grotesqurie   Wed Mar 01 2017, 04:56

First off, very cool bunker conversion! Did you make that? Very Happy

I agree that if he didn't double the interceptor shots, that might have altered the game significantly. Also, losing both hornets so quickly hurt. That said, I think you made a mistake that worked out in your favor too, unless your tournament altered the way relics work in their tournament.

Normally, you can only "claim" the relic at the end of your movement phase, which means that you wouldn't be able to claim it after turbo boosting, because turbo boost happens in the shooting phase.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Against the necrons....I need to look this up to be sure, but I think wounds lost due to instant death might still count towards end of combat determination of the victor. Also, shouldn't your grots have been fearless, since it was turn 2 and they were from a grotesquerie? So they shouldn't have been swept, right?

Also, it actually looks like you might have been able to avoid your jetbikes being shot by this army just by placing your bikes a little further back. Necrons are sort of known for their 24" range shooting, so I assume if you would have placed them a bit safer, you wouldn't have had that 1st turn retreat, which would have made a huge difference in your scoring for that game.

WildCandy's Report wrote:
Going for points I should have ds behind the Overlord’s group and get the warlord kill by flaming them.

I agree with this. Based on the layout and target options, this was probably the best target.

I also agree with your general "thoughts on game 4". Some very good lessons there. I remember the specific game that taught me to "always play to the mission and points". It's easy to get caught up in trying to kill stuff, to the detriment of your score. Wink

I think this is mostly a loss due to having not had much experience playing necrons. Those wraiths are pretty nasty in melee, but grots can definitely take them once they're fearless. It probably would have been best to basically sort of slow-play for a turn against this opponent, keeping your models back towards your table edge during your deployment, and out of the wraith's assault range till your grots get fearless on turn 2. I don't know if you made a typo in your writeup about when the grots were assaulted, or if you didn't realize they became fearless on turn 2. If it was the latter, I think your opinion of how the grots worked might have changed.
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