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 Are wracks any good?

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40kScribe
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PostSubject: Re: Are wracks any good?   Sat Dec 24 2016, 04:06

@Ynneadwraith wrote:
What's the points cost for these poxwalker cultists?

20 points for the Poxwalker Hive chaos artifact.

To make a simple comparison of two similar groups of units, we could line up twenty Poxwalkers, a cheap-o sorcerer and a Helbrute and see how they stack up against the Scarlet Epicureans. Note that the chaos artifact (the Poxwalker Hive) must come from the Death Guard Detachment and as such the cultists must be given the Mark of Nurgle.

Chaos Space Marines: Death Guard Detachment (325)

H.Q.: 80
- Sorcerer + Poxwalker Hive = 80

Troops: 140
- 10x Chaos Cultists + the Mark of Nurgle
- 10x Chaos Cultists + the Mark of Nurgle

Elites: 105
- Helbrute

We could then line that up and compare it to the Scarlet Epicureans:

Scarlet Epicureans (395)
- Haemonculus
- Cronos + Spirit probe
- 10x Wracks
- 10x Wracks

Right off the bat we can see that the Dark Eldar are paying 70 points more for a similar set-up. To keep things simple, we could average out the points cost of each model as such:
- Zombies & friends: 325 points divided by 22 models = 14.7 points per model
- the Epicureans: 395 points divided by 22 models = 17.9 points per model

I love the Wrack models and really want to make them work, but unfortunately the average points cost compared to hiring allied zombies just doesn't compare. But let's take a closer look. Once again for the sake of simplicity I'll stick to comparing zombies to wracks.

The Poxwalkers:
- T4
- Fearless
- 2 attacks base
- 6+ save
- FnP (5+)
- Cannot run
- Cannot make shooting attacks
- Objective Secured and return D3 slain models per turn to the unit
- Must walk across the board or take a Land Raider
- Max unit size: 35 models


Wracks in the Epicurean formation:
- T4
- Fearless
- 2 attacks base
- 6+ save
- FnP (4+)
- Can run
- Can make shooting attacks (example: liquifier guns)
- Not objective secured, Night Vision, Precision Strike and Freakish Spectacle  
- Can be more mobile: Webway portals, Venoms and Raiders
- Max unit size: 10 models


Once again I feel as though the zombies win again: they're slow and a little weaker due to FnP (5+) rather than FnP (4+), but they're objective secured and similar to the old Necrons, they can get back up. Not only that but it's better than the Necrons in the sense that as long as the unit is still standing (and within 7" of the bearer of the Poxwalker Hive), they're guaranteed to to keep getting back up (D3 per turn). This is done "at the beginning of your turn" and (so far) doesn't matter if you're in close combat or not! Amazing! Very Happy Oh yeah and don't forget that the zombies are objective-secured!

However there is some things to be learned from this little experiment. For example we can see that they can be used in similar ways as zombies:
- Can be used as tarpits
- The Scarlet Epicureans can be used as a distraction unit
- Wracks can be used to bubble-wrap another unit
- Just like Cultists and the uber cheap-o Ork Boyz escorting a nob with a Power Klaw, Wracks can be used to escort a close combat beast although truth be told I'd rather use a Webway Portal and some Wyches or Kabalite Warriors for that.

I'll readily admit that all the ideas I've shared so far aren't really competitive, but the way I see it is that if we throw ideas out there it could generate new (and possibly more powerful) ideas, tactics and/or strategies. Personally I think that Wracks are best used for camping objectives if you're expecting the position to come under threat. For this reason I really feel that GW messed up by not making these guys Troops because without objective-secured, it's easy to think of better objective-campers such as Mandrakes, Kabalite Warriors in Venoms or allied Windrider Jetbikes.

One thing I will say about the Wracks is that they're more deadly. For example they can have the (in)famous liquifier guns and strike at Initiative 4 rather than Initiative 2 (due to the Gifts of Nurgle special rule).  

In any case, 'tis a sad day for Wracks. I'd love to field them, and GW put a lot of love into those sculpts but if only they had the ob-sec rule then I'd take them. : /


Last edited by 40kScribe on Sat Dec 24 2016, 17:28; edited 9 times in total
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amorrowlyday
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PostSubject: Re: Are wracks any good?   Sat Dec 24 2016, 04:20

Grotesques. Grotesques do everything your suggesting alternatives for and cost 11.6pts per wound for S5T5 bodies with all the same buffs as wracks. That translates to a 1.6pt per wound premium for +2S/+1T, rampage, and the lethal dose USR. If you can't bring more to the table in some manner Grotesques do it better.
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PostSubject: Re: Are wracks any good?   Sat Dec 24 2016, 04:23

@amorrowlyday wrote:
Grotesques. Grotesques do everything your suggesting alternatives for and cost 11.6pts per wound for S5T5 bodies with all the same buffs as wracks. That translates to a 1.6pt per wound premium for +2S/+1T, rampage, and the lethal dose USR. If you can't bring more to the table in some manner Grotesques do it better.

I absolutely agree. I'm just trying to answer the question: "Are Wracks any good?" by comparing them to zombies. In my opinion they're only good in fun games, nothing even mildly competitive : /
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Ynneadwraith
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PostSubject: Re: Are wracks any good?   Sat Dec 24 2016, 10:41

Great analysis Smile

So, the answer seems to be that they're not good enough to be competitive (against other codices, or against Grotesques), but they're definitely not unusable (and have some utility allowing null deployment in the Scalpel Squadron).

I take it there aren't any Coven formations that make them Obsec...

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PostSubject: Re: Are wracks any good?   Sun Dec 25 2016, 05:58

Scalpel squadron is pretty good, as mentioned above.

And i just don`t get why they are not concidered as troops, when you pick them as a part of coven suppl? Or if u pick haemi as your HQ by regular codex. I know that everyone can hold an objective this days, but wraks as a troops seems so logical, when haemi leed your army

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PostSubject: Re: Are wracks any good?   Sun Dec 25 2016, 06:01

That's easy. It's because when our book came out IC's making certain units change FOC role had been scrapped in favor of detachments that gave you more of the FOC slots for the things you actually want to use. 6 troop slots and 6 FA in a RRD for FA and Troops, and Covenite Coterie for elites. Too bad that mentality makes grotesques therefore better in every way.
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