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Ignatius J. Reilly
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PostSubject: Building a force/general help   Thu Dec 08 2016, 01:09

So I'm back to playing 40k for the first time since 5th edition. Starting from scratch so to speak. I have an old 5th edition battleforce that I just completed and will be getting the "start collecting" box for christmas. My question is really how to put all of these together in an effective way. I only really have $30 to buy one more unit before chirstmas, So I was wondering what I should add to get as many points on the field as possible. I'm half tempted to get a third raider so I can field my three troops choices, but I have this sinking feeling that wouldn't go over well. I know everyone says wyches are pretty bad as well, but seeing as I have them...I was thinking of putting my archon with the wyches and a hekatrix so I could have two agonisers chewing through infantry while the wyches tar pit and eat wounds. Or are they not even worth it then? Either way, Here's a list of everything I own. Feedback on what direction to continue with would be highly appreciated.

5 scourges

1 Archon

6 reaver jet bikes

2 raiders

20 kabalites

10 wyches
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amorrowlyday
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PostSubject: Re: Building a force/general help   Thu Dec 08 2016, 01:24

How wysiwyg do you play, and do you have all the spare special weapons bits?
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Ignatius J. Reilly
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PostSubject: Re: Building a force/general help   Thu Dec 08 2016, 01:29

Still have the special weapons bits, and we play fairly wysiwig. Nothing too serious, and they'll understand if it's not 100% wysiwig since I'm just trying to get this army up and running (I want to game again so bad haha)
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RedRegicide
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PostSubject: Re: Building a force/general help   Thu Dec 08 2016, 01:31

You could webway in with a team of true born or even just a large unit of kabalites to take out important enemy units, then you could use wyches and kabalites.

Wyches do suck, but if you have them, you could use them to back up the reavers. Id kit the reavers for melee, but Lawrence, the spider, seems to like them with blasters and he wins a lot more than i do so maybe they are worth considering.

Id kit the scourges out with haywire or heat lances for some anti tank.

30 bucks? If you mean American, grab a venom. If you mean Canadian, find 6 dollars and buy a venom. Venoms are the bomb.

P.S you are including the start collecting in the "already own" list right?

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amorrowlyday
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PostSubject: Re: Building a force/general help   Thu Dec 08 2016, 01:36

I don't think they need a venom right now. I think a second unit of Scourges that way they can practice fielding one unit with haywire and one unit with heat lances deep striking with the archon would be better. that would put them right around 750 not using the wyches or ~10 kabalites.
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Ignatius J. Reilly
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PostSubject: Re: Building a force/general help   Thu Dec 08 2016, 01:42

Yeah, Like I really want a venom, But I'd have nothing to ride around inside of it with my archon. Not till I got another unit that is haha.

And I hadn't even thought of going with more scourges. That actually sounds pretty cool, and would allow me to use the archon (in a way that doesn't involve wyches or riding all alone)
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RedRegicide
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PostSubject: Re: Building a force/general help   Thu Dec 08 2016, 01:48

Trueborn in a venom is an option. But amorrowlyday isnt wrong, Im building a second unit of scorges because they are a great unit. I find they die really quick, but sometimes its nice to take out a really annoying veichle

Also not having wyches would make you a lot more competitive.

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Ignatius J. Reilly
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PostSubject: Re: Building a force/general help   Thu Dec 08 2016, 02:02

Not to mention that the scourges look incredible too! Looks like I'll be going that route, or at least be heavily considering it. Thank-you both for your feedback, I really appreciate it.
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RedRegicide
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PostSubject: Re: Building a force/general help   Thu Dec 08 2016, 02:05

No problem! Let us know how they do!

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fisheyes
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PostSubject: Re: Building a force/general help   Thu Dec 08 2016, 19:55

I will add my voice to the "Venom" team. 65 pts for 12 shots at 36". Nothing else in our army compares to that.

Throw in 5 warriors in there as a troop choice, and give the venom ObSec. Sit the unit over one of your objectives, and throw poisen at the enemy from 36”. If they kill the venom, than your warriors jump out and still secure the objective. With the new FAQ, you even get to shoot with the warriors at full BS even if the venom jinks.

As for the wyches, throw 10 of them into a raider (with Night Shields), and a sergeant with the Agonizer. Run up to a squishy squad with armor 3+ or worse and watch them weap. Just don’t think that they can take on Termies or other specialized CC units.
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yukondal
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PostSubject: Re: Building a force/general help   Tue Dec 13 2016, 16:27

I run my 10 wyches as lhamaeans instead. Same points cost just better at fighting because they wound on 2s and ID on 6s. I used to think the 4++ in combat would make them a tarpit unit but realized that when they do 0 wounds but still take 1 or 2 they just lose combat anyway and either run away or get swept leaving the enemy unit that you wanted locked in combat free to roam. Plus I'd rather put out 12.5 wounds on a full charge than 5. (30 attacks halfed for hitting on 4s then 5 out of 6 wound for lhamaeans and 2 out of 6 wound for wyches) (against T4) plus the 5+ save keeps more alive when the raider explodes.

Those are my thoughts.

Also put me down in the venom column, and put 5 warriors in it.

Best of luck to ya Smile
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Hen Tai, the tentacle guy
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PostSubject: Re: Building a force/general help   Tue Dec 13 2016, 16:45

I like to field a squad of wyches, just for the pleasure of watching them die a pathetic death in overwatch. On a more serious note, I would start saving up for some grots for CC. They have a bit more staying power in combat and are more killy, in my experience. I have also had huge luck with razorwings.

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fisheyes
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PostSubject: Re: Building a force/general help   Tue Dec 13 2016, 16:57

I assume you mean Razorwing Flocks (the Beastmaster squad), not Razorwing Jetfighters (who are airplanes and are thus unable to enter into close combat Wink ).

Remind me again why we couldent have just called them different things?....
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The Strange Dark One
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PostSubject: Re: Building a force/general help   Tue Dec 13 2016, 18:06

@fisheyes wrote:
I assume you mean Razorwing Flocks (the Beastmaster squad), not Razorwing Jetfighters (who are airplanes and are thus unable to enter into close combat Wink ).

Remind me again why we couldent have just called them different things?....

Fluff: Because the Jetfighter was named after the animal Wink
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Hen Tai, the tentacle guy
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PostSubject: Re: Building a force/general help   Tue Dec 13 2016, 18:16

I meant the razorwing jetfighter. Forgot to specify that my train of thought had moved away from cc, and over to infantry support. Wink

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fisheyes
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PostSubject: Re: Building a force/general help   Tue Dec 13 2016, 19:49

Hunh, I have found them to be hit-and-miss. The blasts are great when the thing arrives, but after the missiles are gone, it just doesnt really do much. More of a bark than a bite (if you know what I mean).

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Logan Frost
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PostSubject: Re: Building a force/general help   Tue Dec 13 2016, 20:11

Since I use a reserve heavy list the jetfighter wing with aerial superiority really helps, although they lose efficiency against power armours.
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amorrowlyday
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PostSubject: Re: Building a force/general help   Tue Dec 13 2016, 20:19

On paper razor wing would be the best AI unit in our army for a staggered wave style. When I played straight vanilla DE keeping AI alive long enough for the scourges to do their job was the biggest problem.
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Ignatius J. Reilly
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PostSubject: Re: Building a force/general help   Wed Dec 14 2016, 04:48

I am kinda in love with our flyers models. So lithe and pointy lol. So The razorwing is just ok? What about the voidraven? Is it worth taking one? On paper those strength 9 lances look pretty awesome, however I'm still not sure if that av10 will hold up well, snap-firing or not. Would be a shame and/or a waste if it only gets one turn...
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amorrowlyday
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PostSubject: Re: Building a force/general help   Wed Dec 14 2016, 04:55

Nah honestly, It's not even the av10 that is the problem, it's the lack of vector dancer and bs4 with only 2 shots. It's probably not going to go down but you're also probably not going to kill anything with it that couldn't be killed reliably with scourges, ravages, or trueborn.

That said, I do think it's MUCH better anti tank with no upgrades by comparison to the antitank razorwing load out for only 20pts more.
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Ignatius J. Reilly
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PostSubject: Re: Building a force/general help   Wed Dec 14 2016, 04:59

Apologies for my ignorance, but what is vector dancer?
Still have a lot to learn about 7th ed...in 5th ed. flyers just acted like skimmers haha.
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amorrowlyday
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PostSubject: Re: Building a force/general help   Wed Dec 14 2016, 05:06

It's a USR that allows you to tack an additional 90 degree turn onto the end of its movement phase.

I forgot to mention: with death from the skies this is mitigated some but few people use DFTS, AND it takes skyfire away from the Voidraven. This is a big deal because otherwise it's an AWESOME anti air platform.
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fisheyes
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PostSubject: Re: Building a force/general help   Wed Dec 14 2016, 13:32

As others have said, vector dancer allows you to move up to 90 deg at the beggining of your turn (line normal), but then again at the end of your turn. That way we could go back-and-forth without needing to ever leave the table. Of course our lame craftworld cousins have this on their flier.

I have been using the Razorwing as a general "dont bunch up your guys" deterrent. Still trying to make the new tank shock mechanic work (so far no luck), and the best way in my mind is to bait the enemy into spreading out his troops conga-line style.

It seems that our fliers are more bark than bite. But if you can scare the enemy into bad positions to "compensate" for the flier, then you are good.
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Ynneadwraith
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PostSubject: Re: Building a force/general help   Wed Dec 14 2016, 13:50

Slightly off topic, but would a Venom full of Medusae do the trick of making the enemy spread out? 5 AP3 flamers sounds nasty. Make sure you point that out to them...

Or maybe two Venoms with 2/3 Medusae each? Still enough to cripple a squad but not quite as fragile.

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Logan Frost
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PostSubject: Re: Building a force/general help   Wed Dec 14 2016, 14:03

3 deepstriking medusae and their venom are usually enough to kill what they are looking at, unless the venom scatters in the wrong direction... and gets immobilized into cover... facing the wrong way...
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