HomeDark Eldar WikiDark Eldar ResourcesNull CityFAQUsergroupsRegisterLog in
Share | 
 

 400pts of Coven

View previous topic View next topic Go down 
AuthorMessage
Malzahar
Slave
avatar

Posts : 8
Join date : 2016-11-25

PostSubject: 400pts of Coven    Mon Dec 05 2016, 13:25

Hey I'm Adam
I used to play DE in 3rd ed. I am slowly assembling an army so far my list is...

Master Epicurean formation


HQ
Haemonculus  + 70pts
Clone Field + 20pts
Scissor Hand + 10pts
Syndriw Sump + 10pts
Total = 110pts


Elites
5 x Wracks + 50pts
Liquefier Gun + 15pts
Acothyst + 10pts
Hex Rifle + 10pts
Total = 85pts

5 x Wracks + 50pts
Ossefactor + 15pts
Acothyst + 10pts
Hex Rifle + 10pts
Total = 85pts

Heavy Support
Cronos + 100pts
Spirit probe + 25pts
Total = 125pts




Total = 405pts

Before I go out and buy more models I have a few questions.

I want to get an Archon, COA, incubi, 2 warriors squads, with 2 venoms, 1 Warrior squad, with a raider, Jetbikes, Helions, and the bomber.

But something I am not understanding is can I play a DE raiding traditional army with a Coven formation?

Do i have limited amount of slots? it used to be 2 HQ, 3 Elites, 6 Troops, 3 Fast attack, and 3 Heavy support. So if I take a coven formation does it use up one of each of these slots?

And finally can I use the power from pain table from the codex for the raiding party, and then the Covens table for the formation?

I hope this is the correct thread my first post. Thanks for the help in advanced. I just don't want to buy all these models and than be unable to use 1/2 of them.
Back to top Go down
fisheyes
Wych
avatar

Posts : 813
Join date : 2016-02-18

PostSubject: Re: 400pts of Coven    Mon Dec 05 2016, 14:38

First off, welcome back into the embrace of the True Kin. Things certainly have changed a lot since 3ed for us (as I am sure you noticed).

So now a days the list building generally gets broken up into a few "Formations". What you have here is a single Coven formation, which would run the Coven PFP table. It has its own requirements for HQs, Troops, etc. You can run as many formations as you want (although most tournaments restrict you to 3 formations), including a regular DE CAD (2 troops and 1 HQ as we used to run). The CAD would run the regular DE PFP table, and the Coven Formation would still run the Coven PFP table (a little hard to keep track of, but do your best Wink

Looks like a good basis for a start of the army. However, 3 comments.

1. You dont have transports for your units. You NEED transports for running DE. Our only advantage is our speed, so if you are not making use of our Fast transports, you are not Dark Eldaring right Wink One of our best units is the lowly Venom (armed with dual splinter cannons). Make sure that you have AT LEAST 4 in a 1500 pt game. At this small points, 2 would be fine.

2. You are mixing weapons in the squads (which is generally frowned upon). You really want to be using weapons that compliment each-other (so dont mix Hexrifle and Liquifier). The Ossefactor and Hexrifle are both OK togeather. Ideally you would put one of those wrack squads with dual Liquifier for the low AP fun (later on in your career of Archon, I would recomend swapping these for Medusae from the Court of the Archon. Guaranteed AP 3 template is very nice).

3. Last thing, dont fall into the trap of expensive units. Your Haemunculi is VERY expensive, and a massive target. He just doesnt bring enough to the table to make him worth another Wrack squad. I would drop everything but the Scissor Hands, and put him in a squad where he can assist in CC. Maybe increase the size of one of the wrack squads and put them in a raider?

Let me know what you think, and I will try to help steer you in the right direction
Back to top Go down
Malzahar
Slave
avatar

Posts : 8
Join date : 2016-11-25

PostSubject: Re: 400pts of Coven    Mon Dec 05 2016, 14:55

Hey thanks for the feedback, this isn't a army I am going to be running, its just the models I have collected so far. I will get stacks of transports and fast attack eventually. Thanks you've put me in a really good direction. I will defs drop the cost of the units, I was thinking this for more as something to draw fire or hold up units. I just always loved the Haemoculus in the 3rd edition because he was tougher, and had the destructor and stinger. Thanks for the feedback Flash



PS. I live in a really rural/remote area. We dont have a GW shop, and everyone plays casually, we all just enjoy the casual side of painting, gaming. I'd have to travel 5 hours to find more competitive play.
Back to top Go down
Marrath
Wych
avatar

Posts : 612
Join date : 2014-01-01
Location : A very spiky Webway-Hulk

PostSubject: Re: 400pts of Coven    Mon Dec 05 2016, 15:58

Welcome!
About the two Power from Pain tables:
Coven use Coven pfp and Kabal the Kabal's pfp.
BUT if you mix them in one Unit like, for example, a Haemonculus in a troop of wyches, his pfp Fearless for example is conferred to the wyches.

So all "If 1 model in the unit..." special rules can be conferred between Coven and Kabal this way, allowing you to indirectly have models with special rules from both pfp tables.

_________________
Archon of the Kabal of the Burning Misery
Make the Djinn Blade great for once!
Back to top Go down
fisheyes
Wych
avatar

Posts : 813
Join date : 2016-02-18

PostSubject: Re: 400pts of Coven    Mon Dec 05 2016, 19:43

What Marrath says is truth. However, you need to keep in mind what abilities are unit wide (Fearless) and what abilities are model specific (IWND).
Back to top Go down
Xm0shcryptX
Kabalite Warrior
avatar

Posts : 241
Join date : 2014-05-29
Location : spokane

PostSubject: Re: 400pts of Coven    Tue Dec 06 2016, 00:00

For the love of god don't waste your money on hellions and the void raven
Back to top Go down
Xm0shcryptX
Kabalite Warrior
avatar

Posts : 241
Join date : 2014-05-29
Location : spokane

PostSubject: Re: 400pts of Coven    Tue Dec 06 2016, 00:13

If you enjoy coven I'd recommend the scalpel squadron since you use wracks, the grotesqurie, or the corpse thief claw
Back to top Go down
fisheyes
Wych
avatar

Posts : 813
Join date : 2016-02-18

PostSubject: Re: 400pts of Coven    Tue Dec 06 2016, 00:35

Your god has no place here in the Dark City, Monkeigh Wink

As Xm0shcryptX says, there are some other formations out there that make better use of the coven units. I will second that hellions and the voidraven are not the best (although, as always, it depends on your META).

I think we need to wait for OP to play a game or two, that way we can help direct his strategy/list towards his strengths (or opponents weaknesses)
Back to top Go down
Logan Frost
Sybarite
avatar

Posts : 406
Join date : 2016-01-25

PostSubject: Re: 400pts of Coven    Tue Dec 06 2016, 18:06

Add a Talos and two venom and you can field a pretty nasty list with a Dark Artisan and a Scalpel Squadron for about 700 pt wich can null deploy and be quite resistant to retaliation.
Then build on a kabal for what the coven lacks.
Back to top Go down
Xm0shcryptX
Kabalite Warrior
avatar

Posts : 241
Join date : 2014-05-29
Location : spokane

PostSubject: Re: 400pts of Coven    Tue Dec 06 2016, 18:35

For example
Cad
medusa 25
Venom 65
2x5 warriors 80
2 venoms 130
3 ravagers with dark lances 375

Scalpel squadron 260
5 wracks ossefactor
Venom
5 wracks ossefactor
Venom

Dark artisan
Haemonculus 70
Cronos spirit probe 125
Talos 120

1250

Back to top Go down
fisheyes
Wych
avatar

Posts : 813
Join date : 2016-02-18

PostSubject: Re: 400pts of Coven    Tue Dec 06 2016, 18:41

Good advice here
Back to top Go down
dumpeal
Wych
avatar

Posts : 591
Join date : 2015-02-13
Location : Québec

PostSubject: Re: 400pts of Coven    Tue Dec 06 2016, 22:10

I see somes problems with the list you proposed. First, no WWP on the Dark artisan haemy? I know WWP is expensive, but having pain engine deep striking near the ennemy is the whole point of the dark artisan.

Second, I don't think there is enough unit to deepstrike to really have the benefit of a null deployment. The dark artisan takes a big chunk of your points. I think you should start with everything on the board (except dark artisan), make some damage with your force, while waiting for the DA to drop, and use it to finish your ennemy.

The reason is: you don't have reserve manipulation and with just a few units (hence, a few reserves roll) there is a real chance nothing come in turn 2, and that your scalpel squadron die.
Back to top Go down
Xm0shcryptX
Kabalite Warrior
avatar

Posts : 241
Join date : 2014-05-29
Location : spokane

PostSubject: Re: 400pts of Coven    Tue Dec 06 2016, 22:18

Perhaps it's personal preference but I never wwp the artisan. Nothing like possibly waiting too late game to maybe assault and having your heavy hitter sitting on the bench.
Back to top Go down
Falke
Hellion
avatar

Posts : 65
Join date : 2016-11-26
Location : Moscow

PostSubject: Re: 400pts of Coven    Tue Dec 06 2016, 22:50

Sorry for my noobish question , but how Dark Artisan is deepstriking? I can`t find =(
Back to top Go down
Xm0shcryptX
Kabalite Warrior
avatar

Posts : 241
Join date : 2014-05-29
Location : spokane

PostSubject: Re: 400pts of Coven    Tue Dec 06 2016, 23:12

Web way portal
Back to top Go down
dumpeal
Wych
avatar

Posts : 591
Join date : 2015-02-13
Location : Québec

PostSubject: Re: 400pts of Coven    Tue Dec 06 2016, 23:18

@Falke wrote:
Sorry for my noobish question , but how Dark Artisan is deepstriking? I can`t find =(

As there is a haemonculus in the unit, if you equip it with a WWP, it gain the deepstrike rule, without scattering. It's an efficient way to deliver pain engines far in the ennemy lines, while the rest of your army take care of the front line.

@Xm0shcryptX wrote:
Perhaps it's personal preference but I never wwp the artisan. Nothing like possibly waiting too late game to maybe assault and having your heavy hitter sitting on the bench.(

I guess that's why I saw problems on your list. Personnally, as I ALWAYS put a WWP on a dark artisan, I need more troops on the field in early game. But then, I don't get the point of having a scalpel squadron if you begin with a dark artisan on the field.
Back to top Go down
Xm0shcryptX
Kabalite Warrior
avatar

Posts : 241
Join date : 2014-05-29
Location : spokane

PostSubject: Re: 400pts of Coven    Wed Dec 07 2016, 00:20

Well by all means show me your idea.
If I'm going to web way something it needs to have impact on the field instantly. Placing a scary thing near by that shoots like a limp noodle isn't doing much and has to wait to assault.
So you're scary unit has helped 0 for half the game possibly much worse
Back to top Go down
Falke
Hellion
avatar

Posts : 65
Join date : 2016-11-26
Location : Moscow

PostSubject: Re: 400pts of Coven    Wed Dec 07 2016, 04:04

@Xm0shcryptX wrote:
Web way portal

@dumpeal wrote:

As there is a haemonculus in the unit, if you equip it with a WWP, it gain the deepstrike rule, without scattering. It's an efficient way to deliver pain engines far in the ennemy lines, while the rest of your army take care of the front line.

Thank you very much!
Back to top Go down
amorrowlyday
Hekatrix
avatar

Posts : 1263
Join date : 2015-03-15
Location : Massachusetts

PostSubject: Re: 400pts of Coven    Wed Dec 07 2016, 04:26

I don't favor one approach over the other as it's totally conditional on the rest of the makeup of the army and I echo @dumpeal 's comment: Why take a scalpel squadron if you're not going to null deploy?
Back to top Go down
Xm0shcryptX
Kabalite Warrior
avatar

Posts : 241
Join date : 2014-05-29
Location : spokane

PostSubject: Re: 400pts of Coven    Wed Dec 07 2016, 04:30

Because he has the ability to field it now before breaking the bank to expand.
Back to top Go down
amorrowlyday
Hekatrix
avatar

Posts : 1263
Join date : 2015-03-15
Location : Massachusetts

PostSubject: Re: 400pts of Coven    Wed Dec 07 2016, 04:37

That's totally reasonable.

If you want the WWP:

Medusae -> Lahmian
3 Ravagers -> 3 Scourges (4xHaywire blaster)
HQ Venom -> Raider

Back to top Go down
Malzahar
Slave
avatar

Posts : 8
Join date : 2016-11-25

PostSubject: Re: 400pts of Coven    Wed Dec 07 2016, 06:02

Yo thanks for all the advice all. I've ordered 3x venoms, and a raider, as well as jetbikes and Warriors. But why so much hate on Helions, I was gonna have my epicurian formation to soak up fire (plus your warlord wants to die who dark eldar is that), and the Hellions and Jetbikes too zoom up a flank and pick on light infantry. Mainly people play guard, space marines, and Tau, in my town.
Back to top Go down
fisheyes
Wych
avatar

Posts : 813
Join date : 2016-02-18

PostSubject: Re: 400pts of Coven    Wed Dec 07 2016, 12:12

The issue with the hellions is that they are expensive, weak and fragile. A 5 man squad isnt going to do anything (except to MAYBE a 10 man naked guardsman squad, but do we really need help dealing with that?), and will take up one of our valuable FA slots.

If you want something fast for CC, take more Reavers. You could do worse than a 6 man squad of those jinking up the field with 3+ (jink), than HoW with rending attacks. Whereas Hellions bring.... AP6 lol.
Back to top Go down
dumpeal
Wych
avatar

Posts : 591
Join date : 2015-02-13
Location : Québec

PostSubject: Re: 400pts of Coven    Wed Dec 07 2016, 15:27

@Xm0shcryptX wrote:
Well by all means show me your idea.
If I'm going to web way something it needs to have impact on the field instantly. Placing a scary thing near by that shoots like a limp noodle isn't doing much and has to wait to assault.
So you're scary unit has helped 0 for half the game possibly much worse

There is a few points to take into account.

-First, the mere presence of a WWP Dark Artisan change how your opponent play. If he knows you have an unkillable close combat unit that will deepstrike without error 2 inchs from his army, he won't castle all his army, because of the fear to have all his army locked in close combat. A spreaded ennemy army is what we like, because it's easier to focus kill.

-It doesn't matter you have to wait a whole turn after it WWP. Your opponent will shoot at it, and it will (should) survive. You just need to focus kill grav weapon and poison weapons before it comes in.

-A Dark Artisan is very slow. If you field it without a WWP, I would be afraid your ennemy just stay out of it's range. It's an expensive unit. I WANT it to get to the opponent.
Back to top Go down
 
400pts of Coven
View previous topic View next topic Back to top 
Page 1 of 1

Permissions in this forum:You cannot reply to topics in this forum
THE DARK CITY :: 

COMMORRAGH TACTICA

 :: Army Lists
-
Jump to: