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RedRegicide
Wych
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PostSubject: MSU beast pack spam   Fri 2 Dec 2016 - 19:36

Hey guys, I love beast packs look wise. I was thinking though, are they tactically better as a squad or just running khymera or fiends individually? I don't want to give up too many easy kill points but if I'm using MSU infugure I might as well commit
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fisheyes
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PostSubject: Re: MSU beast pack spam   Sat 3 Dec 2016 - 0:07

Well, the Beastpack is a multi-purpose unit that has many advantages and disadvantages.

The Beastmaster himself is the cheapest, mobile shooting unit in our army (and possibly the game). For 10 pts you get a guy who can move 12" each turn, shoot at 18", has fleet and move through cover (beasts). He takes up a goodly amount of space, so he can even block lanes, etc.

As for the Khymera, they are one of our best assault units (in terms of damage output that is) vs T4 guys (aka space marines), or guys with a high invulnerable save. These guys get 4 attacks on the carge, cause fear, and pack T4 with a 5++ to boot. Their large base is both a boon and a curse. Small squads can easily block lanes and give out cover to friendly units. Unfotrunately it makes it hard to get larger squads into combat, and harder to find cover themselves.

I have yet to try out fiends, so let me know how they go Wink

I personally max out my FA slot with single beastmasters whenever possible. Its just too useful a 10 pts not to take. I imagine mandrakes are similar in function (but traid movement for their cover save)
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Xm0shcryptX
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PostSubject: Re: MSU beast pack spam   Sat 3 Dec 2016 - 3:41

I have been running 3 clawed fiends in my competitive lists and they do really well. They are easy to conceal. Fast, I never have trouble getting cover saves, and it's a win if people try to kill them and even better when they fail. They have always helped capture objectives, aide with my grots by taking over watch perhaps ". Or just being a nuisance. They are harder to kill than people think and having 3 makes them a giant pain. I combine them with 3 min squads of mandrakes and the msu really annoys people
Just my 2cents
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PostSubject: Re: MSU beast pack spam   Sat 3 Dec 2016 - 7:50

I've also been toying around with Clawed Fiend with Beastmaster mixes. Ezekiel Fiends and a Beastmaster is nice, good fast moving unit that hits pretty hard, excellent at stripping HPs from anything with rear armour 10.

I no longer use Ravagers for Rhinos etc, its these guys

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CptMetal
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PostSubject: Re: MSU beast pack spam   Sat 3 Dec 2016 - 10:46

So three single clawed fiends? Interesting idea...
What models do you use? The original one?
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fisheyes
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PostSubject: Re: MSU beast pack spam   Sat 3 Dec 2016 - 12:52

Hmm, just keep your leadership in mind if you are going without a beastmaster. You take a casualty and the unit will run. I would be upset if someone shot at my 3 fiends (costing about the same as a 3 man Grot squad if I recall correct?)

But for Rhinos, even the Khmare work fine. S4 with 4 attacks each targeting rear armor. For 10 pts.

For minimal squads, I would take either beastmasters or Khmare. Let me know how the Fiends go though
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PostSubject: Re: MSU beast pack spam   Sat 3 Dec 2016 - 15:45

I'm curious about the fiends now... might give them a shot

I will either run khymera solo or admit a pack with BM to protect my two Razorwings

Thanks for the advice!

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PostSubject: Re: MSU beast pack spam   Sat 3 Dec 2016 - 15:45

I'm curious about the fiends now... might give them a shot

I will either run khymera solo or admit a pack with BM to protect my two Razorwings

Thanks for the advice!

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PostSubject: Re: MSU beast pack spam   Sun 4 Dec 2016 - 4:32

You need the Beastmaster for Ld but I find that 3 Fiends dish out a good amount of damage.

Comparing them to Grots is like apples to oranges. You use the 2 units quite differently for various reasons. The Fiends have fleet and ignore terrain penalty to so can launch into assault from a further distance than Grots. Plus the Grots need a Raider so more points spent there...

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PostSubject: Re: MSU beast pack spam   Sun 4 Dec 2016 - 5:47

I would only need a BM with the large pack, the fiends would run solo so they'll never have to take morale right?

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Xm0shcryptX
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PostSubject: Re: MSU beast pack spam   Sun 4 Dec 2016 - 6:12

Ya I just bit the bullet and paid full price for the models. Couldn't think of a decent conversion. I don't have ld issues since they are alone. And they can certainly do some good damage against light av !
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PostSubject: Re: MSU beast pack spam   Mon 5 Dec 2016 - 17:57

I may be completely wrong, but didn't the newest FAQ nerf beasts? I thought they removed the No Penalty of move through cover and they fight at I1 on the charge? Am I right? Or am I taking crazy pills?

Q: Are Beasts and Cavalry reduced to Initiative 1 when
charging through difficult terrain?
A: Yes.

Or am I just mixing rules together in my mind?
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PostSubject: Re: MSU beast pack spam   Mon 5 Dec 2016 - 18:12

I believe you are right! But I'll place objectives in the open to make up for that, and the real advantage is the MSU

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PostSubject: Re: MSU beast pack spam   Mon 5 Dec 2016 - 20:40

You are correct, the FAQ means that we no longer get our "Beast Grenades". So another nail in the coffin of the Beastpack
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PostSubject: Re: MSU beast pack spam   Tue 6 Dec 2016 - 1:27

Meh the way I use them this doesn't effect my strategy much I'm trying my best to stay in cover and out of LOS to score objectives
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Falke
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PostSubject: Re: MSU beast pack spam   Tue 6 Dec 2016 - 8:00

I think about large pack of Razorwing Flock, will it works? I like it swarm rule.
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Count Adhemar
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PostSubject: Re: MSU beast pack spam   Tue 6 Dec 2016 - 10:23

@Falke wrote:
I think about large pack of Razorwing Flock, will it works? I like it swarm rule.

Not sure what there is to like about the Swarm rule. It's pretty much all negative, especially for Beasts (as they already have the benefit of not being slowed by difficult terrain). And being multiple wound models with T3 and a crap save is not a good thing in the age of scatbikes.

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PostSubject: Re: MSU beast pack spam   Tue 6 Dec 2016 - 17:03

I haven't had any issues with Scatter Bikes in my area. Drown them in poison shots and they will go down like any other model. If you make them Jink, then they are not effective at shooting the next turn. If Scatter Bikes are shooting at your Razorwing flocks, you must be doing something right.
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PostSubject: Re: MSU beast pack spam   Tue 6 Dec 2016 - 17:20

Not sure why a scatterbike would be jinking AP5 weapons but each to their own Very Happy

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PostSubject: Re: MSU beast pack spam   Tue 6 Dec 2016 - 17:29

Does have a point about Scatbikes shooting Razorwings though.

That's 81pts-worth and 12 S6 shots shooting at 20pts of Razorwings.

I did mull over using that formation that gives us 7 FA slots and filling them with individual Khymaerae at 10pts a pop...

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PostSubject: Re: MSU beast pack spam   Tue 6 Dec 2016 - 17:32

I was responding to the comment from Falke about large packs of Razorwings. At that point, shooting them with scatbikes is an easy win for the Eldar (not that much isn't an easy win for the Eldar these days).

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PostSubject: Re: MSU beast pack spam   Tue 6 Dec 2016 - 17:47

It's just 6 FA slots for realspace raid I believe. I'm going to try it with clawed fiends and khymera

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PostSubject: Re: MSU beast pack spam   Tue 6 Dec 2016 - 19:56

@Count Adhemar wrote:
I was responding to the comment from Falke about large packs of Razorwings. At that point, shooting them with scatbikes is an easy win for the Eldar (not that much isn't an easy win for the Eldar these days).

Ah I see. Yeah that does sound like a recipe for losing a lot of points in short order.

I wonder. Where do you think codices would rank if you were only allowed to take the bottom 3 units in a given codex.

I think even then Eldar would be top tier, what with Fusion Gun Storm Guardians, Banshees and Vypers. None of those are genuinely bad units, per-se.

@RedRegicide wrote:
It's just 6 FA slots for realspace raid I believe. I'm going to try it with clawed fiends and khymera

Ah thanks Smile let me know how it goes. Sounds like a good annoyance tactic. Especially if you were going heavy on Kabs in Venoms anyway so you can stretch to 12 FA slots...

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PostSubject: Re: MSU beast pack spam   Tue 6 Dec 2016 - 20:04

TBH, I think its worth going dual CAD for the extra FA slots. Its not like we dont like using warrior venoms (and cheap Courts in venoms). I really love ObSec
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PostSubject: Re: MSU beast pack spam   Tue 6 Dec 2016 - 20:23

I have yet to try them, but I believe the MSU might give me an edge in objective based games

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