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amorrowlyday
Hekatrix
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PostSubject: 1850 ITC List   Sun Nov 27 2016, 22:15

Real Space Raider Detachment
HQ
Archon w/WWP and Blaster or Court- 4 Sslyths
Troops
2xKabalites[5] w/shredder and raider w/chainsnares and nightshields
Fast Attack
3x Reavers[3]- Arena Champion, Blaster, Cluster Caltrops
2x Scourges[5]- Solarite w/venomblade, 4xHaywire blaster
Scourges[5]- Solarite w/venomblade, 4xHeat Lance

Craftworld CAD
HQ
Autarch w/Banshee Mask, Skyrunner, Laser lance, Fusion Gun
Farseer w/Skyrunner, Singing Spear
Troops
Ranger[5]
Windrider Jetbike[3] w/3xScatter Laser

Corsair Fleet Raiding Company
Command Crew
Void Dreamer w/Mastery lvl1, Shadowfield {if Archon} or Void Dreamer w/Mastery lvl2, shimmershield {if Sslyths}
Cotorie[Primary]{Head Takers or Sky Burners}
HQ
Prince w/Cloud Dancer, Shdowfield, Mastery lvl1, Keeper of Ancient Treasures(Shard of Anaris)
Troops
2xCloud Dancer Jet bikes(3) w/3xSplinter Cannon
Elite
Wasp assult walker w/2x Scatter Lasers, Void Burners

The more I thought about the tank shock discussion we were having the more apparent it became to me that I don't need a quiver full of raiders with shock prows to snipe characters in death stars. I need 2 maybe 3, an assembly of highly mobile curtains that I can utilize to create quasi impassable terrain to restrict their fall back move and thus remove chunks from the unit at a time. By spamming EJB's across all three factions. Keeping with the re-positionable wall approach I'm going to take Scourges for their substantial footprint, movement speed, and ability to down vehicles reliably without blowing them up.

This approach will allow me to dictate which targets I want to focus on and when from the very beginning of the game. MSU vs baronnial court, fortune/invisibility-star for wulfen and other fast CC armies, Anti-vehicle saturation should give me a decent matchup vs the battle company, Guided/Prescience'd  splinter cannons and scatter lasers to deal with white scars. With reliable AV I'm not concerned about Ravenwing since I should be able to drop the barges that give them super jink with relative easy. I foresee GSC being hard to deal with, as well as the Flyin' Circus. Trump's Wall (MSU Drop Pods) may also be hard, in so far as I'll be fighting the clock not really the other player.

Things that I'm still mulling over:

Archon w/blaster and WWP and a Void Dreamer w/Mastery lvl1 and Shadowfield
or
4xSslyth and a Void Dreamer w/Mastery lvl2 and a Shimmershield

Depending on Aethermancy power, and the opponent, the former either drop as a pair or in a group with the heatlance scourges. While the later takes 2 shots at getting warp blink but is otherwise using pathward to sweep out my backfield strolling around with 8 T5, 5++, FNP wounds with shard carbines.

I'm also considering whether or not:
2x Scourges[5]- Solarite w/venomblade, 4xHaywire blaster
Scourges[5]- Solarite w/venomblade, 4xHeat Lance

is worth taking over:
3x Scourges[5]- Solarite w/venomblade, 4xHaywire blaster

As well as whether or not flipping a coin on a solo-DS HL Scourge unit is worth it. Intuition pump says no.

and if:
Wasp assult walker w/2x Scatter Lasers, Void Burners

Dropping this anchor is the most efficient use of the 75pts it occupies.

Thoughts appreciated, Edits to come.

Notable Asset Count
Undiverted Poison shots per turn: 36+8-16 [12-sslyths]
Haywire: 8
Str6: 4ML, 3d6R, 9AP6, 2AP-SB
Str8: 1M, 3L, [1L-Archon]  
AB/FB: 1 (2 in CC)
AP3: 6S5 4S6/S3
Wounds/Hull Points
T3: 25
T4: 27
AV10: 9
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Kantalla
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PostSubject: Re: 1850 ITC List   Mon Nov 28 2016, 09:24

I would be interested to know how you would get on with the tank shot plans. I still think it is fairly limited, due to only being able to tank shock in the movement phase, so no turbo boosting bikes or flat out vehicles to help out by blocking movement.

Why the Solarites on the Scourges? I like the Heat Lance option for one squad, especially if you go with a WWP.

If you go Archon and WWP then I'd suggest swapping the Blaster for Haywire Grenades, as you want to land within Haywire range anyway.

A few minor swaps and you might have other options to the Wasp too. Are you intending to Deep Strike it? If not why not a War Walker instead?

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fisheyes
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PostSubject: Re: 1850 ITC List   Mon Nov 28 2016, 12:32

I too am a little perplexed by the venom blades on the Scourges. You are expecting to charge into CC with them? I thought they could take a HWG at the same cost of the venom blade (which would mesh better with their weapons IMO).

Otherwise, looks about right. You definately have enough of everything here to deal with most stuff.

I would vote for the Sslyth over the Archon. His 2++ is just not reliable enough to babysit anything important.
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amorrowlyday
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PostSubject: Re: 1850 ITC List   Mon Nov 28 2016, 21:18

Kantalla wrote:
I would be interested to know how you would get on with the tank shot plans. I still think it is fairly limited, due to only being able to tank shock in the movement phase, so no turbo boosting bikes or flat out vehicles to help out by blocking movement.

Correct but I'm certainly not required to do all my tank shocks first, and since basically my whole army is built around being able to move 12" in the movement phase I'll have a screen for my boats to move up turn 1 that turns into a net turn 2. Turn 2 movement phase I tankshock hoping to cause a fallback and surround the target unit. Ideally sniping the snowflake on the tank shock. I spend the next 3 phases, attempting to induce morale checks. morale check fails. unit can't fall back due to being surrounded. units destroyed. Incidentally a buff to Jump over cavalry and beast as those fall back as infantry and falling back 3d6 is bad in tight spaces.


Kantalla wrote:
Why the Solarites on the Scourges? I like the Heat Lance option for one squad, especially if you go with a WWP.

That is explicitly the only reason I'm considering an archon.

Kantalla wrote:
If you go Archon and WWP then I'd suggest swapping the Blaster for Haywire Grenades, as you want to land within Haywire range anyway.

Agreed. right now I'm taking a blaster to eat 10pts and to open up the possibility of dropping the pair with a different unit if the need arises.

Kantalla wrote:
A few minor swaps and you might have other options to the Wasp too. Are you intending to Deep Strike it? If not why not a War Walker instead?

Correct, though the ability to deep strike is secondary in why I opted for Wasps, main reason is the jump pack. 12" hops or d6S6HoW.

fisheyes wrote:
I too am a little perplexed by the venom blades on the Scourges. You are expecting to charge into CC with them? I thought they could take a HWG at the same cost of the venom blade (which would mesh better with their weapons IMO).

I wish! that would make total sense too since they have one of the only grenade in hand bits in the army. Unfortunately the only units whose sergeants can get HWG are Kabalites/Trueborn and Wyches/Bloodbrides. As for why I even spent the points on solarites for venomblades, the title and weapon combined cost the same as a blaster, and I'm doing the same thing the folks who take blasters in 5 body kabalite squads only in reverse. Once all the vehicles are dead the scourges are explicitly a screen, and the best way through a screen is to charge it. Your probably not s6 and you probably don't have abundant ap4. in which case I eventually lose, several turns later because even though you out attritioned me most likely that's because you made me take saves, and I couldn't really scratch you. Power Lance is unfortunately only worth it on the charge after turn 4.

fisheyes wrote:
Otherwise, looks about right. You definately have enough of everything here to deal with most stuff.
I think I'll be well positioned against most of the meta lists, But I may have some weaknesses to certain spoiler lists. Freakshow will probably table me for instance. Deathwatch is going to be hard. I'm not afraid of a Riptide wing at all, but a crisis-star gives me pause.

fisheyes wrote:
I would vote for the Sslyth over the Archon. His 2++ is just not reliable enough to babysit anything important.

Unless I'm building a harlie-star using an eldar warhost aiming for fortune and 3 shadowfields, I won't pay for a shadowfield on an archon. I'll pay 40-50 for a wwp and a HWG/blaster tho. In this particular case the archon isn't filling a "DPS" (DPT?) role and using the squad as their "tank" They're acting as a support for the void dreamer opening up the viability of a 3rd (second in ITC) Aethermancy power in webway breach. I roll poorly? And I'm firmly on the side that Aethermancy must be rolled for, I still have 2 supports whose primary duty is completed turn 2, spits out a S8AP2 shot every turn thereafter, moves 6 inches every turn even through cover, and has a 2+invuln and is likely to be within 24" of a farseer who could have fortune.

Archon/void dreamer is a weapon guidance system.

Sslyth/void Dreamer is a backfield sweeper.

With everything else considered what do I need more of?
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fisheyes
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PostSubject: Re: 1850 ITC List   Tue Nov 29 2016, 12:32

Something to note: Skyrunner units dont have fleet. So if you wanted to join your Autarch to your reavers, you will loose out on that sweet fleet re-roll.

Otherwise, why not re-post your list with all the sargents removed?
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amorrowlyday
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PostSubject: Re: 1850 ITC List   Tue Nov 29 2016, 18:24

Reavers don't have fleet.

Dropping the solarites only nets me 45pts and I won't drop Arena Champions since that actually harms the army. CC has no base unit members only requirement like the blaster does, and I've dropped special snowflakes that could kill my IC's by tossing them an arena champion on my charge instead.
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Massaen
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PostSubject: Re: 1850 ITC List   Wed Nov 30 2016, 04:42

I am still not sure how you expect the bikes to work on this net of yours... unless you plan on turbo boosting them the turn before tank shock - in which case your opponent has a turn to shoot and charge them before you tank shock

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amorrowlyday
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PostSubject: Re: 1850 ITC List   Wed Nov 30 2016, 05:33

1. Dawn of war on a 6x4
2. Jetbikes on the limit of my deployment zone, Raider sideways at the 8" mark.
3. Turn 1 regardless of who goes first everybody moves 12", my 12" move puts my jetbikes in the center of the board, and my Raider 4" to my side of center.
4a. If the opponent moved forward atleast 6" out of their deployment zone a full 12" move on my part would put my jetbikes 6" behind them, and the TS would fully extend toabout 2" past the given squad. Instead of moving this max distance I move just far enough to encircle the squad and tank shock, directly into its center, inducing a moral check and likely killing an guy.
4b. If my opponent does not move far enough forward to spring my trap I simply trudge forward shooting and screening and can spring this trap, without shooting phase moving, turn 3 anywhere on the board.
5. Once I've tank shocked, whenever that happens, I move another unit were the Raider TS'd from.
6. If they fail a morale check from that point on so long as they are encircled they'll likely be destroyed.

Are you not also forgetting the assault phase move? Most likely I will not even need that here tho. The fact that the raiders need to always move 12" except when actually tank shock is precisely why I said I was considering wyches for this task in the other thread.
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Massaen
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PostSubject: Re: 1850 ITC List   Wed Nov 30 2016, 07:12

I think you are simplifying this WAY to much for it to be a viable tactic. If you can get it to work with any regularity and against solid opposition then well done! I think its more likely an opportunistic thing that might come up.

Personally - I think the idea of basing an army around this tactic is doomed to failure before you even get to the table.

Assuming you power forward 12" as you describe - I am charging you in my next turn regardless - and even basic marines beat guardians on bikes - or tie them up enough that tank shock is a non issue. Any decent assault unit that can charge will utterly destroy these small units.

That's also ignoring the fact you have only 2 AV10 vehicles to complete this kamikaze move which (given how much of the army deep strikes) will be first of the targets to be killed via any unit unable to charge your 3 man units.

Like I said - kudos go out to you if it works even once and you deserve a standing ovation if you can make it work reliably and consistently but given the forces arrayed against you, I really do doubt the chances of this.

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amorrowlyday
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PostSubject: Re: 1850 ITC List   Wed Nov 30 2016, 09:17

Be realistic. If you can reliably kill 6 units of jetbikes in assault in 1 turn I'm playing differently. You're also putting far too much emphasis on the boats. They don't matter. TS is just an automatic morale check, literally everything else that unit has going for it is, and albeit situational at best, gravy. At the end of the day it's still going to play like a traditional venoms with scourges and reavers DE list with better characters. It simply affords me a couple of additional tricks.

I also don't understand what you mean by deep striking. Very little is deepstriking. Maybe one unit of scourges that might have an Archon/void dreamer attached to it, and 1 75pt walker. Haywire scourges start on the table and move 12" like everybody else.

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