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 2500 points vs 30k

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ArchonGuardsman
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PostSubject: 2500 points vs 30k   Sat Nov 26 2016, 17:46

I have played against Dark Eldar with my 30k force and have found that it requires no real modification to fit well into 30k. The circle I primarily play in is 30k centric and nobody minds purging a xeno or two.

The List I have come up with is designed with this in mind, Dark Eldar MSU is actually pretty good seeing as Legion lists usually have less units than their codex counterparts. Poison and blasters are actually incredibly effective given the presence of artillery and flare shielded spartans. The big differences are that there is only 1 force org available outside of a narrative setting, the Age of Darkness Army list. Also the other big deal is troops and Implacable advance units are the only Scoring in your army.

I have made an army I feel would be decent at dealing with armor and takes advantage of the unique aspects present in 30k.

Based on what list I am facing the units take on different functions. With all 3 HQ's having a WWP it gives me good turn 2 and 3 potential against quad mortars and spartans. Mechanicum should have a rough day with the taloi and numerous sources of poison, even if I have to re-roll my successful wounds.

Another thing to note is the succubus goes with the Archon's court giving them that tasty fear! Also initiative AP 2 will be good for acing artificer sargeants

I would love to get your thoughts!

Age of Darkness Army List

No HQ: Court of the Archon  
2 Lahmian
7 Sslyth
Raider - splinter racks

HQ:

Archon with WWP and Blaster and Haywire grenades

Succubus with Glaive, Armor of Misery, haywire grenade and WWP

Haemunculus with scissorhand and WWP

Troops

4- 5 man squads each including a sybarite with haywire grenades
All are mounted in venoms with dual splinter cannons

2- 10 man squads including sybarites with haywire grenades
Both in raiders with dark lances, splinter racks, and night shields

Elites

5 incubi in a venom with dual splinter cannons

5 Grotesques

5 Trueborn 4 blasters, sybarite with blast pistol and haywire grenade

Heavy support

Ravager with 3 dark lances

Ravager with 3 dark lances

2 Talos with ichor injectors

I still have a few points to tool around with, I could switch some stuff around as well.

If an HQ with a WWP joins a unit with a transport can the transport also deep strike?


Last edited by ArchonGuardsman on Sun Nov 27 2016, 20:45; edited 1 time in total
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Kantalla
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PostSubject: Re: 2500 points vs 30k   Sat Nov 26 2016, 20:34

Would be glad to check through the list if you can tidy the format up. There is a heap of information there we don't need to see (rules, profiles and individual item points) and it is painfully long to read through.

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ArchonGuardsman
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PostSubject: Re: 2500 points vs 30k   Sun Nov 27 2016, 20:46

Thanks for bringing the bad formatting to my attention! It looked better on my phone.
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Kantalla
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PostSubject: Re: 2500 points vs 30k   Mon Nov 28 2016, 00:23

Does your Force Org chart allow for 3 HQs? With the units you have there if you didn't have the single Force Org chart limitation I would be looking for CAD + Grotesquerie + Dark Artisan, but if you can't do that we need to find alternatives.

I'm assuming your WWP matches are:
Succubus -> Court
Archon -> Trueborn
Haemonculus -> Grotesques
Are those right?

WWPs can be used to drop a transport in by deep strike, although our transports have deep strike already.

I like the basic idea of dropping a heap of T5 models down behind enemy lines. You don't actually need all the WWPs to do that though, and there might be some interesting ways to switch up this concept.

The Succubus and Court are fine. Are you planning to sit in the Raider and shoot, or jump out and assault? If the former, I would add Night Shields, and if the latter then drop the Splinter Racks. You could drop the WWP, as a Raider has Deep Strike by default, although potentially with a mishap risk. From an assault point of view Lhamaeans are more points efficient, although not as good at shooting. A 3 Lhamaean / 6 Sslyth mix is worth considering if you are aiming for assault.

The Archon and Trueborn are likely to be able to deal with a vehicle before they get vaporised. At a cost of 260 points, that doesn't seem that great to me. I would suggest dropping the Archon and getting a Raider with Night Shields for the Trueborn. They would also ditch the Dracon if not using a WWP. That unit can still arrive by deep strike, but has a reasonable chance of survival against the retaliation, or will at least take more firepower to get rid of.

Haemonculus and Grotesques are decent. I always like to get an Aberration with Agoniser in there if possible.

Incubi are OK as an assault unit, but a small unit in a Venom are too fragile in my view. I would suggest turning into more Grotesques in a Raider instead, and the Succubus might have to join these instead of the Court to deal with otherwise low leadership.

The Sybarites with Haywire Grenades seem unnecessary to me. When I play those units I don't find myself getting within 8" or assaulting very often, so I would trim the points from all six Warrior squads. If you play more aggressively with those units you might get better value from them.

Ravagers are fine. Night Shields are good if you can get them, but not essential.

Talos fine too.

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PostSubject: Re: 2500 points vs 30k   Tue Nov 29 2016, 16:57

The Age of Darkness force org is: 3 HQ 6 Troops 4 Elites 3 Fast attack 3 Heavy Support no formations or CAD

Mandatory 1 HQ 2 Troops

You got the pairing correct on the HQ's and units.

I am pretty new to the Dark Eldar Rules,  I am getting back into them after their last codex. Given the ability to use a raider to deep strike I can take the WWP off the succubus, thanks for pointing that out Smile

The raider with the Succubus and the Court are intended to deal with quad-mortars and Heavy weapon teams which are a Serious threat in 30k. Plus they have the option of splitting off like a MERV and messing up 2 units in assault.

The Archon & boyfriend team combo is intended to deal with spartans. I would dump them in cover 12 to 18" away and hopefully blow away an almost 400 point vehical. I do dig the idea of making them bigger thanks!

I was hoping to use the Grots to draw heat from the other deep strikers but the agonizer is a solid choice!

I will have to puzzle the incubi, i think you are right that they are fragile, but I really dig their theme. I really appreciate the advice on them. If I have to cut something to make the list better they will probably be the first place I look.


I was thinking with the haywire grenades that they could be a last ditch effort there is a lot more armor and 30 K than in 40 K I think that this will require play testing just due to the difference in environment


Thank you so much for your analysis I really appreciate it!
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PostSubject: Re: 2500 points vs 30k   Tue Nov 29 2016, 18:49

Recently played a 30k match against Imperial Fists. The MVP was definately my Grots (with a shout-out to my Haemi with scissor hands). It just feels great to get a charge off, then roll 6 on your rampage. 8 attacks each on the charge just wiped the squad out, no need for AoM shenanigans.

Would recommend a Medusae in your Court. So much 3+ saves in 30k, you are guaranteed to make some mon-keigh melt Wink
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PostSubject: Re: 2500 points vs 30k   Tue Nov 29 2016, 20:21

That is a sick idea with the medusae! I love the model as well.
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PostSubject: Re: 2500 points vs 30k   Fri Dec 02 2016, 05:20

I made some adjustments.

I swapped out one of the Sslyth for a medusae! It means I get to paint one!

I took out sybarites and haywire grenades on all the troops as well as the succubus.
Speaking of the Succubus I took the webway portal off of her.

I managed to find the points to push in another Talos.

I also managed to put an agonizer on my haemunculus.

I even get to keep the Incubi

Thanks for all the input you beautiful bastards!
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PostSubject: Re: 2500 points vs 30k   Fri Dec 02 2016, 13:46

I have found that we lack the AP2 in CC (although if you are bringing Incubi, you may have that issue solved), and really like the SH on the Haemi. But YMMV, so you do you bud Wink


Last edited by fisheyes on Fri Dec 02 2016, 22:51; edited 1 time in total
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PostSubject: Re: 2500 points vs 30k   Fri Dec 02 2016, 20:01

I actually liked the Haywire Grenades...
One question: what morale do the 30k Marines have and are they vulnerable to Phantasm Grenade Launcher attacks or the archangel of Pain?

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PostSubject: Re: 2500 points vs 30k   Fri Dec 02 2016, 22:55

They lack ATSKNF, so they should get affected. I dont know the individual legion rules, its possible that some of them are immune. Imperial Fists were quite susceptible to such tactics
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PostSubject: Re: 2500 points vs 30k   Sat Dec 03 2016, 06:58

I really recommend a Grotesquerie, maybe cut the Dark Lances on the Raiders, Disintegrator Cannons are not bad.

You already have a Haemonculus, you only need 1 more Grotesque:
1 Haemonculus
2x3 Grotesques

For Covens supplement Grotesquerie Formation Special Rule: Latest  Experiments.
Random buff for all Grotesques.

Edit: I also really like your Idea for Haywire Kabalites MSU.
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PostSubject: Re: 2500 points vs 30k   Sat Dec 03 2016, 08:19

Good to know about the Haywire feedback!

And you can't take formations in 30k. The Dark Eldar codex works just fine using the Age of Darkness force org though. The only way I could include Covens is using a raider detachment from book 4 where elites can fill the compulsory. Or the attacker from the ZM force org.

unlike 40K, in 30K there is very limited fearless or leadership negation so the leadership negatives actually can have a huge effect. However in 30k you must get opponent permission before using relics if I remember correctly.
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