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aurynn
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PostSubject: New FAQ - Factions   Wed Nov 23 2016, 22:41

Importan thing IMO... According to FAQ a unit composed of multiple factions' models has ALL the factions of the models included... What most broken combo we can make out of it? :-)
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fisheyes
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PostSubject: Re: New FAQ - Factions   Thu Nov 24 2016, 16:11

Hmm, hadent even considered this... Could this be used to cheese your way around "no starting in an ally transport"?

Archon with blaster, wwp, raider, joined by Wraithguard? All count as from the same faction?

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Ynneadwraith
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PostSubject: Re: New FAQ - Factions   Thu Nov 24 2016, 16:23

There we go, I was wondering how to exploit this. Any Eldar CC unit joined by an Archon could now start in a Raider, no?

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fisheyes
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PostSubject: Re: New FAQ - Factions   Thu Nov 24 2016, 17:38

Not sure if CC is the way to go with this. I cant recall, but I think our Grots are better than the Wraithblades (please correct me if I am wrong).

Otherwise you have a bunch of T3 guys sitting outside a wrecked raider, staring down the guns of the entire enemy army. Not a fun place to be, even with spirit stones Wink
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Kantalla
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PostSubject: Re: New FAQ - Factions   Thu Nov 24 2016, 19:18

Wraithguard wont work because they are bulky and Archon plus Wraithguard is 11 transport capacity. Would have to go in a Tantalus instead.

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fisheyes
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PostSubject: Re: New FAQ - Factions   Thu Nov 24 2016, 19:29

Eh, I guess I am wrong yet again.

Still, I would not be pleased if my opponent tried to skirt the rules in this way.
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The Red King
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PostSubject: Re: New FAQ - Factions   Thu Nov 24 2016, 19:30

I think the faq specifies that battle brothers can not start in each others transports.

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Marrath
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PostSubject: Re: New FAQ - Factions   Thu Nov 24 2016, 19:58

@OP:
In the FAQ that was an answer to a question regarding a targeted unit and Preferred Enemy and Hatred USR(page 11), i don't think it overwrites the Battle Brothers/Transport disallowance that is still there(page 12)

@Kantalla: Is the minimum unit size for Wraithguards not 3 like for Grotesques?
Otherwise the Archon w/WWP+Wraithguard+Raider combo would have never worked.

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Kantalla
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PostSubject: Re: New FAQ - Factions   Thu Nov 24 2016, 21:49

Minimum side is 5 for Wraithguard

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amorrowlyday
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PostSubject: Re: New FAQ - Factions   Thu Nov 24 2016, 22:12

The battle brothers restriction is still there, and while this whole forum disagreed with me about the fact that factions are in fact battle brothers with themselves if taken from different detachments GW has essentially agreed with me with the immediate answer after the battlebrothers question. This answer was not necessary until GW banned battlebrothers beginning the game in transports, and now it is and they have issued a ruling to that effect.

A covens haemonculus is battlebrothers with your mainbook cad but because, and only because, of their answer to the next question it may begin the game in a raider.

Even though the macro-unit has all the factions it is comprised of all battlebrother restrictions are still in effect.
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Kantalla
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PostSubject: Re: New FAQ - Factions   Fri Nov 25 2016, 06:14

@amorrowlyday wrote:
The battle brothers restriction is still there, and while this whole forum disagreed with me...
That's not true - some of us could see there was a conflict with the graphic showing them as Battle Brothers and the text going the other way. It's good they removed the silliest consequences of blocking Battle Brothers from embarking.

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Jimsolo
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PostSubject: Re: New FAQ - Factions   Fri Nov 25 2016, 06:34

As long as you aren't playing under the Eldar-hating ITC FAQs, you can get a little love with Corsair psyker powers out of this, I think.
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aurynn
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PostSubject: Re: New FAQ - Factions   Fri Nov 25 2016, 08:18

Well I never thought it would actually be used for deploying in transports, because of the sequence of how the units are deployed and ICs placed. Correct me if I am wrong, but you first deploy units and transports and THEN deploy ICs. Therefore it could arguably only be used at units coming from reserves.

My point was more regarding the CWE Avatar and other faction-related buffs. Like certain Warlord traits. I did not have time yet to mull through DE/CWE/Corsair/Harlies dexes, but I think there will be some hidden gems...
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Ynneadwraith
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PostSubject: Re: New FAQ - Factions   Fri Nov 25 2016, 09:50

@Jimsolo wrote:
As long as you aren't playing under the Eldar-hating ITC FAQs, you can get a little love with Corsair psyker powers out of this, I think.

Are you thinking of Webway Breach? 'Corsair Units not locked in combat can enter Ongoing Reserves'...

@aurynn wrote:
Well I never thought it would actually be used for deploying in transports, because of the sequence of how the units are deployed and ICs placed. Correct me if I am wrong, but you first deploy units and transports and THEN deploy ICs. Therefore it could arguably only be used at units coming from reserves.

My point was more regarding the CWE Avatar and other faction-related buffs. Like certain Warlord traits. I did not have time yet to mull through DE/CWE/Corsair/Harlies dexes, but I think there will be some hidden gems...

Ah, I see. That would rule out anything not coming in from reserves.

Are there any warlord traits that state 'Dark Eldar Units' or something else like that?

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Count Adhemar
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PostSubject: Re: New FAQ - Factions   Fri Nov 25 2016, 09:51

It's worth noting that the FAQ answer is to a specific question and I don't think we can, or should, take it as a blanket statement in all circumstances.

Q: If a unit consists of more than one Faction, what Faction does the unit count as when targeted by a unit with a Preferred Enemy or Hatred ability that affects one of the Factions in that unit?
A: They count as having all the Factions of the models in the unit.

The RAW situation is that an IC joining a unit becomes part of the unit for all rules purposes. The reverse is not the case. I would therefore consider, for example, a Craftworld Eldar IC joined to a DE unit to be a DE unit other than in the specific instance of being targeted by a unit with Preferred Enemy or Hatred, in which case it would count as both CWE and DE as per the FAQ.

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aurynn
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PostSubject: Re: New FAQ - Factions   Fri Nov 25 2016, 10:08

Ofc, Count is right in that regard. Anyyyhooow... can be argued as per RAI. :-D
I know, I know, coming from me it sounds like hypocrisy, but still... Twisted Evil
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Ynneadwraith
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PostSubject: Re: New FAQ - Factions   Fri Nov 25 2016, 10:47

Ah, so you're right...

Ah well. Didn't seem like we had too many shenanigans to pull with that anyway Wink

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amorrowlyday
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PostSubject: Re: New FAQ - Factions   Fri Nov 25 2016, 17:09

The main rulebook explicitly states that a unit consists of all factions which make it up, so the hatred ruling is not in question. The implications of IC's ability to change the faction designation of a unit, which has always been fact, and thereby allow for IC's to tag along in units they are attached to's vehicle of choice, and how that rule interacts with the FAQ answers to the 2 battlebrothers in transports related questions is the issue at hand. @aurynn is completely off base as to how deployment occurs.
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aurynn
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PostSubject: Re: New FAQ - Factions   Sat Nov 26 2016, 09:49

I said "correct me if I am wrong" and I meant it. Never memorized the sequence. :-) Could you clear that up?

Could you also point me to the rule in BRB saying that the unit consists of all factions that make it up? It might come in handy.
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amorrowlyday
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PostSubject: Re: New FAQ - Factions   Sat Nov 26 2016, 21:54

I'm sorry, while I'm certain I'm right I can't find it, tho I have found 3 rules that can't all be followed without it being the case. Per the IC USR the IC counts as part of the unit for ALL rules purposes which wouldn't be happening if we ignored the IC's faction.

Edit: found it. FAQ page 11 column 2 question 2


Last edited by amorrowlyday on Sat Nov 26 2016, 22:00; edited 1 time in total
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Count Adhemar
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PostSubject: Re: New FAQ - Factions   Sat Nov 26 2016, 21:56

@amorrowlyday wrote:
I'm sorry, while I'm certain I'm right I can't find it, tho I have found 3 rules that can't all be followed without it being the case. Per the IC USR the IC counts as part of the unit for ALL rules purposes which wouldn't be happening if we ignored the IC's faction.

He counts as part of the unit, ie he has the unit's faction. Nothing about the reverse being true.

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amorrowlyday
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PostSubject: Re: New FAQ - Factions   Sat Nov 26 2016, 22:01

We are in agreement, I found what I'm looking for and edited my post accordingly.
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