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Draco
Kabalite Warrior
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PostSubject: FAQ Update.   Tue Nov 22 2016, 17:47

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StreetsAhead
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PostSubject: Re: FAQ Update.   Tue Nov 22 2016, 18:30

Well that is great news! Gun Boats ahoy!!
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Jimsolo
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PostSubject: Re: FAQ Update.   Tue Nov 22 2016, 18:33

Read em and leak salt water, mon-keigh!
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fisheyes
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PostSubject: Re: FAQ Update.   Tue Nov 22 2016, 18:44

The main things I noticed (besides this) are

-twin linked plasma now allows re-rolls of 1's like the old days

-Slow and Purposeful can be transfered to a squad with an IC. I can think of a few units who would love SaP

This topic also being discussed at

http://www.thedarkcity.net/t14577-final-faq-de-and-snap-shooting
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Count Adhemar
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PostSubject: Re: FAQ Update.   Wed Nov 23 2016, 07:25

Did you notice that GW gave a shout out to the guys at Frontline Gaming (ie, ITC) for help with some of the FAQ answers. It seems they are indeed taking this seriously now.

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Ultimatejet
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PostSubject: Re: FAQ Update.   Wed Nov 23 2016, 13:55

Let me take (back) Raiders and Trueborns in the shelf Razz
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RedRegicide
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PostSubject: Re: FAQ Update.   Wed Nov 23 2016, 14:43

Still can't move more than 6" with our gunboats but this is a HUGE improvement Smile

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fisheyes
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PostSubject: Re: FAQ Update.   Wed Nov 23 2016, 14:52

I am suprised nobody else is miffed about loosing our razorwings. Can no longer shoot blasts at fliers/FMCs any more. Really hurts their usefulness...

And to be perfectly frank, I shoot from jinking vehicles once every other game. Not that big for me (although I dont go as much MSU as others, which will now change)
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Painjunky
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PostSubject: Re: FAQ Update.   Wed Nov 23 2016, 21:57

@fisheyes wrote:
And to be perfectly frank, I shoot from jinking vehicles once every other game. Not that big for me (although I dont go as much MSU as others, which will now change)

This rule didn't really bother me either. I'm glad its gone but never understood the fuss.

A loaded skimmer is an exploded skimmer surrounded by the corpses of its former passengers in my META.

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Massaen
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PostSubject: Re: FAQ Update.   Thu Nov 24 2016, 02:43

100% agree with painjunky

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megatrons2nd
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PostSubject: Re: FAQ Update.   Thu Nov 24 2016, 14:55

Yes, Vehicles are far to fragile in this game. They all need to double the amount of HP it has. Change the chart to be:


Random Roll Modifiers:
-2 for glancing hits.
+1 for AP 2
+2 for AP 1

less than 1 no effect
1: Shaken
2: Stunned
3: Stunned lose a hull point
4: Weapon destroyed lose a hull point
5: Immobilized Vehicle loses 2 hull points
6: Vehicle becomes a wreck
Greater than 7: Vehicle Explodes

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CptMetal
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PostSubject: Re: FAQ Update.   Thu Nov 24 2016, 15:00

Someone said that monstrous creatures can't get a cover save by putting a foot into area terrain anymore. Is that legit?
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fisheyes
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PostSubject: Re: FAQ Update.   Thu Nov 24 2016, 16:01

The MC/terrain thing is still a little contentious unfortunately.
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Ynneadwraith
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PostSubject: Re: FAQ Update.   Thu Nov 24 2016, 16:33

It does say this:

Quote :
Q: Some pieces of terrain (woods, ruins, craters, etc.) provide a
cover save to a models even if they are not 25% obscured. Does
this really include large models like Monstrous Creatures?
A: No. Just like Vehicles, Monstrous Creatures and
Gargantuan Creatures are not obscured simply for being
inside terrain such as woods or ruins

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fisheyes
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PostSubject: Re: FAQ Update.   Thu Nov 24 2016, 17:29

IDK, I saw somewhere people were still debating this passage. I rarely run into this, so I didnt pay much attention.
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CptMetal
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PostSubject: Re: FAQ Update.   Thu Nov 24 2016, 20:04

So it only works for Infantry and Infantry size models. Good to know. Pretty straight forward.
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Painjunky
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PostSubject: Re: FAQ Update.   Thu Nov 24 2016, 21:41

Seems straight forward to me too.

The FAQ forcing super heavies and GMC to pick targets for their weapon BEFORE shooting is the big news tho.

If you've ever played with and without this rule you will know what I'm talking about. Very Happy
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Causalis
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PostSubject: Re: FAQ Update.   Thu Nov 24 2016, 21:54

Quote :
Yes, Vehicles are far to fragile in this game. They all need to double the amount of HP it has

To be fair, if you would shoot with a machine gun at the front of a jeep it would also break. Same is happening when Marines fire their Bolters at our flimsy Venoms.

Where I have to agree with you is that the damage table should be altered. It is just way too easy to explode a vehicle.

I also never understood glancing hits. How do these damage the vehicle? They don't penetrate the armour of that Land Raider so how in the big E's name do they damage it? Scratch its paintjob and the moping machine spirit just goes on tilt?

I've heard rumors that monstrous creatures will get a damage table akin to those of Age Of Sigmar, where they become less effective the more wounded they are. I could imagine the same for vehicles.
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Ynneadwraith
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PostSubject: Re: FAQ Update.   Thu Nov 24 2016, 22:05

I, for one, hope they don't give MCs and vehicles multiple stat-lines based on their remaining wounds/HP. People have to remember enough as it is!

I'd also agree that vehicles need to be made at least a little more durable. Maybe fewer glancing hits strip off HP? Would mean you'd have to bring more dedicated AT weaponry to get rid of tanks, although it would hurt our HWB Scourges...

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amorrowlyday
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PostSubject: Re: FAQ Update.   Thu Nov 24 2016, 22:15

That isn't particularly easy for them to resolve. as is an av10 vehicle is functionally identical to a t6 creature from a wounding angle. the real issue isn't even getting glances it's how easy, and effective, penning is for all non-super heavy vehicles.
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Ultimatejet
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PostSubject: Re: FAQ Update.   Fri Nov 25 2016, 10:27

In my opinion Venoms and Raiders are ok (anyway Raiders should be cheaper). The main problem are the other armies. Guys like Eldar, Tau or Marines are FULL of S6/7/8 weapons and they hurt our vehicles BAD. There are too much S6+ guns in this game for our transports
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fisheyes
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PostSubject: Re: FAQ Update.   Mon Nov 28 2016, 13:05

Eh, I think that we just need to stop comparing our tanks to 35 pt rhinos.

Yes, an rhino is better/cheaper than our transports under some conditions. However, our transports can actually kill stuff all on their own. Even razorbacks dont put out the same hurt as a standard Dissie raider. And even though we are AV 10 we have a few HP, and combined with jink it is actually fairly survivable.

Of course broken lists are still broken, and scattbikes are just better than everything else.
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megatrons2nd
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PostSubject: Re: FAQ Update.   Mon Nov 28 2016, 21:24

@fisheyes wrote:
Eh, I think that we just need to stop comparing our tanks to 35 pt rhinos.

Yes, an rhino is better/cheaper than our transports under some conditions. However, our transports can actually kill stuff all on their own. Even razorbacks dont put out the same hurt as a standard Dissie raider. And even though we are AV 10 we have a few HP, and combined with jink it is actually fairly survivable.

Of course broken lists are still broken, and scattbikes are just better than everything else.

Pros/Cons of the Raider vs Rhino

Rhino actually protects passengers

Rhino's passengers receive less damage from an explosion than the open topped Raider. An exploding fully enclosed vehicle is a deathtrap, no matter how tough you are, you are meat under pressure.

The Rhino gets 2 tries to take down a Raider per turn vs an extra 12" range of the Raider

The low profile of the Rhino gives it a better capability to get a cover save, and doesn't force it to snap shot when it gets that cover save.

The Rhino can fix itself.

The Rhino is only vulnerable to small arms fire from the rear, and S6 weapons are largely ignored from the front. The Raider is vulnerable to S4 fire at the same rate, but the volume of S4 fire is 10 fold that of S6 fire.

The Rhino is 0 points 50% of the time.

The Raider gets "Jink" while providing a cover save, also hampers attacks for the following turn.

The Raider can ignore Terrain for the purposes of movement.

The Raider is "fast" which is now largely a useless designation.

The Raider has an anti-armor weapon or anti heavy infantry weapon. The Rhino can have both with the hunter killer missile or whatever it is called now.


This just off the top of my head.

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fisheyes
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PostSubject: Re: FAQ Update.   Tue Nov 29 2016, 12:26

@megatrons2nd, I played SM for over a decade, I have a very intimate relationship with the rhino. Trust me, I know the ins-and-outs of this fantastic vehicle Wink. Even so, the raider has many advantages going for it, espeically after this FAQ.

Mostly the increased movement, durability (from jink) and the ability to DS just make the standard raider awesome. The trap that people fall into is that they only take 2-3 of them, and then get annoyed when they all blow up. Even though we are x2 the price of the lowly rhino, we still need to take our transports in similar numbers. So long as we are going rhino to raider (keeping in mind that the SM troops cost x2 what our warriors cost), we really should come out on top of that exchange.

At least in my mind. Every meta is different, and every player/opponent has different skill levels.
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megatrons2nd
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PostSubject: Re: FAQ Update.   Tue Nov 29 2016, 12:46

The "durability" from jink is worse than riding up behind cover, as mentioned above, and the cover doesn't hurt your to hits at all. The increased movement is a lie, at least if you actually want to use the weapon we pay a premium for. Move 12" during the movement phase, for both, snap shots for them, but don't worry, they get rerolls, or move in the shooting phase and not shoot.

Deep Strike is nice, but largely a death sentence, as we have no scatter protection for the bulk of our vehicles, and again S4 weapons abound. Since the new rules came out, I've not had a single Raider make it past 4 turns on the board, either from Deep Strikes, barreling in, flanking, back field dodging, attempting to use cover.....

It's why I don't play much anymore. Our unit are over priced for their capabilities, with a few that are not.

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