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 How to loadout my alpha strick Archon

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Subsanity
Kabalite Warrior
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PostSubject: How to loadout my alpha strick Archon   Tue Nov 22 2016, 12:58

Hello fellow Archons
I have bought a new Archon and am wondering how to load him up. The old one is loaded with an agnizor, parasites kiss, WWP and SF making him stupid expensive.
He is dropping in with 6 scourges with 4 heat lances and a succubuss with an agnizor. He works well loaded this way but I feel its just too expinsave.
Is it abnormal to have such a pricey Archon? Or should I just load him up with a blaster and WWP then call it a day? However if I load him with a blaster part of me wants to give the scourges a blaster as well just to keep the dice rolls simple lol help me out here I can't make up my mind.
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fisheyes
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PostSubject: Re: How to loadout my alpha strick Archon   Tue Nov 22 2016, 13:27

You are running a non-standard unit here, so our advise will probably be along the lines of "change everything". So please take any advise with a grain of salt. If this works for you, than it works.

However, please note that our units are best when at minimal point investment (using MSU or Multiple Small Unit tactics). To do this, we generally optimize our units (for either CC or shooting)

What you have here is a very expensive IC who can do both OK. He wont be killing terminators in CC, nor will he be killing tanks in his shooting. I would recomend foccusing on one aspect, and ignore the other.

Also, scourges are a very strange bodyguard unit. Yes they have a lot of dakka, but they are fragile as glass. Also, they can DS on their own, so why put the WWP in there at all? (yes, I know, no scatter, blah blah blah)
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Draco
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PostSubject: Re: How to loadout my alpha strick Archon   Tue Nov 22 2016, 13:32

I agree with fisheyes. Pretty much everything you are trying to do can be done a little better, and cheaper in a different way.

Maybe let the Scourges go alone, and put the Archon with a squad of Incubi or something via WWP. And it looks like you plan on using two HQ slots in the same unit?
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PostSubject: Re: How to loadout my alpha strick Archon   Tue Nov 22 2016, 13:39

The succubuss and archon are the only CC I have. The rest is venoms, kabalites, blaster born, mandrakes and razorwings. The WWP is just to get them downfield. I am consittering dropping CC all togeather and makibg the archon a delivery system with a blaster so I have 5 blaster shots with the scourges. Unfortunately my meta is 1200 pts and im out of transports unless I drop 5 kab out of a venom for the archon and succubuss.
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PostSubject: Re: How to loadout my alpha strick Archon   Tue Nov 22 2016, 14:19

Thus far when I drop them in the scourges do a good job of poping the tank then the succubuss and archon do a good job of killing what comes out of the tank.
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Squidmaster
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PostSubject: Re: How to loadout my alpha strick Archon   Tue Nov 22 2016, 14:20

Ok. If you're set on using them with Scourges, he needs to be retolled as a shooting Archon.

My recommendation is a Blast Pistol, so you can also get an attack bonus if you choose to go witha combat weapon, and some Haywire Grenades.
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ArchonGuardsman
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PostSubject: Re: How to loadout my alpha strick Archon   Tue Nov 22 2016, 14:48

If you are jiving on this unit one way to make it more survivable is keep the shadowfield on the Archon and give the Succubus the WWP. The Archon can shield the squad from the reprisal of the unit whose ride you shellacked, look out sir-ing to any poor shmuck when something that would cause instant death rolls in. Then give the Succubus the Glaive of AP2 and thus you have a decent chance of at least pestering whatever falls out of the hole you blow in the tank.

Side note: This is the first time I have heard of a meta that floats around 1200, what kind of builds do you see?
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PostSubject: Re: How to loadout my alpha strick Archon   Tue Nov 22 2016, 14:55

Right now im playing against necron, chaos and tau. We are all learning and the only vetrin is the chaos player.
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PostSubject: Re: How to loadout my alpha strick Archon   Tue Nov 22 2016, 14:56

Is the blaster not the same points as the blast pistol and have assault as well? If i drop the succubuss and go with clone field wwp and blaster I can keep a bit of range and possably add another razorwing.
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PostSubject: Re: How to loadout my alpha strick Archon   Tue Nov 22 2016, 15:11

The blaster and blast pistol are the same points, both are assault. The advantage of the pistol is the extra attack in CC. And if you are thinking of dropping the succubus it might be better indeed to boost your shooting power by grabbing a flyer to counter the loss of effectiveness in the CC squad.

What style of armies do you play against?
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PostSubject: Re: How to loadout my alpha strick Archon   Tue Nov 22 2016, 15:33

Mainly shooty with some cc.
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fisheyes
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PostSubject: Re: How to loadout my alpha strick Archon   Tue Nov 22 2016, 16:22

Clone field is not very good on a T3 character.

Please keep in mind that you are buying a 150 pt scourge squad with 4 blasters, then putting a character worth 150 pts with 1 blaster shot. Scourges can DS without the WWP (they have wings!). If you are looking for pure dakka, I think you are better off just getting more scourges.

If you are set on the WWP archon, what about blaster-born? At least you can get some extra wounds in a large squad with them.
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PostSubject: Re: How to loadout my alpha strick Archon   Tue Nov 22 2016, 22:31

I agree with fish eyes if you want and invulnerable save you can probably do better than a clone field.
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RedRegicide
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PostSubject: Re: How to loadout my alpha strick Archon   Tue Nov 22 2016, 23:14

Hey, here's my two cents:

If you WW scourges, its to heat lance, otherwise, give them haywire blasters so that they have enough range to hit their target even if they scatter.

I think its important to either have melee or ignores cover weapons. So either tool out that succubus with a retinue and send her in or get some medusae.

I usually have either A. Archon w/ WW, SF, Agoniser or haywire grenades. Agoniser if he is going with my medusae/sslyth court and haywire grenades if hes going in with scourges/blasterborn

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PostSubject: Re: How to loadout my alpha strick Archon   Wed Nov 23 2016, 00:31

All good advise and I thank you all. Right now the scourges are kitted with HWB. The only thing I have had issues with is after they are done with the tank they are useless. In my 1200 point games I may see one or two tanks. I personally love they HWB. I am starting to think it would be best for me to keep the Archon and Succubuss CC and just add another venom for them....
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fisheyes
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PostSubject: Re: How to loadout my alpha strick Archon   Wed Nov 23 2016, 16:03

The HWB are our best bet to kill HP. Considering that is our max AT weapon range, why bother DS at all? Set them up on the board, then hop forward and engage at 24". You get an extra turn of shooting, and it frees up points for other stuff.
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PostSubject: Re: How to loadout my alpha strick Archon   Wed Nov 23 2016, 21:53

Deep striking them makes it almost certain that you will get one round of shooting off before they are killed. I don't think the WWP is necessary once you get used to the scatter (scattering more than 9" is very rare), but having an extra haywire shot (haywire grenade) from the Archon would help a ton for chances to kill a vehicle.

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Painjunky
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PostSubject: Re: How to loadout my alpha strick Archon   Thu Nov 24 2016, 11:19

Unless your willing to buy some (a lot of) reavers or talos or create some grotesques don't even bother including a CC option or CC characters in your army at all.

A succubus and an archon in the same list is a huge waste of points. Many would argue that any DE HQ except for a 10 point lamy is a huge waste of points.

If you have to include an archon drop the succy, give him a blaster and let him ride with your trueborn. The scourges will do fine without a WWP and you will save a ton of points.
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Scrz
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PostSubject: Re: How to loadout my alpha strick Archon   Thu Nov 24 2016, 13:46

If you get your hands on a raider you can give your archon a blaster and WWP, and deep strike him in with the blasterborn. If the tables you play on has a decent amount of cover, you can often find a spot back field where only limited numbers of the enemy units can fire back at you. Then you can park there with a decent cover save and jink, shoot, laugh, repeat.
Give the raider night shields if you have the points, and just keep the disintegrator since you probably will be jinking anyway.
If your opponent knows what he is doing he will prioritize getting rid of them, so use that to your advantage to draw him out of position or disrupt his plans.
Keep him cheap and don't forget to reroll his shot due to high BS.

Scourges are not entirely useless after all the tanks are gone IMO. They just become a LOT more expendable. Smile
They are still very mobile ( go grab those objectives ), they get a hammer of wrath attack in CC and eventually furious charge. And they still have grenades, i think? Go and bully those objective campers your opponent has hid away or tie up something for that one crucial turn.
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PostSubject: Re: How to loadout my alpha strick Archon   Thu Nov 24 2016, 15:03

A side point. If you really to want to use your succubus-archon unit, I would recommand not to pick them as your warlord. Your unit will be a huge fire-magnet and won't live very long. Don't give away the "slay the warlord" point in addition.
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fisheyes
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PostSubject: Re: How to loadout my alpha strick Archon   Thu Nov 24 2016, 16:08

Ya, there is a "tactic" of using a Grot Bomb (7-8 grotesques with 1-2 CC ICs) if you are set on using dual HQs. Grots have nice toughness, and an archon can bring a SF.

Although this "tactic" technically exists, its not very good.
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PostSubject: Re: How to loadout my alpha strick Archon   Thu Nov 24 2016, 16:31

Are pure shooty MSU viable? My girl plays harlquin if I really need CC I could just take one of her units. I can just focus on shooty for my army.
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fisheyes
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PostSubject: Re: How to loadout my alpha strick Archon   Thu Nov 24 2016, 17:36

Yes it is. In fact, I would say its the ONLY MSU build Wink

5 man (women?) wych squads would just suck...
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PostSubject: Re: How to loadout my alpha strick Archon   Thu Nov 24 2016, 19:08

Pure shooting is viable but it's always better to add one though anvil unit.

I'm actually not sure, if witches are so bad.
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PostSubject: Re: How to loadout my alpha strick Archon   Thu Nov 24 2016, 20:40

Hmm now my question is where to put the archon do I drop him in or give him a venom lol
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