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 Ratio of MSU and Deathstar

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fisheyes
Wych
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PostSubject: Ratio of MSU and Deathstar   Tue Nov 22 2016, 12:26

Fellow Archons,

I have called this meeting to discuss the ratios of troops brought out on our raids of realspace. Lately I have been employing services of the local haemunculi, bringing some disposable flesh monsters on my raids to sow fear and confusion among our enemies as we collect our objectives.

This usually amounts to a Grotesquery and a Dark Artesian formation accompanied by a CAD (going full MSU). In my usual 1500 pt games, half my points are tied into the Coven formations, and half in a CAD full of venoms, etc.

After watching more of Skari's bat-reps, I have noticed that he NEVER takes two of these "deathstar-lite" formations (generally just the Grots). With the added points going into MSU, he is able to have enough venoms/raiders to block/bait/sacrifice early game and still have board presence later.

So my topic of discussion: How many points should be placed soley into MSU, and how many can EFFECTIVELY be tied into our stompy units? I am thinking that my current 5 transports + 3 random FA slot guys (taking up about half my list) isnt enough MSU to be truely MSU. Should I be dropping one of the Coven formations so that I can go MSU on 75% of my points, or am I just getting unlucky with my match-ups and 50% MSU is fine?

I look forward to plotting with you all

-Fisheyes
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Count Adhemar
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PostSubject: Re: Ratio of MSU and Deathstar   Tue Nov 22 2016, 14:27

I don't think it's necessarily about ratios and points values. The whole point of MSU is massive redundancy. You killed one of my units? Ohnoes! I'll just use one of the other 20+ units I have instead.

Personally. if I'm going MSU then I go all in. 630 points gets you 12 objective secured units (6 x 5 Kabalites in Venoms). Another 4 units from the HQ slots (Lhamaeans in Venoms) for another 150 points. Add in a cheap RSR detachment with minimum troops and HQ and fill out your fast attack with small units of Beasts. 6 units of 3 Khymerae plus minimum HQ and troops comes to only 270 points and gets you another 9 units! At that stage you have 25 units and are still only just over 1000 points so you've still got plenty left over for Grots/DA etc and to add in anything you need (AT, AA etc).

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Ynneadwraith
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PostSubject: Re: Ratio of MSU and Deathstar   Tue Nov 22 2016, 14:42

Ah, well that answers the question I was thinking: how MSU is MSU.

My current exodite list using as few additions as possible to the models I already have to make 1850pts comes in at 13 separate units (17 if I disembark, 19-20 if I divide up my Beast packs).

Compare that to 25 units at a little over 1000pts and that seems like a poor effort!

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fisheyes
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PostSubject: Re: Ratio of MSU and Deathstar   Tue Nov 22 2016, 16:28

So how much "deathstar" do you guys add to lists? I would be very surprised if I am the only one rocking the Grotesquery AND the DA.

I am willing to drop the DA, but after the money I spent on the Grotesquery, they damn well will be in every raid I embark on.

Also skewing my results: My main opponent are the Crons. Against them, the DA just wreck face. However, whenever I come up against a IK or any LOW it just gets stomped. Basically the same point cost, but at 1/4 the damage output and 1/2 the survivability.

I guess the question is: How many MSU units is "just enough"?
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Count Adhemar
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PostSubject: Re: Ratio of MSU and Deathstar   Tue Nov 22 2016, 16:45

Against Necrons I'd probably just take 4 or 5 Dark Artisans Smile

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fisheyes
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PostSubject: Re: Ratio of MSU and Deathstar   Tue Nov 22 2016, 17:40

TBH, the DA is almost TOO good vs crons. It just DS in the middle of them, and kills everything. His only real option is to have wraiths to counter charge. If they werent rocking the decurion I would feel bad. Almost Wink
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CptMetal
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PostSubject: Re: Ratio of MSU and Deathstar   Tue Nov 22 2016, 17:51

I take only one of them. Dark Artisan or Grotesquerie and fill the rest with MSU. Maybe add a deep striking Medusae Raider...
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fisheyes
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PostSubject: Re: Ratio of MSU and Deathstar   Tue Nov 22 2016, 19:31

That is what I thought. I assume most of you keep the Grots bare-bones, maybe some NS on the raiders or the occasional Aberation.

Its a shame that the two formations dont coordinate better. You would think that the FNP bubble from the chronos would be more useful...
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