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 Harleqiuns - Death Jester forced Move off the board

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mrmagoo
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PostSubject: Harleqiuns - Death Jester forced Move off the board   Fri Nov 11 2016, 15:58

Ok I ran into something at a tournament and wanted to know how you handle this.

I was playing straight Harlequins and I was placed against one of the top players in my area. He was running 2 Wolves stars. Each had 1 Character and 3-4 Thunder Calvary, and 4-5 Wolves. He went first and not having much shooting didn't do much to me. Since he didn't have much shooting I decided to play the shooting game turn 1 and 2 to weed him down and take him in CC on turn 3.

After he moved I found out that one of his Wolf Stars was NOT fearless and was scooting the edge of the table. I shot my Shadowseer with mask up next to them. Fired a my DeathJester and killed a single wolf. A the end of the turn I told him to make a leadership at -4 (of course I had to explain the -4). Once he failed I told him to run them off the board. This is where he started arguing about it. He said I couldn't tell them to go off the board. We called a judge over and the judge rules in my favor and the other guy was completely cool about. Didn't get mad, didn't like it, but he accepted it and moved on. I would like to have a better explanation for him next time though. He is a good player and for him to loose a 500 point unit to 1 wolf lose.

How do you explain this is legal?
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Ynneadwraith
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PostSubject: Re: Harleqiuns - Death Jester forced Move off the board   Fri Nov 11 2016, 16:44

I thought it was absolutely accepted that you can run units off the board with Death Jesters.

The rules state that you can choose which direction a unit falls back. There's no caveats saying that they can't run off the board, so if you can choose a direction where they run off the board then that's exactly what happens.

Nice shot BTW! I think the Death Jester needs a little medal painting on him for that Smile

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mrmagoo
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PostSubject: Re: Harleqiuns - Death Jester forced Move off the board   Fri Nov 11 2016, 16:58

You may be right, That is the exact thing I said but saying I can do it because the rules doesn't say I cant. If you pull a real rules lawyer he wouldn't except that.

It may be but in my area I really think I am the only Dark Eldar/Harlequin player. It may just be the fact that he lost a 500+ Point unit to a single shot. Caught him by Surprise? Like I said he took it gracefully after the Judge confirmed it.

Oh He got named a Spectre. Smile This happened before the Death Masque upgrades.
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CurstAlchemist
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PostSubject: Re: Harleqiuns - Death Jester forced Move off the board   Fri Nov 11 2016, 17:08

Well in all fairness it was his own tactical blunder as he placed the unit near the table edge. The way the rules are written there is nothing saying you can't choose to have them move off the table, and there is no FAQ/Errata that changes it, so it is as it is.

If he didn't have experience playing against Harlequins it would explain why he was careless enough to put a unit where he did, I bet he learned his lesson. There is an element of tactics in this game and positioning is important.
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mrmagoo
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PostSubject: Re: Harleqiuns - Death Jester forced Move off the board   Fri Nov 11 2016, 17:30

Understood, and yes this was his first time playing Harelquins and I did tell him up front that I get to choose which way they go.

Yes it was a learning experience and yes he will probably never be that close again.
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Korona
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PostSubject: Re: Harleqiuns - Death Jester forced Move off the board   Sat Nov 12 2016, 03:49

If he wonders what rule is being used it's in the "Fall Back" section of morale

Quote :
"If any model from a unit that is Falling Back moves into contact with a table edge, the
entire unit is removed from the game as casualties, as it scatters and flees the battle."

This combines with the "Death Is Not Enough" rule on the death jester which, as you know, allows you to override the direction of his fall back move and send him wherever you like.  In certain circumstances this can be incredibly powerful.  I used it vs a Tau player to demolish his flanks killing single models to make his fire warriors run off the board.
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KiloFiX
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PostSubject: Re: Harleqiuns - Death Jester forced Move off the board   Sat Nov 12 2016, 06:41

Normally. Units Fall Back towards their own table edge but it seems like the two rules combined might allow you to move a Falling Back Unit off the side? Am I reading it right?
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Massaen
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PostSubject: Re: Harleqiuns - Death Jester forced Move off the board   Sat Nov 12 2016, 08:46

That's correct - any table edge is a viable fall back point so DinE works just fine in the scenario you presented.

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Jimsolo
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PostSubject: Re: Harleqiuns - Death Jester forced Move off the board   Sat Nov 12 2016, 15:08

That is arguably the intent of the rule.
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Massaen
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PostSubject: Re: Harleqiuns - Death Jester forced Move off the board   Sun Nov 13 2016, 03:50

There is no argument to be had. The rules are clear.

The DinE rule allows you to choose the direction of fall back and the rules tell us

"If any model from a unit that is Falling Back moves into contact with a table edge, the
entire unit is removed from the game as casualties, as it scatters and flees the battle."

Its ANY table edge - not just their table edge.

There is no room for any other interpretation I can see

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mrmagoo
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PostSubject: Re: Harleqiuns - Death Jester forced Move off the board   Mon Nov 14 2016, 16:07

Thanks everyone, I honestly thing he had just never run into it and was Debating it without really ever running into it. He probably went home and investigated it and hopefully came to the same conclusion.

Thanks all
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DEfan
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PostSubject: Re: Harleqiuns - Death Jester forced Move off the board   Wed Nov 16 2016, 09:05

Yay! A greater appreciation of Harlequin Leadership based attacks has been spread! I keep hoping to pull off Death Is Not Enough but no such luck yet. I like to announce the DJ with Grand Expectations:

"This is DJ (point with flashy jazz hands). He is  na-ah-stee. You know how most units have to take a leadership check when they take 25% casualties? Yeah? This guy (cackle, cackle) gets you to take a check after ONE casualty (extend finger proudly)! And that check is at minus 2 to your regular leadership (extend fingers proudly)!! AND if you fail that check (pause...), I get to tell you which way to fall back! It's all because that Shrieker Cannon he's toting makes a real frightening mess of it's target!"

Everyone should know what happens when a unit runs makes contact with a board edge. Except marine players who shall not know rules. Great play man, I so badly want to pull this off!!

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mrmagoo
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PostSubject: Re: Harleqiuns - Death Jester forced Move off the board   Thu Nov 17 2016, 13:58

I have had 2 Good Death is not enough incidents. 1 Being the one listed above. The other was a Necron player who deployed 2 20 Man Warrior units in Dawn of war. I went first, did the same thing as above. Moved Shadow Seer up 12, then turbo boosted in beteween both squads. Death Jester killed 1 in one squad and then I put enough fire in the other to force a test. He failed both and both ran off the board.

Now that above is no longer a viable tactic since characters abilities like that no longer effect outside of transports. The shadow seer is going to have to get out of the Vehicle for it to work. Sad
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