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 Jinking and units deploying from vehicle. Do they still snap fire?

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smith1186
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PostSubject: Jinking and units deploying from vehicle. Do they still snap fire?   Sat Nov 05 2016, 22:37

Ok so if my unit of kabalites were in a raider that jinked but then deployed from the raider the following turn, do they still snap fire or shoot at full BS?

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Marrath
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PostSubject: Re: Jinking and units deploying from vehicle. Do they still snap fire?   Sun Nov 06 2016, 04:40

In the half official FAQ it says they can only fire snapshots in their next turn.
If i remember correctly.
And that will probably stay.

I wish we could at least get an Initiative or morale check to possibly avoid Ballistic Skill 1.

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Kantalla
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PostSubject: Re: Jinking and units deploying from vehicle. Do they still snap fire?   Sun Nov 06 2016, 12:29

The draft FAQ has two relevant answers:

Q: Does a unit that is embarked on a Transport that Jinks also count as having Jinked in the following Shooting phase?
A: Yes.

Q: Are passengers in Jinking Transports forced to fire Snap Shots?
A: Yes.

If you disembark, then you are neither embarked on a Transport that Jinks, or in a Jinking Tranport, so you should be fine to fire at normal ballistic skill.

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Squidmaster
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PostSubject: Re: Jinking and units deploying from vehicle. Do they still snap fire?   Sun Nov 06 2016, 12:59

I think that will be argued.

It doesn;t matter if you disembark, because the ruling doesn't mention disembarking. It says clearly that a unit embark on a transport that jinks also counts as having jinked in the following shooting phase. It does not matter if they disembark, or if the transport is destroyed. If they are on a transport at the time it jinks, then the unit counts as having jinked in the following shooting phase, so can only fire snap shots.
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smith1186
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PostSubject: Re: Jinking and units deploying from vehicle. Do they still snap fire?   Sun Nov 06 2016, 14:13

@Kantalla wrote:

Q: Does a unit that is embarked on a Transport that Jinks also count as having Jinked in the following Shooting phase?
A: Yes.

Q: Are passengers in Jinking Transports forced to fire Snap Shots?
A: Yes.

If we use RAW as our basis then the unit would not fire snap shots because both rule refers to being embarked or in a transport as a prerequisite to the rest of the rule.

First rule stating that 'unit that is embarked on a transport' while the second rule states that 'passengers in Jinking Transports'. So in both instances, the unit has to still be in a transport for the snap shots due to jink to apply.

Plus it just doesn't make sense for a unit to still fire snap shots after they have deployed unless they are pinned.

I mean these are also Eldar too, so they are supposed to have insane reflexes anyway.

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The Red King
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PostSubject: Re: Jinking and units deploying from vehicle. Do they still snap fire?   Sun Nov 06 2016, 14:55

Well actually if you look at the jink rule it says "a unit containing a model with... etc. If the unit jinks ALL MODELS WITH THIS SPECIAL RULE gain a 4+ cover save until the start of their next movement phase but they can only fire snap shots until the end of their next turn"

So a unit that was embarked on a jinking transport would count as having jinked but that would not affect them as only models with the special rule in the "jinking unit" would gain the cover save which is prerequisite to the snap firing according to its wording.

Example, if you join an Archon to a unit of reavers for whatever reason and they are the targets of a shooting attack. You jink. The unit as a whole has jinked. The reavers, per their special rule "jink" gain a 4+ cover save but are forced to snap fire. The archon, again per the wording of jink, gains no cover save despite definitely being part of a jinking unit and does not Snapfire as he does not have the jink rule wherein the penalty lies.

Summary; the forced to snap fire if you jink is only in the rulebook under the special rule "jink" which specifically states what it does to models that have the rule themselves and not the entire unit.

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PostSubject: Re: Jinking and units deploying from vehicle. Do they still snap fire?   Sun Nov 06 2016, 15:33

Q: Does a unit that is embarked on a Transport that Jinks also count as having Jinked in the following Shooting phase?
A: Yes.

So the unit counts as having jinked. Disembarking doesn't change that.

The poorly worded rule is explained.
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PostSubject: Re: Jinking and units deploying from vehicle. Do they still snap fire?   Sun Nov 06 2016, 15:37

The unit "counts as having jinked". Well what does that mean?

So we refer to the rule "jink" which reads as stated above.

Thus the unit counts as having jinked but that in no way affects a model that does not have the jink special rule.

Now if they are still in the transport then the other faq answer clearly tells us they snap fire. But this one merely tells us they jinked.

I do not think it is RAI but strictly RAW you can count as jinking all day long and it still won't change the fact that the jink rule only applies benefits and penalties to a model that has the jink rule.

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PostSubject: Re: Jinking and units deploying from vehicle. Do they still snap fire?   Sun Nov 06 2016, 17:15

If they cannot count as jinked because they do not have the rule, the faq would be irrelevant.
Just sayin'
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PostSubject: Re: Jinking and units deploying from vehicle. Do they still snap fire?   Sun Nov 06 2016, 17:27

I think the FAQ was trying to focus specifically on units that remain in the transport after jinking.

Before the FAQ came out on that, I can remember people going up against my DE that were very peeved that the transport would snap-shoot but not the unit inside.

To be honest, it did feel a bit broken.

BTW, does anyone know how to send an email to GW's FAQ folk about this?

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Kantalla
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PostSubject: Re: Jinking and units deploying from vehicle. Do they still snap fire?   Sun Nov 06 2016, 19:12

I was a bit torn about the jink not affecting passengers pre-FAQ. It seemed a little strange to have no effect, but also a little strange that say a penetrating hit that stops the vehicle in its tracks causes less of a penalty than attempting to maneuver to be harder to hit.

You could add a comment on their Facebook page on the draft FAQ about that one.

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krayd
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PostSubject: Re: Jinking and units deploying from vehicle. Do they still snap fire?   Tue Nov 08 2016, 18:56

Technically, the draft FAQs aren't (yet) official. However, it has been adopted as official for all intents and purposes by at least some tourney organizations (ITC has not, as far as I know, however). Still, I don't foresee this particular ruling getting changed, so I would suggest playing it as official (unless you're in an ITC tourney, of course).


So, in most games you play in the near future, I would expect to have to count your infantry as being a bit dizzy after jumping out of a jinking vehicle, and thus, limited to snap-fire. 
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The Red King
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PostSubject: Re: Jinking and units deploying from vehicle. Do they still snap fire?   Tue Nov 08 2016, 18:59

I just want to reiterate that "counts as having jinked" has literally zero effect on a model that does not have the jink rule. The faq only specifies that passengers in a transport that jinked fire snap shots. If you are no longer a passenger then refer to the other answer which states you count as having jinked. Which again, doesn't do anything to models that don't have the jink rule.

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Count Adhemar
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PostSubject: Re: Jinking and units deploying from vehicle. Do they still snap fire?   Tue Nov 08 2016, 23:53

@The Red King wrote:
I just want to reiterate that "counts as having jinked" has literally zero effect on a model that does not have the jink rule. The faq only specifies that passengers  in a transport that jinked fire snap shots. If you are no longer a passenger then refer to the other answer which states you count as having jinked. Which again, doesn't do anything to models that don't have the jink rule.

Very much this. GW may have screwed us by breaking and/or not understanding their own rules with regard to how Jink works but there's no reason for us to screw ourselves too!

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