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KiloFiX
Hellion
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PostSubject: Killteam   Tue Oct 25 2016, 17:12

Thoughts on what to use for Killteam?

I'm sure Kabalites and maybe Trueborn will be staples but what about Grots, Beasts, Scourges, Mandrakes?
Or even Hellions?

I feel like Venoms and Reavers may be expensive and Overkill in model vs model (without Units).

Have an upcoming 200pt standard Killteam league coming up and looking for options - thanks!
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fisheyes
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PostSubject: Re: Killteam   Wed Oct 26 2016, 16:43

Look around, you will see that another guy did very well using mandrakes and reavers. I would assume that Beast (masters) would also do well, since they only cost 10 pts and can move very fast (while retaining decent shooting). Grots would be overkill, since you cannot get off Rampage, and move so slow.

What were you thinking about fielding/what do you have?
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Scrz
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PostSubject: Re: Killteam   Thu Oct 27 2016, 07:11

I am currently painting up a squad of mandrakes and a bunch of bikes for a kill team campaign.
You want your units to be mobile, durable and have OK damage output. Since there will be very limited ignore cover in kill team games, mandrakes and bikes should perform well if you have scenery on the board.
The bikes mobility is also very good for objectives or sniping key models, and since they have skilled rider you don't have to worry about crashing them into a tree if you want to hide them in terrain.
Both of them can deal with AV10 with a little luck, but poison can't even try, so I would only take a limited amount of warriors unless you and your opponent agree not to bring vehicles.
Another thing to consider is leadership and model count, since the break tests you have to make after you lose half your force are going to end you real fast. That is why you probably don't want to go all bikes, or bring too many expensive units in general.

Grots, too slow, too expensive and too low LD
Beasts, maybe the khymerae not sure about LD, also no ranged attacks, the beast master is OK.
Scourges, relatively fragile, expensive for what you get, not good against AV unless you pay even more, and have to make dangerous terrain tests.
Hellions, why not Zoid...bikes?


Last edited by Scrz on Thu Oct 27 2016, 07:13; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : Oh my gods the spelling...)
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Jimsolo
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PostSubject: Re: Killteam   Fri Oct 28 2016, 16:25

I ran five Reavers and four Incubi in my first game last night. Went pretty good! The Reavers are definitely awesome.
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KiloFiX
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PostSubject: Re: Killteam   Sat Oct 29 2016, 20:59

I was thinking Helions instead of Reavers as they are cheaper, can shoot twice before assault and Reaver cluster caltrops vs one single model might be overkill.
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Jimsolo
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PostSubject: Re: Killteam   Sun Oct 30 2016, 02:49

Reavers get higher Toughness, can Jink, and can Turboboost, which is why I went with them.  (They can also shoot twice before assault, if the enemy is within 12")

They can also get the assault move for being jet bikes.
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flakmonkey
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PostSubject: Re: Killteam   Sun Oct 30 2016, 03:42

@Jimsolo -How did your Incubi perform? DId you struggle to get them into combat and/or contribute to the game?
I'm gonna run similaur como of Incubi/reavers soon.

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Squidmaster
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PostSubject: Re: Killteam   Sun Oct 30 2016, 10:45

I'm currently playing in a Kill-Team league, and running three Warriors, three Mandrakes, and three Reavers.
Seems to be working quite well!
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KiloFiX
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PostSubject: Re: Killteam   Sun Oct 30 2016, 20:00

So what would you put on a Reavers? And would you take a Heavy or Special on Kabalites?

I'm wondering if Agonizer, Cluster or Blaster is too expensive on Reavers for Killteam.
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Speed Racer 42
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PostSubject: Re: Killteam   Mon Oct 31 2016, 02:40

I like cluster caltrops on 1 of my Ravers that I10 wraith is great when against 1 model and I run 1 reaver with blaster make that an eagle eye specialist. Adding another 9 inches to the blaster is sweet.
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Jimsolo
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PostSubject: Re: Killteam   Mon Oct 31 2016, 05:13

I took the Reavers with Cluster Caltrops (and upgraded one to an arena champ because I needed to make points).

@flakmonkey - I did indeed struggle to get them into CC. The Reavers got there lightning fast which put the target on their own backs, but still two of the incubi got eighty-sized before even getting into combat.

Still, the two who survived did pretty well. If I hadn't been facing 1k sons, they'd have carved through the guys they hit like butter.
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KiloFiX
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PostSubject: Re: Killteam   Mon Oct 31 2016, 17:55

What about a Splinter Cannon Kabalite with Reaping Volley vs mobs? Or would Eagle Eye or Sharpshooter be better?
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yukondal
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PostSubject: Re: Killteam   Tue Nov 01 2016, 05:05

I would give the splinter cannon relentless and the blaster eagle eye. (I don't have the book right here so I'm going off memory that those two are from different specialties.) That way you have one blaster that can shoot from 27" away and you can walk around your heavy weapon that has a good chance to take out one enemy model. 6 shots, on average 4 hits, 2 wounds, and if they have a 4+ save thats almost a guaranteed kill every time.
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KiloFiX
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PostSubject: Re: Killteam   Tue Nov 01 2016, 21:20

Arena Champ Reaver w/Agonizer
Reaver w/Caltrops
Reaver w/Heat Lance

9 Kabalites
Kabalite w/Splinter Cannon

And I'm 3 points over. What should I scale back on? Thanks!
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Seshiru
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PostSubject: Re: Killteam   Thu Nov 03 2016, 16:33

@KiloFiX wrote:
Arena Champ Reaver w/Agonizer
Reaver w/Caltrops
Reaver w/Heat Lance

9 Kabalites
Kabalite w/Splinter Cannon

And I'm 3 points over. What should I scale back on? Thanks!
I would drop 2 Kabalites and add one mandrake puts you 1 point under and adds stealth, shrouded and infiltrate.

Edit: assuming that works with the current Kill Team rules which I don't have.

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KiloFiX
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PostSubject: Re: Killteam   Thu Nov 03 2016, 19:01

Can't do that because you still have to buy whole units and unit constraints are still in effect. So can't have just 1 Mandrake. And dropping 2 Kabalites means I have to give up the Splinter Heavy Weapon.
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Scrz
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PostSubject: Re: Killteam   Fri Nov 04 2016, 06:06

@KiloFiX wrote:
Arena Champ Reaver w/Agonizer
Reaver w/Caltrops
Reaver w/Heat Lance

9 Kabalites
Kabalite w/Splinter Cannon

And I'm 3 points over. What should I scale back on? Thanks!

I would drop the arena champion with the agoniser and just take a regular guy. By that downgrade alone, you are almost able to buy a legal unit of 3 mandrakes ( still 1 over? ). I'd think long and hard about that heat lance as well.
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WrackYourBrains
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PostSubject: Re: Killteam   Fri Nov 04 2016, 10:29

Hey all. I thought I'd share my first kill-team experience with you guys. Inspired by the advice I found here while having a good old lurk, I played two games last night with the following list:

LIST:

1x Reaver w/ Blaster. Weapon Specialist - Sharpshooter (Ignores Cover)
1x Reaver w/ Blaster. Guerrilla Specialist - Preferred Enemy
2x Reaver w/ Cluster Caltrops
3x Reaver
1x Mandrake. Leader
1x Mandrake. Dirty Fighter Specialist - Exploit Weakness (CC Rending)
1x Mandrake

Thanks to @Draco and @Scrz for the inspiration, amongst others Smile

MINI REPORT:

I played two games against Noise Marines in a Rhino. All of the Ignores Cover shooting on the board put a bit a of a downer on my cover saves. First game was a heavy loss, but I managed to eek out a victory in the second.

Blaster Reavers: These guys were disappointing. They were, probably quite rightly, the highest priority for my opponent. I tried to be sneaky and jump-shoot-jump, but couldn't avoid all of his guns. In two games they managed three shots between them: one against the rhino and two against marines. They whiffed every time and failed to hit/wound.

Cluster Reavers: Perhaps benefiting from having fire drawn away from them by their Blaster-toting brothers, these guys put in a great shift. They also had all of the luck; the 1s and 2s rolled by my blasters were a stark contrast to the 5s and 6s rolled for my HoW attacks! In both games they one-shotted the Rhino in CC, and one of them splatted a marine with three (three!) rending wounds onto a guy with a sonic blaster (name?). Sadly they both died to overwatch the next time I tried to assault, but they did a good job.

Generic Reavers: Did fine. Hopped around unmolested taking pot shots and grabbing objectives, and darting in and out of CC with Hit and Run. Skilled Rider is SO GOOD. I landed in cover three or four times across the two games and rolled a 1 every time for my dangerous terrain check, but my re-roll saved me on each occasion.

Mandrakes: Did absolutely nothing. Ignores Cover shooting saw to it that they had to either stay out of LoS or die. One guy finally made it to CC but died to overwatch.

COMMENTS:

I think I'd run the same list again. I won't fight Noise Marines every week, so hopefully my guys will survive a little longer in general than they did yesterday. Over time the Blasters/Caltops will probably even out. Die variance cetainly skewed their numbers this time. In general, Reavers are a great buy. Turbo-boost, jump-shoot-jump, Skilled Rider, HoW, Combat rugs... these guys have a lot of great tools at their disposal.

It'd be great to hear how you guys get on with your lists too Smile I think generic Kabalites would be a little lacklustre, but I'd love to be proved wrong. Points-wise, one Reaver = 2 Warriors, and it just seems that you can do so much more with the bikes. What about Scourges? Anyone had any joy with those guys?

Edit: "Combat rugs". I'm leaving that one in there. lol!
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Count Adhemar
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PostSubject: Re: Killteam   Fri Nov 04 2016, 11:05

@WrackYourBrains wrote:
Generic Reavers: Did fine. Hopped around unmolested taking pot shots and grabbing objectives, and darting in and out of CC with Hit and Run. Skilled Rider is SO GOOD. I landed in cover three or four times across the two games and rolled a 1 every time for my dangerous terrain check, but my re-roll saved me on each occasion.

Unless there's something in the Kill Team rules to say otherwise, Skilled Rider is even better than you think as it makes you auto pass the dangerous terrain tests, not re-roll them.

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WrackYourBrains
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PostSubject: Re: Killteam   Fri Nov 04 2016, 11:23

Haha great, even better! Didn't make a difference in the end, but good to know, thanks.
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Draco
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PostSubject: Re: Killteam   Fri Nov 04 2016, 13:44

Glad to hear you had success! And yes, ignores cover is just brutal for that list.
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flakmonkey
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PostSubject: Re: Killteam   Sat Nov 05 2016, 06:31

Today I ran
3 Incubi
6 Reavers (2 blasters, 1 Caltrops and Arena Champion)
Specialists-
Incubi with Killer Instinct
Blaster Reaver with Infiltrate
Blaster Reaver with Eagle Eye

Played 4 games
1st game - Scat bikes and Warp Spiders
1 obj in middle of board, long range fire power messed me up. But managed to get a draw
2nd game - Daemons, bloodletter and Plague Bearers
This was Kill points, and I massacred them. Lost 1 model (maybe) and tabled him. All his assaults failed, and mine did well
3rd game - Scat bikes and Shining spears
Same as first game but with 2 objectives. Tried to move up and assault, got tabled by T3
4th game - Noise Marines
Kil points again, this was the only game where drugs were useful (T5 rocks). Ended up tabling him eventually. Got close towards the end, but the followers of She-Who-Thirsts got sent packing.

Bikes are ace, but pale in comparison to Scat bikes. Incubi hardly did anything, but the 3+ was handy.
Ignores cover was in every list I played against, so keep that in mind. But for me, 2 wins a draw and a loss is a ace result. Lots of fun.

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"Whereas the duty of the Imperial Commander is either to seize or defend territory, the Dark Eldar make war only to steal. If, as a by-product of this, the are able to indulge their vile passion for murder, torture and other decadent acts, then they will joyfully do so, but this is not their primary goal"
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WrackYourBrains
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PostSubject: Re: Killteam   Sat Nov 05 2016, 20:10

Congrats on the wins! It looks as though ignores cover shooting is something we'll have to deal with in most games then. It's a shame that we lose our jink saves, but maybe reavers are still our best option for avoiding damage because of the assault moves which can get us out of line of sight. Eagle Eye seems a popular choice to synergise with that tactic since it gives us extra range to play with, maybe I should give it a try instead of sharpshooter. Not happy about losing my only source of ignores cover of my own though...
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krayd
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PostSubject: Re: Killteam   Tue Nov 08 2016, 18:25

Played a kill team game vs. Plague Marines this weekend.

Took 6 reavers (blaster, 2 cluster caltrops, arena champ with power sword) and 3 mandrakes. Rolled the 'Alone in the Dark' mission, so I had 2+ jinking on the bikes for the entire game. However, plague marines are tough nuts to crack, so I ended up losing by 1 point. Still, the game went to Turn 6 and could have easily gone either way by the end.

I'm toying with the idea of taking a Kill Team of 4 Grotesques in a raider, using the Haemonculus supplement. Their LD won't be much of an issue, because they will be fearless by Turn 2. They can punch open any vehicles that you will encounter in a kill team environment. The only drawback is that they'll be slow when not embarked on the raider.
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Thrakmor Darkblade
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PostSubject: Re: Killteam   Tue Nov 08 2016, 20:53

@krayd are you sure you can use the covens PfP? Doesn't it require a covenite formation or detachment?
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