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 Tabletop Tactics' Lawrence Wins No Retreat III Tournament with Dark Eldar RSR

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Lord Johan
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PostSubject: Tabletop Tactics' Lawrence Wins No Retreat III Tournament with Dark Eldar RSR   Sat Oct 15 2016, 08:15

Video link.

Wonderful and inspiring viewing. Three cheers for the Spider!

Edit to add: For those who don't know, he also took NR I and II with single source Dark Eldar. This is one heck of an archon. Here the matchups were: I. Astra Militarum, II. SM III. Tau IV. Daemons V. CW Eldar. Video has list and tactics.
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Painjunky
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PostSubject: Re: Tabletop Tactics' Lawrence Wins No Retreat III Tournament with Dark Eldar RSR   Sun Oct 16 2016, 12:03

Magnificent work Lawrence!!! Soak it up, you've earned it.

On a personal note I have a similar army with 27 reavers (9x3 with caltrops and blasters) that has been wreaking face at my locals.

Sometimes you wonder when your winning with an army that the internet does not approve of.
I've been told, "its just your local meta, reaver spam can't compete at the big tournaments"  

You have proved that reaver spam IS a thing and HAS to be respected.
Thankyou Lawrence!!!
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PostSubject: Re: Tabletop Tactics' Lawrence Wins No Retreat III Tournament with Dark Eldar RSR   Sun Oct 16 2016, 18:03

People said the same thing about Buffmander + Plasma devs when I ran that in 6th. They said the same thing about the Freakshow. If you get crickets when you first suggest a new idea, you're probably on to something. If you get poo-poohed when you start to see some success, you've got a real winner on your hands.
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PostSubject: Re: Tabletop Tactics' Lawrence Wins No Retreat III Tournament with Dark Eldar RSR   Sun Oct 16 2016, 20:16

Have watched about half the video, so hopefully a bit more tactical discussion to see.

A couple of concerns about the list and tactics, which I may be misinterpreting were:
1) It sounded like he was excited about Reavers and rear armour with Caltrops and Bladevanes. Hammer of Wrath hits the facing charged, and not automatically rear armour. If that was being mis-played it would make his Reavers better than they should be. It is hard to judge whether he was able to attack from the rear, which is entirely possible, as we generally saw deployment and then after the battle.
2) The multi-levels squad in a building against Flamers doesn't work in 7th Edition. Sad Anything under the template is hit, rather than a single level like it used to.

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PostSubject: Re: Tabletop Tactics' Lawrence Wins No Retreat III Tournament with Dark Eldar RSR   Mon Oct 17 2016, 04:10

If its ITC - they use the 6th ed level rules...

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PostSubject: Re: Tabletop Tactics' Lawrence Wins No Retreat III Tournament with Dark Eldar RSR   Mon Oct 17 2016, 04:41

@Kantalla wrote:
Have watched about half the video, so hopefully a bit more tactical discussion to see.

A couple of concerns about the list and tactics, which I may be misinterpreting were:
1) It sounded like he was excited about Reavers and rear armour with Caltrops and Bladevanes. Hammer of Wrath hits the facing charged, and not automatically rear armour. If that was being mis-played it would make his Reavers better than they should be. It is hard to judge whether he was able to attack from the rear, which is entirely possible, as we generally saw deployment and then after the battle.
2) The multi-levels squad in a building against Flamers doesn't work in 7th Edition. Sad Anything under the template is hit, rather than a single level like it used to.

I watch the channel regularly and he uses reavers a lot, usually reports play by play, can confirm this he is very aware of HoW rules and moves accordingly. It is an ITC event, so ITC rules are in play - you must choose one level of a ruins affected by a template weapon, all levels are not hit.
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PostSubject: Re: Tabletop Tactics' Lawrence Wins No Retreat III Tournament with Dark Eldar RSR   Mon Oct 17 2016, 07:10

Makes perfect sense thanks for the clarification. Generally most good players are very aware of the rules, but occasionally changes between versions can result in oddities.

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PostSubject: Re: Tabletop Tactics' Lawrence Wins No Retreat III Tournament with Dark Eldar RSR   Mon Oct 17 2016, 12:08

Interesting. For those of us at work or unable to watch video, care to post his lists?
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PostSubject: Re: Tabletop Tactics' Lawrence Wins No Retreat III Tournament with Dark Eldar RSR   Mon Oct 17 2016, 16:04

If I have this right, the list for anyone at work is:

+++ Lawrence NR3 (1746pts) +++

++ Dark Eldar: Codex (2014) (DE Realspace Raiders Detachment) (1746pts) ++

+ HQ (195pts) +

Archon (195pts) [Agoniser, Blaster, Haywire Grenades, Kabalite Armour, The Armour of Misery]
····Venom [Grisly Trophies, Splinter Cannon]

+ Troops (675pts) +

Kabalite Warriors (135pts) [3x Kabalite Warrior]
····Kabalite Warrior with special weapon [Blaster]
····Sybarite [Close Combat Weapon, Haywire Grenades, Splinter Rifle]
····Venom [Splinter Cannon]

Kabalite Warriors (135pts) [3x Kabalite Warrior]
····Kabalite Warrior with special weapon [Blaster]
····Sybarite [Close Combat Weapon, Haywire Grenades, Splinter Rifle]
····Venom [Splinter Cannon]

Kabalite Warriors (135pts) [3x Kabalite Warrior]
····Kabalite Warrior with special weapon [Blaster]
····Sybarite [Close Combat Weapon, Haywire Grenades, Splinter Rifle]
····Venom [Splinter Cannon]

Kabalite Warriors (135pts) [3x Kabalite Warrior]
····Kabalite Warrior with special weapon [Blaster]
····Sybarite [Close Combat Weapon, Haywire Grenades, Splinter Rifle]
····Venom [Splinter Cannon]

Kabalite Warriors (135pts) [3x Kabalite Warrior]
····Kabalite Warrior with special weapon [Blaster]
····Sybarite [Close Combat Weapon, Haywire Grenades, Splinter Rifle]
····Venom [Splinter Cannon]

+ Fast Attack (876pts) +

Reavers (146pts) [2x Cluster caltrops, 4x Reaver]
····Reaver with special weapon (up to 1 for 3 models)
········Reaver jetbike [Blaster]
····Reaver with special weapon (up to 1 for 3 models)
········Reaver jetbike [Blaster]

Reavers (146pts) [2x Cluster caltrops, 4x Reaver]
····Reaver with special weapon (up to 1 for 3 models)
········Reaver jetbike [Blaster]
····Reaver with special weapon (up to 1 for 3 models)
········Reaver jetbike [Blaster]

Reavers (146pts) [2x Cluster caltrops, 4x Reaver]
····Reaver with special weapon (up to 1 for 3 models)
········Reaver jetbike [Blaster]
····Reaver with special weapon (up to 1 for 3 models)
········Reaver jetbike [Blaster]

Reavers (146pts) [2x Cluster caltrops, 4x Reaver]
····Reaver with special weapon (up to 1 for 3 models)
········Reaver jetbike [Blaster]
····Reaver with special weapon (up to 1 for 3 models)
········Reaver jetbike [Blaster]

Reavers (146pts) [2x Cluster caltrops, 4x Reaver]
····Reaver with special weapon (up to 1 for 3 models)
········Reaver jetbike [Blaster]
····Reaver with special weapon (up to 1 for 3 models)
········Reaver jetbike [Blaster]

Reavers (146pts) [2x Cluster caltrops, 4x Reaver]
····Reaver with special weapon (up to 1 for 3 models)
········Reaver jetbike [Blaster]
····Reaver with special weapon (up to 1 for 3 models)
········Reaver jetbike [Blaster]

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PostSubject: Re: Tabletop Tactics' Lawrence Wins No Retreat III Tournament with Dark Eldar RSR   Mon Oct 17 2016, 19:04

I always enjoy watching his batreps. Cool seeing him take a victory without resorting to the CtC.
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PostSubject: Re: Tabletop Tactics' Lawrence Wins No Retreat III Tournament with Dark Eldar RSR   Fri Nov 04 2016, 15:41

Congrats Lawrence!

I'm surprised by the choice of blasters over heatlances. Edit: on the reavers that is.
I think including a tooled out Archon is awesome

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PostSubject: Re: Tabletop Tactics' Lawrence Wins No Retreat III Tournament with Dark Eldar RSR   Sat Nov 05 2016, 06:52

My guess would be that although heatlances are superior AT (at 9" or less) the blasters' S8 is more useful against a variety of targets.
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PostSubject: Re: Tabletop Tactics' Lawrence Wins No Retreat III Tournament with Dark Eldar RSR   Sat Nov 05 2016, 09:51

And the range is higher so you have a better chance in using it I guess.

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PostSubject: Re: Tabletop Tactics' Lawrence Wins No Retreat III Tournament with Dark Eldar RSR   Mon Nov 07 2016, 18:34

Some notes on some controversial things from the video:

- He took Blasters over Heat Lances because of the range, which was important for his plan of alpha striking the enemy, and also because they're better "average" weapons vs different targets (that's my understanding of his use of the word average here)

- He took Sybarites with HWG and Kabalites with Blasters in every squad despite this not being advised by The Dark City, which he is aware of (even specifically said the name and that this is a good forum ), because he felt he needed the anti-tank redundancy, because of how much trouble Dark Eldar have dealing with armor, and considered that to be worth the investment in points

- He does not consider the Archon to be the optimal choice, which would instead be Lhamaean in Venom, and an extra Venom, but felt like he wanted to represent the archon in the game, and was happy to have a more resilient warlord than a Sybarite
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PostSubject: Re: Tabletop Tactics' Lawrence Wins No Retreat III Tournament with Dark Eldar RSR   Mon Nov 07 2016, 22:38

I agree with all his points.

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PostSubject: Re: Tabletop Tactics' Lawrence Wins No Retreat III Tournament with Dark Eldar RSR   Tue Nov 08 2016, 08:09

I agree most wholeheartedly with his argument of considering choices in context. One haywire grenade isn't so hot, but a whole boatload of them is significantly better.
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PostSubject: Re: Tabletop Tactics' Lawrence Wins No Retreat III Tournament with Dark Eldar RSR   Tue Nov 08 2016, 18:48

@Lord Johan wrote:
Some notes on some controversial things from the video:

- He took Blasters over Heat Lances because of the range, which was important for his plan of alpha striking the enemy, and also because they're better "average" weapons vs different targets (that's my understanding of his use of the word average here)

- He took Sybarites with HWG and Kabalites with Blasters in every squad despite this not being advised by The Dark City, which he is aware of (even specifically said the name and that this is a good forum ), because he felt he needed the anti-tank redundancy, because of how much trouble Dark Eldar have dealing with armor, and considered that to be worth the investment in points

- He does not consider the Archon to be the optimal choice, which would instead be Lhamaean in Venom, and an extra Venom, but felt like he wanted to represent the archon in the game, and was happy to have a more resilient warlord than a Sybarite

This was a major part of our interview with Lawrence on Episode 28 of Splintermind. Lawrence knows his tactics for sure.

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PostSubject: Re: Tabletop Tactics' Lawrence Wins No Retreat III Tournament with Dark Eldar RSR   Wed Nov 09 2016, 10:08

Good to see he didn't take a shadowfield on his archon either.
I always thought it was an expensive trap.
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PostSubject: Re: Tabletop Tactics' Lawrence Wins No Retreat III Tournament with Dark Eldar RSR   Mon Dec 12 2016, 10:53

This was supercool to read.

One thing I didn't understand as a Dark Eldar newbie was how his Reavers were so effective against tanks, could someone explain how he managed to one shot that guy's six IG tanks on turn one?

Apologies just making the transition over from Fantasy!

Is it the cluster caltrops? I thought they were only vs infantry
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PostSubject: Re: Tabletop Tactics' Lawrence Wins No Retreat III Tournament with Dark Eldar RSR   Mon Dec 12 2016, 12:49

@dubh, each squad has 2 blasters (S8 guns with 18" range) and the Cluster Caltrops (usually referred to as "CC").

The CC give you D6 S6 rending attacks at I10 when you charge something.

So his 6 man squads would charge a tank, and get 2D6 S6 CC attacks, then 4 S4 rending attacks (from the reaver vain blades or w/e). These attacks are resolved against the armour facing you (rather than the rear armour when doing regular assault attacks). This is better when facing walkers (Since you dont automatically attack the front face), but worse against regular tanks.
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PostSubject: Re: Tabletop Tactics' Lawrence Wins No Retreat III Tournament with Dark Eldar RSR   Mon Dec 12 2016, 12:56

I think I get you. So he is moving into position, firing blasters, then charging.

Are those CC attacks enough? I mean I guess they are. It doesn't seem on face value that the strength/ap is high enough to cause pens? Or is it dying because he has stripped hull points

(apologies these are v basic questions)
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PostSubject: Re: Tabletop Tactics' Lawrence Wins No Retreat III Tournament with Dark Eldar RSR   Mon Dec 12 2016, 14:03

On a 4 he's glancing av 10, 5 is 11 and 6 is 14 because of rend (I believe) with all those attacks you're bound to glance it down

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PostSubject: Re: Tabletop Tactics' Lawrence Wins No Retreat III Tournament with Dark Eldar RSR   Mon Dec 12 2016, 14:56

And he is always hitting rear armour, correct?

But I remain a bit confused: with two caltrops you get an average of 6 attacks, 4 hits at s6, so you'd expect 2 glances which doesn't seem like enough to guarantee a kill?
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PostSubject: Re: Tabletop Tactics' Lawrence Wins No Retreat III Tournament with Dark Eldar RSR   Mon Dec 12 2016, 15:07

No you hit facing armour.

2 d6 = average 7 hits. you get a 1,2,3,4,5,6 and something else, we'll call it a miss. 4 glances 10, 5 glances 11 or pens 10, and 6 pens unless its a land raider. Plus you get 4 str 4 rending hits. So you run those guys into the side of a vehicle, you are probably going to glance it to death


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PostSubject: Re: Tabletop Tactics' Lawrence Wins No Retreat III Tournament with Dark Eldar RSR   Mon Dec 12 2016, 15:14

Waiiiit a second: do you automatically hit a vehicle? In which case your math makes sense.

If you have to roll to hit you get 2d6 = 7 attacks, only 4 hits, 2 glance.
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