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 Mandrakes shroud with Archon in his venom?

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PostSubject: Mandrakes shroud with Archon in his venom?   Fri Oct 14 2016, 05:36

If I join the mandrakes with the Archon in his venom. Will shrouded affect the venoms jink?
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The Red King
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PostSubject: Re: Mandrakes shroud with Archon in his venom?   Fri Oct 14 2016, 06:22

I feel like there was a specific answer in the negative to this somewhere, but lacking that I would argue for it.

A transport and the transported are considered one unit, that's why you can charge the occupants with the same unit that shot their transport to death.

When one considers further that jink, which specifically states "models with... get a 4+ cover save but must snapfire" somehow confers from the vehicle to its occupants you find yourself with a much more restrictive wording than stealth/shrouded allowing for them to share in each others rules.

However it is also arguable that the jink rule is specific to jinking, but that really isn't the case per the FAQ, it's just, according to GW, a clarification of what they meant all along, since they refuse to admit that they naffed up some of their rules pretty bad when they stopped play testing.
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Count Adhemar
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PostSubject: Re: Mandrakes shroud with Archon in his venom?   Fri Oct 14 2016, 07:12

No, the Shrouded does not confer. The transport and the unit inside are separate units and the special rules for one do not transfer to the other unless specifically stated.

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PostSubject: Re: Mandrakes shroud with Archon in his venom?   Fri Oct 14 2016, 07:22

I was incorrectly attributing my memory of the independent character rules wording to transports.

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PostSubject: Re: Mandrakes shroud with Archon in his venom?   Fri Oct 14 2016, 10:14

Could an independent character benefit from stealth/shrouded body guards? and would this be worth it?

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PostSubject: Re: Mandrakes shroud with Archon in his venom?   Fri Oct 14 2016, 10:25

Absolutely, although due to Mandrakes having Inflitrate they can't deploy with the character unless he also has infiltrate

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PostSubject: Re: Mandrakes shroud with Archon in his venom?   Fri Oct 14 2016, 10:44

Just checked. Infiltrate's first line "Units with at least one model with this special rule are deployed last"

You could send a succubus assassin force in with mandrake guards so she actually gets into combat

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PostSubject: Re: Mandrakes shroud with Archon in his venom?   Fri Oct 14 2016, 11:04

Unfortunately the IC rules prevent that.

Quote :
Independent Characters and Infiltrate
An Independent Character without the Infiltrate special rule cannot join a unit of Infiltrators during deployment.

Nothing to stop the Succubus joining them after deployment but she can't start the game with the unit.

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PostSubject: Re: Mandrakes shroud with Archon in his venom?   Fri Oct 14 2016, 12:31

Special rules of the unit do not affect the transport. So if a Haemi from the Grotesquery joins a squad of Incubi in a Venom, the Venom does not get the Freakish rule.

However, the Raiders from the Grotesquery DO have the rule, but only because they are part of the formation, not that it was "conferred" by the Grots inside.
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PostSubject: Re: Mandrakes shroud with Archon in his venom?   Fri Oct 14 2016, 12:41

@Count Adhemar wrote:
Absolutely, although due to Mandrakes having Inflitrate they can't deploy with the character unless he also has infiltrate

I may be wrong - but I thought GW fixed that in the FAQ by saying that you could choose to not infiltrate and thus attach characters?

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PostSubject: Re: Mandrakes shroud with Archon in his venom?   Fri Oct 14 2016, 15:17

You are correct. Though, are those official yet?

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PostSubject: Re: Mandrakes shroud with Archon in his venom?   Fri Oct 14 2016, 15:27

I have a archon with his decated transport and a succubus. Then join the mandrakes with them does the decated transport not count as the unit?
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PostSubject: Re: Mandrakes shroud with Archon in his venom?   Sat Oct 15 2016, 06:57

No. The dedicated transport is never part of the unit. Its a separate unit that acts independently

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PostSubject: Re: Mandrakes shroud with Archon in his venom?   Sat Oct 15 2016, 14:05

Ok then guess I need to get something different to go in that venom. Thanks every one for clearing that up for me.
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PostSubject: Re: Mandrakes shroud with Archon in his venom?   Sun Oct 16 2016, 22:24

@Massaen wrote:
@Count Adhemar wrote:
Absolutely, although due to Mandrakes having Inflitrate they can't deploy with the character unless he also has infiltrate

I may be wrong - but I thought GW fixed that in the FAQ by saying that you could choose to not infiltrate and thus attach characters?

I looked in the main rulebook FAQ and the only thing I found was an incredibly badly worded question with an answer that didn't actually provide an answer. It was basically "Q. Does Infiltrate work like a or like b? A. No" Can anyone find where they actually fixed it?

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PostSubject: Re: Mandrakes shroud with Archon in his venom?   Mon Oct 17 2016, 04:48

Well roll on Strategic and hope to roll number three and get your Warlord Infiltrate, with a boon of three troops.
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PostSubject: Re: Mandrakes shroud with Archon in his venom?   Mon Oct 17 2016, 04:50

In kinda reworking the list now anyway.
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PostSubject: Re: Mandrakes shroud with Archon in his venom?   Tue Oct 18 2016, 21:49

@Count Adhemar wrote:
@Massaen wrote:
@Count Adhemar wrote:
Absolutely, although due to Mandrakes having Inflitrate they can't deploy with the character unless he also has infiltrate

I may be wrong - but I thought GW fixed that in the FAQ by saying that you could choose to not infiltrate and thus attach characters?

I looked in the main rulebook FAQ and the only thing I found was an incredibly badly worded question with an answer that didn't actually provide an answer. It was basically "Q. Does Infiltrate work like a or like b? A. No" Can anyone find where they actually fixed it?

Sadly the answer is no you can't do it

https://www.facebook.com/1575682476085719/photos/a.1576243776029589.1073741828.1575682476085719/1610526945934605/?type=3&theater

INDEPENDENT CHARACTERS
Q: Infiltrate rules state that an Independent Character without Infiltrate cannot join a squad of Infiltrators. Does this mean a squad that is actively Infiltrating or just any unit that has the Infiltrate rule? This matters for things like Outflank (granted freely by the Infiltrate rule) and Infiltrate units that have Deep Strike.
A: An Independent Character without the Infiltrate special rule cannot join a unit of Infiltrators during deployment, whether they are Infiltrating, Deep Striking, Outflanking or deploying normally. They are free to join units as they wish after deployment.

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