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Rhivan
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PostSubject: Dark Eldar vs Grey Knights1500   Mon Sep 12 2016, 03:32

Hey guys so this weekend I'm going to be going against a friend who plays Grey Knights 1500 point game, now this game we're just gonna keep shooting each other till the other concedes or the others army is gone. No objectives or kill points. I'm scared xD

So this is the list I have come up with, I have 50 points to play around with leftover as well.

EDIT: I could run the Purge Corterie and make sure my Blasterborn are the Kabalites in question that way I can have several Blasters with preferred enemy, then I could just run another Reaver squad in place of a cloud dancer (But then I lose 3 Dark Lances)

Points 1457 currently

Dark Eldar Real Space Raiders Detachment

HQ
x1 Archon @160
Animus Vitae
Venom x2 Splinter Cannons
Blaster

Elite
Blasterborn in a Venom (5 Trueborn 4 Blasters Venom 2 splinter cannons) @224

Troops
x10 Kabalite Warriors with 1 Splinter Cannons, Nightshield and Splinterrack @188
x5 Kabalite Warriors in Venom with extra Splinter Cannon @105

Fast Attack
Raider Dis Cannon @55
Razorwing Jetfighter - Nightshield, Splintercannon @155
Venom with 2 Splinter Cannons @65

Heavy Support
Ravager 3 dis cannons nightshield @ 125

Corsair Allies
HQ
Corsair Prince -Collector of Ancient Treasures - Helm of Spite, Corsair Jetpacks @130

Troops
Corsair Cloud Dancer Band - 3 Dark lances and the Felarch's is mastercrafted @140

Reaver Band - Jetpacks, Felarch, Mastercrafted Blaster, x2 Shurikan Catipults, Blaster @110

My overall strat is to pump him full of poison and weaker shots first then pummel him with my AP2 shots. What do you guys think I should do differently? I've used pretty much all the models I can. I can fit in 1 extra raider or 15 Wyches (I know never use Wyches) but besides those models I'm using everything.


Last edited by Rhivan on Tue Sep 13 2016, 20:21; edited 1 time in total
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PostSubject: Re: Dark Eldar vs Grey Knights1500   Tue Sep 13 2016, 03:46

Any idea what he likes to run? If he is running lots of Dredknights, you may want more poisen.

Also, can you take dual SC on the regular warriors?
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PostSubject: Re: Dark Eldar vs Grey Knights1500   Tue Sep 13 2016, 04:42

Well this is the first time I've ever gone against him and sense I was on vacation I don't know the specifics (sadly) but what I do know is that he's running 1 Dreadknight, at least 1 chaplain, Some Psyfleman. I believe he has some terminators but I don't know what else besides that. Sorry for not being extremely helpful but that's all I know.

You can take a single Splinter Cannon for every 10 warriors, so I'm putting that in my raider with my splinter racks to twin link it.
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PostSubject: Re: Dark Eldar vs Grey Knights1500   Tue Sep 13 2016, 05:38

This is fortuitous since I've be playing a 1k point game against a friend of mine's GK army this Friday, so I was working on a list for GKs last night.

I wouldn't play a 1500 point game if it takes everything you have.  Insist on 1000 points so you can use the right models rather than being forced to use all the ones you have available.  Otherwise, your tactics will be dictated by the models you have rather than by what you want to do, and that's not a fun place to be.  You also want as much cover on the board as possible; more cover leads to more complexity and more opportunity for tactics which makes the game more fun.

You can't have 2 splinter cannons in a warrior squad unless they're upgraded to Trueborn or are 20 models strong.

I wouldn't expect the GKs to stay back and shoot.  All his nifty shooty and psyker stuff is 24" range or less, so if he doesn't advance you'll pick him apart with the superior range on dissies and splinter cannons.  He has to close, and he'll assault if possible since he's wasting points on GKs if he doesn't.  We really don't have anything that can compare to GKs in melee, so your focus should be on shooting and mobility.

With that in mind, I don't think the splinter racks are worth it.  Passengers can only fire snap shots if you move more more than 6".  I would drop the warriors off in cover ASAP, and then cruise vehicles around aggressively flanking and shooting from behind cover.  If you're lucky, the aggressive movement will grab the opponent's attention and they'll focus fire on the vehicles with good cover saves rather than the warriors with poor ones.  That also lets you get the most out of the splinter cannon, which is only worth it if you aren't moving.

If you do the math, you'll find that a single dissie is just as good as two splinter cannons against GK troops and Dreadknights, and 50% better against terminators.  If you can, use Raiders with dissies and night shields instead of Venoms.  Not only is the dissie more effective, but you get an extra hull point and you should always be in cover so the night shield is usually more useful than the flickerfield.

The best case scenario is that he spreads his army out.  If he overextends his units, you can use our superior mobility to concentrate fire and mow down one or two units, and then be out of LOS of the rest of his army so he can't shoot back the following turn.


Here is what I'll be trying:
CAD 999 points
Haemi w webway portal, crucible of malediction, splinter pistol, scissorhand
7 warriors, sybarite to eat a challenge, 1 blaster, WWPs in with Haemi
5 warriors, 1 blaster, Raider with dissie & Night Shield
5 warriors, 1 blaster, Raider with dissie & Night Shield
4 Scourges, 1 Solarite (Warlord), 4 blasters
3 Ravagers with dissies and Night Shields

I'm expecting him to field two Dreadknights and he tends to go termie heavy, so I wanted as much AP2 as possible to deal with that.

I think the Haemi is a better choice than an Archon against GKs because of the crucible, and if your opponent is a friend he should let you use the Archon model for one.  My plan is to use the WWP to drop him and the warrior unit into cover, fire the crucible, and try to finish off the nearest unit with the blaster and splinter fire.  I'm hoping the crucible pisses him off enough to throw him off his game and cause him to throw everything he has into taking out the Haemi.  That will hopefully buy me another round picking away at him with the rest of my army and to get my flankers in place.  If I get lucky with rolls the Haemi might even cut down a few GKs before the inevitable massacre.

I don't know much about Corsairs, so I can't comment on how to use them effectively, but I suspect it's the same idea.  Divide and apply excessive firepower to exposed units.

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PostSubject: Re: Dark Eldar vs Grey Knights1500   Tue Sep 13 2016, 20:20

So with you guys mentioning the 2 splinter cannons in the warrior squad was a type it was a single cannon (I'm new to posting lists on the dark city). I'm forced to go 1500 because that's the current standard in my groups meta, I just turned down the gaming going to 1850.

As for some of his units I've learned from a friend that he has this
Terminator units with psycannons and ML3 Librarians on various trees, Purifiers in a Rhino, Dreadknight, Vindicare, and more terminators. All but rhino, dk and Vindicare deep striking turn 1 with his detachment

If I hurry I may be able to assemble some Kabalite warriors and (maybe) another raider b4 this friday but I doubt it.

EDIT: And I just learned he bought a second Dreadknight Sad
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PostSubject: Re: Dark Eldar vs Grey Knights1500   Tue Sep 13 2016, 21:37

I forgot to mention that flamers and similar template weapons are bad news for us. They ignore cover, and they also hit passengers in open topped vehicles. Avoid them, and try to position so you kill them first.

Note that is template weapons, not blast weapons. I've had people claim that blasts use a template so they also hit passengers, but that's incorrect as the book calls them blast markers rather than blast templates.

That's another reason to disembark early, or maybe even foot slog warriors right into cover. GK tend to DS a lot, and a raider with passengers is a juicy taget for a unit with a flamer or template psyker power.

Oh, I posted about Gate of Infinity in the rules section. That's worth looking at as a lot of people cheat with GK by using locator beacons and the like to not scatter when GoIing. The core rules FAQ explicitly says that arriving by deep strike and using the rules for deep strike are not the same thing, so that doesn't work. They always scatter when GoIing, making it riskier and stopping them from getting perfect template placement every time.

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PostSubject: Re: Dark Eldar vs Grey Knights1500   Thu Sep 15 2016, 19:01

Care to share what you will be bringing to the 1500 pt game? I am curios what you have to work with. As others have said, MSU is the way to go, with a bunch of raiders using their dissies to kill stuff.

Not sure what you can do about his "shunting" (cant recall the actual name, but that was what they called it in the batrep i watched) around. Maybe attempt some null deployment?
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PostSubject: Re: Dark Eldar vs Grey Knights1500   Thu Sep 15 2016, 19:49

@fisheyes wrote:
Not sure what you can do about his "shunting" (cant recall the actual name, but that was what they called it in the batrep i watched) around. Maybe attempt some null deployment?

That's probably the Gate of Infinity thing I mentioned above.  Hold them accountable and make them follow the rules so there are risks every time they do it.

They can also do something similar with levitate, which is limited in range but much safer.


If I was doing a 1500 PT army against GK, I'd follow the same path my 1k list; focus on mobility with Raiders/Ravagers/Venoms.  Don't let them get into melee, and you seriously hinder their effectiveness.  Any Eldar jetbikes that aren't DE should be amazing against GK.  Flank like crazy and try to get them to divide their forces.

After some thought, I think the Haemi is much better used as a sniper with a hexrifle, crucible, and helm of spite.  The HoS doesn't have to be in the middle of everything to disrupt a GK's game plan; hide him behind a wall and he still messes up psyckers and protects allies within a foot of him.  The problem is that the HoS only works when he's on foot.

I just noticed the Corsair has HoS. That should pay off in spades even of you only use them to charge around keeping GKs in the bubble.

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PostSubject: Re: Dark Eldar vs Grey Knights1500   Thu Sep 15 2016, 20:48

So my new list is this

HQ

Archon with a Blaster @ 140 points
-Venom (Double Splinter Cannons)

Elites
Blasterborn @224

Troops
Kabalite Warriors x10 +1 Splinter cannon @173
-Raider with Nightshield

Kabalite Warriors x5 @105
-Venom (Double Splinter cannon

Fast Attack
Raider @55
Razorwing Jetfighter @155
-Nigthshield, 2 Dis cannons, Splinter Cannon
Venom (Double Splinter Cannon) @65

Heavy Support
Ravager 3 Dis cannons and a Nightshield @125

Corsair Allies

Corsair Prince @190
Collector of Ancient Secrets, Helm of Spite
Shadowfield, Jetpacks, Wild Psyker, Void Saber, Dissonance Pistol

Troops
x3 Cloud Dancers @150
x3 Darklances, Felarch (2 dissonance pistols ones mastercrafted)

x6 Reaver Bands CCW and 2 blasters (Prince will roll with these guys)
Felarch (1 dissonance pistol)

I don't know whether I'm going to deepstrike or not, What I think I'm going to focus on his more killable threats and once those are dealt with I'll focus on the Dreadknights.
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PostSubject: Re: Dark Eldar vs Grey Knights1500   Fri Sep 16 2016, 07:24

I took a close look at Corsairs and... yeah.  Using those.

My new list, 1000 points

Combined Arms Detachment (DE)
Haemi, hexrifle, crucible of malediction

7 warriors, blaster
raider, dissie, night shield, chain snares, Haemi goes here

6 warriors, blaster
raider, dissie, night shield

ravager, dissies, night shield

ravager, dissies, night shield

Allied Detachment (Corsiars)
Prince, Collector, Helm of Spite, Shadowfield, MC Void Saber
Cloud Dancer, TL shuriken catapult

2 Cloud Dancers, Shuriken Cannons
Felarch, Shuriken Cannon

2 Cloud Dancers, Shuriken Cannons
Felarch, Shuriken Cannon


I haven't had much luck with deep strike, my luck always makes me scatter in just the wrong direction and mishap.  I've had much better luck putting units into regular reserve; with our speed and range, I can almost always bring them to bear the turn they come in.  Keep in mind that our skimmers can move three feet a turn, and our jet bikes can do four.

GKs units are almost all psykers, so they get a ton of warp charges. They'll deny any psyker power you try to manifest, particularly if it's a witchfire or malediction power.  The wild psyker upgrade won't do you any good.

In general, you're better off with more bodies than more upgrades.  Upgrades tend to add very little value in comparison to another warm body, especially when dealing with short ranged pistols.

I put the MC void saber on the prince as a backup if I get forced into combat.  That's not where I want him to be, his job is to use Helm of Spite; one bad perils roll could derail the GK player's entire game plan.  He'll be in with one of the other Cloud Dancer groups doing the shoot and run routine.  I wanted the Cloud Dancer over the jet pack for the ability to jink and the 3+ armour save if my shadowfield goes down.  The longer the HoS stays on the board, the more it disrupts the psychic shenanigans that GKs thrive on.

Your opponent will want his GKs in combat, so adding a melee unit is really playing to his strengths.  You're much better off making the reavers shooty and mobile, and picking away at him at range before dancing off before he can close in.  I would swap them to shuriken catapults.  I wouldn't upgrade the Felarch at all; he's there in case you do get into combat; he can accept a challenge and die in a blaze of glory so the prince gets a round of hacking away before being put at risk.  I'd spend the points on more reavers and more shuriken catapults.  The prince can fire his two shuriken pistols, and dropping the dissonance pistol gets you another reaver.

So if I was doing your list, I'd do this:

HQ
Haemi with a hexrifle, crucible of malediction @ 100

Elites
5 Blasterborn @180
-Venom (Double Splinter Cannons)

Troops
Kabalite Warriors x10 +1 blaster @170
-Raider with Nightshield, DL
Kabalite Warriors x10 +1 blaster  @170
-Raider with Nightshield, DL

Fast Attack
Razorwing Jetfighter @155
-Nightshield, 2 Dis cannons, Splinter Cannon
Venom (Double Splinter Cannon) @65
Venom (Double Splinter Cannon) @65

Heavy Support
Ravager 3 Dis cannons and a Nightshield @125

Corsair Allies

Corsair Prince @160
Collector of Ancient Secrets, Helm of Spite
Shadowfield, Jetpacks, MC Void Saber
Attached to one of the Cloud Dancer squads

Troops
x3 Cloud Dancers @110
x3 Shuriken Cannons, Felarch with mastercrafted cannon

x5 Reavers with Shuriken Catapult, jet packs (Prince will roll with these guys) @ 195
x4 Reavers with blasters, jet packs
Felarch, Shuriken Catapult, jet pack


All depending on what you have for models, of course.  If you can't do the extra reavers, you could add another Cloud Dancer or two.


EDIT: There is one thing the Wild Psyker upgrade does help you with. It gives you an extra warp charge and another +1 to your Deny the Witch Rolls when the Prince is being hit with a malediction or witchfire power.

I don't think that's worth the points, though. Once they find out he has Adamantium Will, they'll focus more on blessings than anything else.

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PostSubject: Re: Dark Eldar vs Grey Knights1500   Fri Sep 16 2016, 20:14

I have more Reaver models then Cloud Dancers. (I only have 3 jetbikes and my Prince isn't on 1 of them hence him having a jetpack)

The reason I gave them CCW is because they already have the brace of pistols which is either a Shurikan Pistol or Splinter Pistol and they have the rule gunslinger which allows you to shoot both of them so the Brace's will be able to shoot 2 shots at 12 inches just like the Shurikan Catapult can.

And sadly I only have 20 Kabalite warriors assembled and your list requires 25 I know it's nitpicky but I'm unable to assemble them now. I also don't have an Haemonculus although I could always proxy my Archon as one.

The reason I have a Felarch with a Disonance pistol is if I roll a 6 on to hit with that thing then it ups the str by 1 and -1 ap for all shots against the target. In hindsight I'm probably going to need a bit more then 2 to make a difference with GKs

Another thing the Cloud Dancers can take Dark Lances, why shouldn't I take that? A mastercrafted Dark lance is awesome!
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PostSubject: Re: Dark Eldar vs Grey Knights1500   Fri Sep 16 2016, 20:44

I would put dissonance cannons on the Dancers if that's what you're after.  I do like MCing the felarch's Dancer's weapon if you have the points.  I thought I was better off with three shuriken shots per instead of 1 dissonance shot.  Maybe with a single unit of six, the dissonance cannon would work better.

Reavers don't get Brace of pistols.  The more expensive variation of them does, but I don't think that's worth the extra points.

The reason I didn't put DLs on the Dancers is that they cost 4 times as much as putting them on Raiders or Ravagers.  Part of it is that I'm not uses to having shuriken weapons so I'm putting them in whereever I can to see how they perform.

Edit: That said, upgrading the Dancers to DLs is a good use of 60 points if you don't have the extra models. MCing the Felarch's seems like a good investment, it's basically another half DL for 10 pts.

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PostSubject: Re: Dark Eldar vs Grey Knights1500   Sat Sep 17 2016, 05:40

My game today was... interesting. I'll post about it in the correct section.

Good luck on your game this weekend! Let us know how it went!

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