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The goat
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PostSubject: Shredder   Sat Aug 27 2016, 13:27

What do you think about it? In a casual game I might run a few warrior squads in venoms one with a shredder. Your thoughts?
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Massaen
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PostSubject: Re: Shredder   Sat Aug 27 2016, 13:39

That the points are almost 99.9% of the time better spent elsewhere.

12" range, small blast, no ap or special rules (where is monofilament or even just shred?!?) is most of the time worse than the splinter rifle that's stock.

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Kantalla
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PostSubject: Re: Shredder   Sat Aug 27 2016, 14:16

Massaen wrote:
(where is monofilament or even just shred?!?)
They do have Shred! Shocked

... but still are sub-par and points better spent on other choices

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The goat
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PostSubject: Re: Shredder   Sat Aug 27 2016, 14:17

Are they worth on non competitive games? Against bad save armies that are T3 or 4 if could work out?
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Jimsolo
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PostSubject: Re: Shredder   Sat Aug 27 2016, 17:06

I saw someone run them at the ITC event at Gen Con. He took third, I think. They did pretty well for him.
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Count Adhemar
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PostSubject: Re: Shredder   Sat Aug 27 2016, 17:28

I would imagine he did well in spite of the Shredders rather than because of them Very Happy

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Jimsolo
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PostSubject: Re: Shredder   Sat Aug 27 2016, 17:53

They sure did a number on me.
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CptMetal
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PostSubject: Re: Shredder   Sat Aug 27 2016, 20:02

What do you mean Jim? He used them against you with good effect?

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Jimsolo
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PostSubject: Re: Shredder   Sat Aug 27 2016, 22:45

Yep. Did good against my jetbikes.
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The goat
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PostSubject: Re: Shredder   Sun Aug 28 2016, 09:13

"Yep. Did good against my jetbikes."

Yay! As blasters are one shot I think I am going to put a shredder in a venom. Since me and my Dad play 600pts.
I am hoping to force a large amount of saves.
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CptMetal
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PostSubject: Re: Shredder   Sun Aug 28 2016, 09:23

Well.. They do fit with the damage output of standard Kabalite Warriors. The shredder and the Splinter Rifle have a more similar target than the Blaster and the Splinter Rifle.

I think I'd use it more if the range would be a bit longer...

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Imateria
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PostSubject: Re: Shredder   Sun Aug 28 2016, 17:04

Jimsolo wrote:
Yep.  Did good against my jetbikes.

Kind of makes sense, where jet bike squads have a larger foot print so it's easier to score hits.
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Massaen
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PostSubject: Re: Shredder   Mon Aug 29 2016, 15:36

Kantalla wrote:
Massaen wrote:
(where is monofilament or even just shred?!?)
They do have Shred! Shocked

... but still are sub-par and points better spent on other choices

Shows how close I looked at them when the 7th ed book dropped...

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Kantalla
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PostSubject: Re: Shredder   Tue Aug 30 2016, 11:09

With a name like Shredder, they really do need to have Shred.

I'm pretty sure Shredder's Kabal would all have that special rule for the same reason. Wink

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Count Adhemar
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PostSubject: Re: Shredder   Tue Aug 30 2016, 11:11

Kantalla wrote:
With a name like Shredder, they really do need to have Shred.

They do have Shred! They're still awful, overpriced garbage but they do have Shred.

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The goat
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PostSubject: Re: Shredder   Tue Aug 30 2016, 20:56

"They do have Shred! They're still awful, overpriced garbage but they do have Shred."

Why are they so bad, being only 5 points?
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Count Adhemar
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PostSubject: Re: Shredder   Tue Aug 30 2016, 21:49

Crap range, small blast, no AP.

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Ynneadwraith
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PostSubject: Re: Shredder   Mon Sep 26 2016, 12:10

Is it me or should Shredders really be flamer templates with the Monofilament rule? Adjust the points cost accordingly.

Would make them a lot more of an alternative to Blasters.

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PostSubject: Re: Shredder   Mon Sep 26 2016, 12:14

Ynneadwraith wrote:
Is it me or should Shredders really be flamer templates with the Monofilament rule?

My thoughts exactly

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Ynneadwraith
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PostSubject: Re: Shredder   Mon Sep 26 2016, 14:51

Great minds think alike Smile

I love a lot of the ideas from your fandex, especially the Archon's re-rolling of initiative, night fighting and reserves rolls, plus the options for Scourge wings and a jetbike.

The Succubus and Wyches having the bonus attacks for excess initiative like SS exarchs is perfect too, as well as run and assault for them.

S4 Wracks and relentless Scourges just makes sense.

I also really like the staggered benefits for Night Fields, although personally I'd make it similar to Veil of Tears where over 36" they need to roll to see if it's targeted.

Personally I'd leave it at that (I think that for a homebrew codex to be accepted you'd have to keep it slightly sub-par). However, in the veing of Eldar Battle Focus and Corsair Reckless Abandon I'd like to give Dark Eldar a similar movement trait given that they're supposed to be lightning-fast raiders.

Maybe something like 'Lust for Slaughter': Dark Eldar units with this rule may make a run move before or after shooting, but may only move closer to an enemy unit, although it needn't be the unit they targeted for shooting.

Apologies for the thread-drift...
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Count Adhemar
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PostSubject: Re: Shredder   Mon Sep 26 2016, 15:17

Thank you for the kind words. Apologies for taking thread off track. If you fancy discussing it, there's a whole thread here.

Back on topic, a template weapon is something that we sorely lack in our army, with only the Medusae's Eyeburst being worth taking, and that's a fairly expensive option. A Monofilament Template meshes nicely with the firepower of Kabalite Warriors, adds a slight defensive boost and can even damage vehicles at a pinch. The current version does 2 of the above but not as well.

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amorrowlyday
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PostSubject: Re: Shredder   Mon Sep 26 2016, 18:14

I'mma Take this the other way.

Shredders have 3 major flaws:

No AP.

12 inch Range.

Limited utility in OBSEC Squads.



If we don't care about the obsec bit and can eat the first 2 flaws then Trueborn and Scourges can shine by taking 4 of them. 20pts for 4 str6 muffin tins is nothing to shake a stick at. Lack of AP isn't even really relevant with the fact that basically any weapon in ANY eldar faction might as not have an AP against +3 armour.

You'd definitely have to charge the squad you shot or the squad would probably get wiped tho.

Or

OOOOOORRRRR

We ignore ALL the flaws by taking them in Corsair Reaver Squads.

No AP. Who cares I have 3 buddies with gunslinger Shuriken pistols?

12 inch Range. Who Cares My buddies all need to be within 12" anyway... AND RECKLESS ABANDON.

Limited Utility in OBSEC Squads. I can take 2 per squad and if I really want more I can take additional squads.
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Ynneadwraith
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PostSubject: Re: Shredder   Tue Sep 27 2016, 11:48

Good point about the AP, and Trueborn with 4 was what I was thinking about when I was looking at them.

Looking at it it seems to have a bit of utility for everything. It can insta-gib T3 multi-wound units, wound higher toughness things with S6 as well as threaten lighter armoured transports for not a great deal of points investment.

So, would it find more utility in a low-points game where it would increase what you can threaten but allow you to field more bodies? Say 500pts?

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The Strange Dark One
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PostSubject: Re: Shredder   Tue Sep 27 2016, 12:26

But why bother with a "diet Blaster"?

Now, I get the appeal of insta-gibbing T3 units but if I really want a high-damage weapon on a single target I'd simply get a true Blaster and get AP2 on top of it. Now, we all know they are overcosted but if we already talking about revamping the weapons department, it is only fair to assume that Blasters also get the Corsair treatment (making them 10pts/piece).

Personally, instead of a weapon that is "kinda different" to a Blaster, I'd want something that fills an entirely different role and I think making it a template weapon would be the way to go.

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CptMetal
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PostSubject: Re: Shredder   Tue Sep 27 2016, 16:06

If I wanted to specialize my Warrior squads, I would use a shredder because that why my Splinter Rifles aren't wasted but I prefer to make them able to hurt everything so I take a Blaster.

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