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 WIshlisting: What would you like to see changed in your codex (Reddit post)

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RoadRageRob666
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PostSubject: WIshlisting: What would you like to see changed in your codex (Reddit post)   Thu Aug 18 2016, 07:32

Hey everyone, so I made a Reddit post on /warhammer and/warhammer40k asking people what they would like to see changed in their codex. This isnt specifically related to DE, but here is what I came up with (links to pages at the bottom).

Here she is:

Hey everyone!
So I am a newer DE player (~a year) and while I have been greatly enjoying all aspects of 40k (from modelling to actually gaming), there are obviously some huge internal and external balancing issues. So as opposed to simply throwing out comments like "why does GW hate (insert faction here) so much", Ive been thinking about how you could "fix" some of the under-powered factions, such as my beloved DE.

The rational behind my changes to DE is that the DE are supposed to be an extremely fast, hard hitting, fragile army that spontaneously appears out of the webway, frak crap up, and disappears as fast as they came.

So, here are some ideas that I've come up with:

General Changes

Kabals: Archon, Kabalites, Trueborn, Incubi:

1.All embarked Kabal units can fire at full BS while transports move at cruising speed.
2.Embarked units can fire at full BS even after a transport jinks
3.Embarked units have the relentless special rule

All of these changes make Kabalites/Trueborn do what they are supposed to: zip around the battle field while laying down some pain.

Cults: Succubus Wyches, Bloodbrides, Hellions, Reavers

1.Move through Cover
2.Hit & Run
3.Change Combat Drugs: make it so that they are all useful, +1 Initiative doesnt do much for I6 troops... Maybe: +1 S, +1A, +1T, +1WS, Precision Strike, or Preferred Enemy
4.Cult disembark (possibly): If a transport contains all wyches, bloodbrides, and/or succubus, if (when) it explodes, all models have gain a 4+ invuln save for any hits caused by the explosion.

Cults represent extremely acrobatic gladiators who have been competing in the arena for centuries to millennia, so they should be fast, deadly, not hindered by a couple of trees, and able to pick and choose their battles.

Venoms/Raiders/Ravagers

1.DS scatter is only 1D6
2.Outflank
3.Can fire all Weapons, at full BS, at cruising speed
4.up to 1/2 of all DSing or Outflanking Venoms/Raiders/Ravagers can arrive on turn 1 (same as drop pods).

Essentially, this would make all vehicles mobile, and support the whole "spontaneously popping out of the webway" playstyle of the DE. Concerning the full BS at cruising speed, this is what DE train for, high speed fast attacks.

Specifics

Wyches:

1.all wyches have built in psuedo-rending: all To Wound rolls of 6 automatically hit at AP2, no effect against vehicles.
2.Dodge changed to: 4++ in CC, and 5++ outside of CC
3.changes to wyche weapons
4.+1 WS for bloodbrides
5. bloodbrides can all take wych weapons

Kabalites:

1.+1 BS for Trueborn

Wracks:

1. 2 wounds
2. All wracks have access to Liquifier Guns and/or Ossefactors
         a. Liquifier guns get +1 St, so S4, AP D6, and at 7 points

Hellions:

1. Archite Glaives = st+1, AP3

Beastpacks:

1. All beasts/Beastmasters have Scout
2. Beastmasters have move through cover
3. Beastmasters confer stealth (MAYBE shrouded......maybe)

Ill cap it off there, but I think through these changes, DE would play more how they are "supposed to" without making DE overpowered.

What do you guys think about these changes?

More importantly what would YOU change about your codex in attempt to balance the game abit?
If there is enough feedback, I may submit the comments to the GW facebook (they seem like they sorta, kinda, somewhat, might care :p)!

Thanks guys!



So what do you guys think of these changes? I kinda cut myself off from going crazy because I made this list for a general audience, not a DE specific one.

If your interested in other peoples comments on their factions, here are the Links:

https://www.reddit.com/r/Warhammer/comments/4y7oj9/wishlisting_what_changes_would_you_like_to_make/


https://www.reddit.com/r/Warhammer40k/comments/4y7qkt/wishlisting_what_changes_would_you_like_to_make/

EDIT: obviously we are in serious need of some formations, even just making some of the apoc ones available would be great, but I didnt bother going into that much detail
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RoadRageRob666
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PostSubject: Re: WIshlisting: What would you like to see changed in your codex (Reddit post)   Fri Aug 19 2016, 18:49

Lol Wow, 110 comments on Reddit, and Zero comments here?

That`s kind of disappointing.
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CurstAlchemist
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PostSubject: Re: WIshlisting: What would you like to see changed in your codex (Reddit post)   Fri Aug 19 2016, 19:43

We have done tons of threads on wishlisting on this site and many of us have our own fandex that incorporate our ideas. For me, I'm just being to lazy and not wanting to copy and paste all the notes I have on my fandex changes as I'm still compiling it into codex like format.

But I'll make a basic list of some of my changes/wishlisting:
Jink doesn't effect passengers.
Return of Aerial Assault with a twist.
Vehicles have more equipment options
All vehicles can purchase flicker fields
Reverted back to old night shields
Vehicle upgrade that has embarked units ignore moving penalties
5th Edition Bladevanes and dragchains
Reworked drugs.
Reworked several weapons profiles
Benefits for having different HQs being your warlord
More equipment/customization options for your HQs to take
Different Warlord Traits depending on who your HQ is.
Reworked dodge and renamed.

I went with HQ type as warlords (and in some cases, HQ with equipment + warlord) giving you perks over designing different formations with their perks. But then again I was designing mine to play in 30k more than compete with Codex Eldar: Craftworld or Codex Adeptus Astartes: Space Marines.
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Squidmaster
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PostSubject: Re: WIshlisting: What would you like to see changed in your codex (Reddit post)   Fri Aug 19 2016, 21:12

To be honest, I don't think most of the reddit wishlisting is realistic. It seems more "bearding" than "balancing".
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RoadRageRob666
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PostSubject: Re: WIshlisting: What would you like to see changed in your codex (Reddit post)   Fri Aug 19 2016, 22:00

@CurstAlchemist Hey, yea Ive browsed alot of them, and there are some great ideas to be found in them. Ive included a couple of them in my wishlisting.

I cant really comment on any of your changes, because you only listed general, not specific lol

@Squidmaster  Is it really anymore unrealistic than what goes on here? Ive read all the reddit comments and some of the detailed replies (specifically on Tyranids, Orks, CSM, Sisters, and to a lesser extent, Guard) raise some good points and "fixes". Also, common complaints about specific factions would indicate the underlying problem within the faction (e.x., synapse and movement/speed issues for Tyranids).

Again, the end result of all of this is to compile a list of things that need to be changed with the underpowered codices, suggest plausible "fixes", and submit it to GW.

Will this amount to anything? Who knows, but atleast its a progressive step forward haha
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CurstAlchemist
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PostSubject: Re: WIshlisting: What would you like to see changed in your codex (Reddit post)   Fri Aug 19 2016, 22:42

Very well I'll put down some more specific things from the top of my head (I have about 4 pages of notes, this is only a small sample of what I'm doing in my Fandex):

Archons and Succubi can take Skyboards and Reaver Jetbikes. If an HQ with a Skyboard is your Warlord Hellions become troops.

Having a Haemonculus as your Warlord makes Wracks troop choices.

Trueborn can be upgraded to have Ghost Armor, and are equipped with splinter carbines.

Scourges can purchase an upgrade to become relentless.

1 in 3 Reaver Jetbikes can take a disintegrator cannons or splinter cannons as well as the normal options found in our codex.

Ravagers have what was Aerial Assault with skyfire added to it.

Void mines are S D

Dark Light Weapons cause blinding.

Dodge, well my renamed Dodge, has 4++ verses overwatch (unless it is wall of death), and close combat. Wyches charging through difficult terrain fight at full initiative.

Note: There are more benefits to having the different HQ's being your warlord not just moving particular units to troop slots. One day, when I finish making it resemble a codex I'll post it.
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CptMetal
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PostSubject: Re: WIshlisting: What would you like to see changed in your codex (Reddit post)   Fri Aug 19 2016, 23:55

Sorry, but not again. We talked so much about that already...

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amorrowlyday
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PostSubject: Re: WIshlisting: What would you like to see changed in your codex (Reddit post)   Sat Aug 20 2016, 00:14

WE've literally done this 30-40 times in the last year alone. Mayhaps use our search function.
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RoadRageRob666
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PostSubject: Re: WIshlisting: What would you like to see changed in your codex (Reddit post)   Sat Aug 20 2016, 02:33

@CurstAlchemist I actually like alot of those changes, maybe with the exception of the reavers one for the sole reason that I dont think that heavy weapons should be on jetbikes.

Out of curiosity, did your trueborn get a points increase for the carbines, or is that absorbed because right now the only benefit to trueborn is +1 leadership, and access to more weapons?  



Quote :
Mayhaps use our search function.

As I mentioned before, I already have browsed them, and adopted a few of the ideas.

So if this is a closed book conversation, I`ve got 2 questions:

1. Have you guys had any success implementing the changes to the dex that youve made/using your homebrew dex in your local meta?

2. Have you tried to get into contact with GW about plausible dex changes?
    - this was very much the point of this thread and the reddit ones: Im going to catalog some of the feedback and send it to the facebook page. They obviously know that there are underpowered codices, but maybe they need some help with figuring out where they went wrong (I dont have alot of faith in GW for anything but SM and variants lol).¨

Regardless, thanks for the input, guys!
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CurstAlchemist
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PostSubject: Re: WIshlisting: What would you like to see changed in your codex (Reddit post)   Sat Aug 20 2016, 02:44

I left the Trueborn at their current point cost.
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amorrowlyday
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PostSubject: Re: WIshlisting: What would you like to see changed in your codex (Reddit post)   Sat Aug 20 2016, 02:51

I can't speak to 1 since fandex's aren't my thing. I'd rather push the boundaries of what I can access and use other armies rules and restrictions as allies and supplements rather than spinning whole new cloth.

As for 2. Several people have done that... and... well... you can see for yourself how successful those attempts were...
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Jimsolo
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PostSubject: Re: WIshlisting: What would you like to see changed in your codex (Reddit post)   Sat Aug 20 2016, 03:44

Give our special characters back, specifically the Duke.

Let one of our HQs take a bike or a skyboard.

A superheavy or GMC. Anything.

Seriously, that's it.
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PostSubject: Re: WIshlisting: What would you like to see changed in your codex (Reddit post)   Sat Aug 20 2016, 04:53

How about some weapons S and AP that make some sense...

Give the shredder some love, and let the wyches take special weapons... Again
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PostSubject: Re: WIshlisting: What would you like to see changed in your codex (Reddit post)   Sat Aug 20 2016, 12:20

I think our Kabalite Warriors could also use some polishing. When I look at other codices, the troop choices are almost always units that are very flexible, since they can choose from multiple different weapons. Let me make the comparison to the Skitarii's Vanguard:

They have the same profile (but Ini 4) and 4+ armour, 6+ FNP. Their stock weapons are 18" S3 AP5 Assault 3 and every 6 to-wound generates two additional wounds (regardless of toughness value). They can also take Arc Rifles (24" S6 AP5 Assault 1 Haywire) or Plasma Rifles (S7 AP2 Assault 3 Gets Hot). They too cost 9 points per model, with rather expensive (but powerful) special weapons. Vanguards can take up to 3 special weapons.

With this the Vanguard is very flexible in its build, whilst the only viable build for our Kabalite Warriors is pretty much just naked poison spam (with the occasional Splinter Cannon if we pump up the squad to 10 guys).

My proposed changes would be that the Kabalite Warriors should also be able to take 2 special/heavy weapons (3 if the squad is 10 men strong), which would in term also require those weapons to get a face lift.

Make Dark Lances S9 AP2. A Ravager would still deal only 1,3 HP to AV12, so we wouldn't be popping Land Raiders left and right but at least our lances would do some work against the AV they are designed to face.

On another note, the Voide Mine is finally S D. Death From The Skies updated the profiles of every flyer and our antimatter-bomb is finally the reality destroying crystal of doom that it should always should have been.

Other changes:

-Give Incubi and Wyches assault grenades or a special rule so that they can swing at initiative when charging through cover.

-Give Incubi a shooting weapon. They have their helmets that blast the enemy's senses. Either make this an actual weapon (take a LD/Ini/whatever test or suffer a wound/stat malus) or use this to give the Incubi assault grenades. Would be fluffy too. They run into ruins and disorient the enemy with the blast from their helmets which would give them time to strike before those pesky Marines can realise what hit them (literally).

-Give us a S10 weapon.

-Get rid of those S3 flamers. Either make them S4 or rework them entirely.

-Give us a superheavy (I can't really picture a GMC for the Dark Eldar, since I know of no creature from the fluff that would fill this role). Make that superheavy AV12 and not open topped so that it is not just another paper boat but actually something akin to a tank.

-Rework combat drugs. We are already fast enough, we don't need a bonus to Ini etc. This has enormous potential. There could be formations for the Wychcult units that give them a special chart to roll on for their combat drugs etc.

-Either slightly buff the PFP table or make it easier for our whole army to "treat the current turn one higher than it actually is". This could be achieved through formations, special characters, warlord traits, combat drugs(?) and artefacts (read: reliable artefacts. The Animus Vitae is not really something you can bet your money on).

-Either get rid of the whole "Decurion Formation Style" of the codices (which won't happen, since the Deathwatch codex just came out and it too has that style of organisation chart) or give us our own. This would open up the option to implement the aforementioned formations.

-The Archon and the Haemy already have their exklusive list of wargear they can choose from. Give the Succubus her own list. Think Wych weapons on steroids.

-Give each vehicle Flickerfields (either stock or as an option to buy).

-Let us shoot at full BS when jinking. Either as a special rule or as an upgrade our vehicles can buy for their passengers.
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PostSubject: Re: WIshlisting: What would you like to see changed in your codex (Reddit post)   Sat Aug 20 2016, 15:05

I generally prefer not to wishlist Codex changes because they wont make the changes happen, as much as they might be a good idea.

Causalis wrote:
-Give Incubi and Wyches assault grenades
Wyches do have Plasma Grenades! And they are still terrible. You'll need a more exciting advantage for them.

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PostSubject: Re: WIshlisting: What would you like to see changed in your codex (Reddit post)   Sat Aug 20 2016, 18:29

Plenty of fandexes and discussions on here about desired changes. Here's my take on it

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PostSubject: Re: WIshlisting: What would you like to see changed in your codex (Reddit post)   Tue Aug 23 2016, 12:40

@Count Adhemar
Holy cow that codex is good! Or at least better than the current.
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PostSubject: Re: WIshlisting: What would you like to see changed in your codex (Reddit post)   Tue Aug 23 2016, 12:41

The goat wrote:
@Count Adhemar
Holy cow that codex is good! Or at least better than the current.

Thank you kind sir!

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PostSubject: Re: WIshlisting: What would you like to see changed in your codex (Reddit post)   Tue Aug 23 2016, 13:30

I actually like it too. Instant Death on the Disintegrator seems a bit much but it would help dealing with the big monsters. I just briefly skipped over it and I'd hope that games workshop take some hints from that.
Other than that I only got minor things to criticise.

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PostSubject: Re: WIshlisting: What would you like to see changed in your codex (Reddit post)   Tue Aug 23 2016, 13:53

CptMetal wrote:
I actually like it too. Instant Death on the Disintegrator seems a bit much but it would help dealing with the big monsters.

That change was actually rather tongue-in-cheek as it would appear that the Imperial Space Marine rules featured both a 'Disintegration Pistol' and 'Disintegration Gun' with rather familiar statlines. So I figured that the Imperium was just trying to copy our technology and that if their guns were ID then ours bloody well should be too! Very Happy

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PostSubject: Re: WIshlisting: What would you like to see changed in your codex (Reddit post)   Tue Aug 23 2016, 14:59

@Count Adhemar

Yes that makes sense. Ours should as well be a bit higher in Streangth. I'm guessing, however, this is not that case.
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PostSubject: Re: WIshlisting: What would you like to see changed in your codex (Reddit post)   Tue Aug 23 2016, 15:09

The goat wrote:
Yes that makes sense. Ours should as well be a bit higher in Streangth. I'm guessing, however, this is not that case.

I think if I were to also increase the Strength I'd have to change the name of the weapon to "TakeyourscatterlasersandshovethemwheretheIlmaeadon'tshine Cannon".

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PostSubject: Re: WIshlisting: What would you like to see changed in your codex (Reddit post)   Thu Aug 25 2016, 11:50

Not sure how useful this would actually be, but considering our technology is so advanced kabalite armour could maybe gives a 5+ or 6+ invulnerable - at least against non AP 2/1 weapons.
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PostSubject: Re: WIshlisting: What would you like to see changed in your codex (Reddit post)   Thu Aug 25 2016, 17:06

The goat wrote:
Not sure how useful this would actually be, but considering our technology is so advanced kabalite armour could maybe gives a 5+ or 6+ invulnerable - at least against non AP 2/1 weapons.
Thats called Ghostplate Armour.
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PostSubject: Re: WIshlisting: What would you like to see changed in your codex (Reddit post)   Thu Aug 25 2016, 17:34

Yea i think trueborn had the option to get Ghostplate Armour upgrade in 5th.
Or was that only for the Archon?
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