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Causalis
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PostSubject: Re: Hey Guys New to Warhammer 40k   Sat Aug 06 2016, 01:04

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I agree with everything you posted and I do love the detail in all the models I also like the space marines but damn do they have to be blue? lol I think they do that's what is drawing me away from them

The blue marines are the Ultramarines. Space Marines are grouped into different chapters etc. The Space Marines riding the wolfs for example are called "Space Wolves" (10/10 for name-creativity!). You can paint them in any colour you want, but if you want to play Ultrasmurfs/Ultra Marines, you'll have to paint them blue.

For a beginner the Marines would probably be easier to pick up than the Deldar. The Space Marines are GW's spoiled children: Always the first in line to receive the newest toys, whilst other armies remain untouched for literally years. They are also incredibly boring (talking about the general Space Marines, not the named ones like Dark Angels etc that have a hint of personality to them), as they are the Jack-Of-All-Trades/Master-Of-None. They aren't the tankiest (Necrons) or fastest (Eldar/Deldar) or even have the most devastating shooting (Tau/Eldar/Ad Mech) but they have a metric s*it ton of formations and a huge variety of units. Their models are also very easy to paint as a normal Space Marine consists only of a single-colour armour + weapon and hasn't got any itsy bitsy details.

Quote :
I don't think i'll be actually playing games anytime soon and I wont be fielding an army unless its fully painted.

Actually it is not unreasonable to assume that you'll need "only" about two weeks to read the rules and assemble/paint 500 points of minis. An hour every evening would probably get you there (plus some work at the weekend).

Nice pics! Really good basing! But mix your colours with a bit more water. Also nice freehand, but I would probably focus on the basics before going ham on the advanced stuff.
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CurstAlchemist
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PostSubject: Re: Hey Guys New to Warhammer 40k   Sat Aug 06 2016, 01:10

Seeryous wrote:
I agree with everything you posted and I do love the detail in all the models I also like the space marines but damn do they have to be blue?

Like stated you don't have to go with the Ultrasmurfs, there are many chapters out there in many different colors. Actually the Death Masque comes 1/2 space marines, the Death Watch who are dedicated Xenos hunters made up people from all the different chapters (and wear black while members), and 1/2 Harlequins + Eldrad. So maybe the box set wouldn't be a bad purchase if you are interested in both. I'll definitely post a link to it so you can look at the miniatures included and the resale price on the box (keep in mind you might be able to get it less if a non-gw store gives discounts on them).
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PostSubject: Re: Hey Guys New to Warhammer 40k   Sat Aug 06 2016, 01:22

CurstAlchemist wrote:

Side note: the price gave me a heart attack until I realized it was the New Zealand site... I feel for those guys. I'll post a link when the US pre-order is out. Not sure if you are here or not but I'll be able to better gauge prices and if it is still a deal if not splitting the box once I see what we will be paying.

Yeah, it's not a cheap hobby for us in the South Pacific. Aus & Nz have pretty disgusting prices when you buy from GW. Even local stores still have to buy at pretty hefty prices so it's rare that you get a bargain from them.

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Seeryous
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PostSubject: Re: Hey Guys New to Warhammer 40k   Sat Aug 06 2016, 01:40


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Nice pics! Really good basing! But mix your colours with a bit more water. Also nice freehand, but I would probably focus on the basics before going ham on the advanced stuff.


Yeah as i said its only my third one painted so I'm learning a lot :-D

Definately need some more water as the paint goes on smoother and not as thick. Thank you for the freehand complements but I'm not sure what you mean by advanced stuff? I just painted it like I wanted to and didn't look up any strategies or painting styles hehe
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PostSubject: Re: Hey Guys New to Warhammer 40k   Sat Aug 06 2016, 01:43

Also, I read a guide for what army to pick, and it was for the warhammer fantasy version, but I would assume it works for 40k as well.


The guide basically said for a first purchase or first army to pick one of the main armies, since GW has a way of when the next set of rules or codex?? comes out, they sometimes will not include some of the fringe armies in the rules so they are completely unplayable in the new rule set.

I'm really confused with how many different types of space marines there are. Lol it seems like there's 8+ different armies all under one tag.
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PostSubject: Re: Hey Guys New to Warhammer 40k   Sat Aug 06 2016, 01:43

Just would like to add that you guys have been wonderful and super helpful for a completely new player.
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CurstAlchemist
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PostSubject: Re: Hey Guys New to Warhammer 40k   Sat Aug 06 2016, 02:04

Okay, so basically there are several different versions of space marines. Some chapters get independent releases while others are just grouped together into Codex: Space Marine. Codex: Blood Angels, Codex: Space Wolves, and the soon to be released Codex: Death Watch are examples of Space Marines that get their own Codex aka, rule books. Codex: Space Marine has several of the more "generic" chapters and their rules rolled into a single book. So while Ultramarines are one of those and wear blue you could also go with Imperial Fist who are Yellow, or Black Templar who are a Second Founding of the Imperial Fist (they splintered off of them after the Horus Heresy as strict regulations made it so that you can't field the massive legions as a unified body like they did in 30k, though the Space Wolves ignore this rule) who are all in black.

What they were basically saying in the guide was that not every Codex gets equal treatment and depending on which codex army you are running you might go several editions before getting an update. For example Codex: Space Marines will pretty much get an update every edition while Codex: Dark Eldar had a Codex in 3rd (3.5), 5th, and 7th edition. The more popular Codices will also often times get updated miniatures more often as well while some like the poor sisters of battle are still waiting for an update to their sculptures and are still running off the old Metal.
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Seeryous
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PostSubject: Re: Hey Guys New to Warhammer 40k   Sat Aug 06 2016, 03:20

Ahhh so you just use the armies last codex that they came out with for the rules for your army.


So what versions of space marines use the Codex: Space Marine? On the GW website when i look at Adeptus Astartes Space Marines those are all blue >.< lol

Sorry this is kinda hard to understand and the GW website doesn't do a very good job of explaining anything.
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CurstAlchemist
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PostSubject: Re: Hey Guys New to Warhammer 40k   Sat Aug 06 2016, 04:41

Yeah basically you keep using a codex until it is updated for the newest released Rule book, so for instance the Astra Militarum got a codex in 6th edition but has not been updated for 7th, as a result they still use the 6th edition Codex while using the 7th edition base rule book.

With in Codex: Space Marines, of the original Legions that stayed loyal and became the first founding of the Space Marine chapters you can choose to have the chapter rules and colors of are the Ultramarines, White Scars, Imperial Fist, Salamanders, Raven Guard, and Iron Hands. The colors are show in the book itself but if you look online and search for information on them you should be able to see what their paint schemes are as well as the paint schemes of their successor chapters that splintered off. Also it should be noted that Space Marines belonging to a particular chapter will have that chapters tactics (so a successor chapter of the Ultramarines would have the Ultramarine Chapter tactics, the Black Templar are the only exception I know of in the Codex and have their own). So the White Scars do to their preferred way of fighting have rules that are different then a unit that would belong to the Salamanders.

The reason so much of the website is blue is because Ultramarines have a bit of favoritism among the GW staff it seems and gets show cased more often on the website.

Note: Just to be clear while those are the ones within the Codex: Space Marines, Blood Angels, Dark Angels, and Space Wolves are also descended from the original 20 Legions, stayed loyal and are first founding but have their own codices. So why do I say stayed loyal, because Horus lead a revolt and there are many of the legions that joined him and began to worship Chaos such as the Black Legion (formerly known as the Sons of Horus/Lunar Wolves), World Eaters, Word Bearers, ect.
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Seeryous
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PostSubject: Re: Hey Guys New to Warhammer 40k   Sat Aug 06 2016, 05:33

Ahhh ok so I would still use the blue troops but i'd paint them the different colors if i like the salamanders or raven guards colors more.
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CurstAlchemist
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PostSubject: Re: Hey Guys New to Warhammer 40k   Sat Aug 06 2016, 05:35

Correct. But it should also be noted that their heraldry changes as well (and the chapter rules they follow when being played as that chapter change).

Ultramarines:


Imperial fist:


Black Templar:


White Scars:


Salamanders:


Iron Hands:


Raven Guard:
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Seeryous
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PostSubject: Re: Hey Guys New to Warhammer 40k   Sat Aug 06 2016, 06:15

Wow the Imperial Fist color schemes look badass. I really like the yellow. So basically if i went with space marines... since they are considered a newb army since they are very forgiving battle wise if you mess up, and they have a lot of units to choose from. I could paint them all in the Imperial Fist color scheme and it would be an Imperial Fist Space Marine army.

And if i bought the 150$ pack of rules it would show me how to paint each unit in Imperial Fist colors?
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Seeryous
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PostSubject: Re: Hey Guys New to Warhammer 40k   Sat Aug 06 2016, 06:16

Sweet so even though they are different heraldry and colors, they still follow the space marines codex for stats and other things.
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PostSubject: Re: Hey Guys New to Warhammer 40k   Sat Aug 06 2016, 06:16

I'm starting to understand haha! Very Happy
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PostSubject: Re: Hey Guys New to Warhammer 40k   Sat Aug 06 2016, 12:28

Under the Space Marines banner the different Chapters have their own special rules (abilities called Doctrines as well as being bale to take different units or different upgrades for the units). Ultramarines are the baseline version of marines. Imperial Fists specialise in siege warfare and heavy gunline combat, they get rules to make them better at standing and shooting. Salamanders specialise in flame weaponry and having high-tech equipment. Ravenguard specialise in hit-and-run and infiltration warfare. Blood Angels specialise in close combat and have tanks with giant flamers and assault cannons. White Scars specialise in rapid fast warfare with tons of bikes and everything in vehicles. Dark Angels have two specialisations in their Ravenwing (fast combat similar to White Scars) and Deathwing (all Terminators - the very heavy infantry that are tough to kill). Iron Hands focus on armour and stuff that just doesn't die. The Black Templars are an offshoot of Imp Fists who adopted a crusading mentality, focusing on close combat. Space Wolves are a sort of oddity, heavily focused on close combat but they're somewhat versatile too.

Most other Chapters are simply offshoots of the main ones and although they use different colours and heraldry they use the same rules as their parent chapter.

Space Marines are good for beginners because their forgiving of mistakes due to the toughness of their units whilst being quite versatile to boot as most every unit can perform multiple roles in a pinch. They're also highly powered, being GW's flagship army, so they always get the latest updates and best rules, ether before everyone else or at the exclusion of everyone else. You can also play them in very different ways, mechanised works well, drop pod assaulting works well, gunline works well, close combat works well. However you like to play you can specialise the marines and their chapters to that style.

The problem with marines is that their models look cool at first, but once you're immersed in the hobby you realise the other factions just look so much better!. Dark Eldar have arguably the best models in the game and despite the weakness oft he current rules for those models this game is about the models first. I'm building my Dark Eldar because I love the models. I'll make them work somehow on the table but it's all about the models for me.

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Causalis
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PostSubject: Re: Hey Guys New to Warhammer 40k   Sat Aug 06 2016, 14:36

Could we just stop talking about Space Marines? Dark Eldar are one of the least played factions already and if Seeryous wants to learn more about them, he may want to go to a different website (Bolter & Chainsword etc.). I don't intend to sound like a huge douche but you don't see me register in a Chaos Daemons forum to talk about how I somehow like Grey Knights more than them. Also, Necrons are an even better "beginner army", since they are tougher, more forgiving and can do pretty much everything be it CC or shooting.

TL;DR:

If you are looking for a faction with awesome looking models, a fast paced playstile, glashammer units and the requirement for some tactical thinking you are right at home here.
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CurstAlchemist
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PostSubject: Re: Hey Guys New to Warhammer 40k   Sat Aug 06 2016, 17:42

@Causalis, he is new to Warhammer 40k not just dark eldar and the game is an expensive hobby, the talk about space marines was to help him understand how the game functions so that he can invest his money where he feels it would best be spent. I myself am not a space marine player and was going to direct him to a more appropriate website as my knowledge is lacking past what I have already told him on them.

@Seeryous, a great place to find information and help on the Space Marines is this website http://www.bolterandchainsword.com/ it might take a day or so for the mods to confirm your account, but the community is a pretty good one from my experience.

Now keep in mind that if it was the lore and the look of the Dark Eldar that drew you to them you won't really find another faction that is like it. So if you are more of a story driven player, want to aim more for narrative campaign rather than random pick up games and such while being a fan of the essence that is Dark Eldar then I would probably recommend playing them. With a narrative non-competitive aspect you can some what tailor the missions to be more fluff oriented instead of focusing on just the competitive side. I recommend listening to some of the Splittermind pod casts I believe they just did one last month about narrative play that might help give you some ideas if that is what you would like to do.

Space Marines on the other hand, despite all there flavors, boil down to an ethos of Burn the Witch (those psykers who aren't part of the government), slay the Mutant and the Xeno, Worship the Emperor (which by the way was against his will while he still walked and wasn't a decaying body on the Throne), and that humanity is the only race that should exist.

As for the Harlequins, if you like their apperance they are great allies for the Dark Eldar, like mentioned before they complement the Freakshow style of play well, they are battle brothers so no penalties when allied with them, and they themselves very depending on which subgroup in the lore you are looking at. One even plays the part of always being the betrayer and can't be trusted by anyone while another one has taken it upon themselves to keep an eternal vigil against the Necrons and will team up with anyone needed to keep them from awakening when they find them stirring upon a Tomb World.

Dark Eldar are the a society of Meritocratic hedonists. They only achieve power by being worthy but they have to constantly watch their back. To keep Slaanesh from devouring their souls they do horrible and depraved things (which they like to do, don't get me wrong) and by doing these horrendous tortures and killings they exchange the souls of those others to prolong their own existence. They are Pirates, slavers, gladiators, mad scientists, and hedonists. They take drugs, they indulge in their own pleasures.

If it is the lore and the stories you can craft that drive you I recommend going and read up on them on websites such as the Lexicanum. If you are looking for aesthetics I don't think you will really top our miniatures at this point unless it just isn't an aesthetic you are into (given you here I'm not sure that is the case though Smile ) and if it is the fluff/lore then I recommend that you read up on them before you invest into it as this hobby can get really expensive. Make sure that you are happy with what you are getting into first and for most then spend the money.

DEATH MASQUE: Okay it is finally up for preorder in the U.S. it is 150 USD, that is a great deal, you are looking at ~220 USD just for the Harlequins if you bought the boxes separately. This comes with a mini-rule book as well. It also includes 3 campaign style missions. https://www.games-workshop.com/en-US/Warhammer-40000-Death-Masque-ENG If you are interested in getting Harlequins as allies for a Dark Eldar force this is a great start.
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PostSubject: Re: Hey Guys New to Warhammer 40k   Sat Aug 06 2016, 18:41

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Could we just stop talking about Space Marines? Dark Eldar are one of the least played factions already and if Seeryous wants to learn more about them, he may want to go to a different website (Bolter & Chainsword etc.)

We are a DE forum, but it is still nice to help new members, especially when they are new to the hobby in general. We should always be happy to help whenever we can. Smile

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PostSubject: Re: Hey Guys New to Warhammer 40k   Sat Aug 06 2016, 18:54

Something in that last post didn't sound quite right ;P lol

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Causalis
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PostSubject: Re: Hey Guys New to Warhammer 40k   Sat Aug 06 2016, 19:12

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We are a DE forum, but it is still nice to help new members, especially when they are new to the hobby in general. We should always be happy to help whenever we can. Smile

Absolutely agree with you. We can give lots of advice about the general game etc. but if he wants to know more about Space Marines, this is the wrong place. Not because we wouldn't have the knowledge about that army etc. but because this website isn't dedicated to the Space Marines and AFAIK doesn't have a sub-forum for this (apart from the "Other Allies" part but I don't think that's what he's looking for).

So instead of broadening his view on the Space Marines (which is something that other websites are better qualified for) we should maybe elaborate on what it is that the Dark Kin have to offer (like CurstAlchemist did).

So apart from the Dark Eldar's story being the wet dream of every teenage edgelord out there, they offer playstyles that no other faction has.

Think about it this way:

Most armies offer a variety of things they are good at, which is what their playstyles are derived from. The Astra Militarum, for example is pretty much normal humans + World War II tanks/artillery. They can build their army with a ton of artillery and heavy weapon teams which would make for a "hold the line" kind of army that is just a static gunline. Or they may go all out on tanks and rush down the enemy with mech power.

The Deldar are inherently squishy, since most of our models are Toughness 3 (if you want to wound something, you roll your weapon's strength value against the toughness value of the unit. Strenght 4 wounds toughness 4 on a 4+, toughness three on a 3+. Minimum is a 2+) and have almost no armour to protect them. What we do have, however, is lots of poison (wounding stuff always on a 4+), along with very fast vehicles and the option to reduce the enemy's leadership value so that his troops flee from the battlefield. We can also pull off some shenanigans where we use psychic abilities or artefacts that roll against the target's Leadership value and inflict wounds if our roll is higher than the target's leadership.

But I digress. So we are fast and we have some nice guns. But what about those Grotesques and Talos we talked about?

Well, Dark Eldar are not just good at shooting things, we also have units that hit like a ton of bricks in close combat. Grotesques are essentially former Dark Eldar on mega steroids² that can absorb quite a lot of firepower. We can just plop them into one of our fast vehicles and zoom them to the enemy to wreck havoc.

The Talos is much like the Grotesques but even tougher. Whilst Grots will kill Space Marines, the Talos will take on their big brethren like Terminators, Bikers or even tanks etc.

If you like to toy with your enemy you may want to get some Harlequins which make good allies to the Dark Eldar. They have all kinds of troll-tastic psychic powers that mess with your opponent and they are surprisingly potent as an assault army.
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PostSubject: Re: Hey Guys New to Warhammer 40k   Sat Aug 06 2016, 21:27

^ This

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PostSubject: Re: Hey Guys New to Warhammer 40k   Sun Aug 07 2016, 09:57

well space marine don't have to be blue the blue color is for the the faction of UltraMarine but there is more than a 100 factions and you can paint it the way you want nobody will tell you anything
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PostSubject: Re: Hey Guys New to Warhammer 40k   Tue Aug 09 2016, 03:50

Space marines do NOT have to be blue.  In fact, more so than any other faction, Space marines are the most diverse in their heraldry.  You have everything from very knight-esque bright colors to down and dirty realism.  In fact, it's probably best to create your very own paint scheme and chapter (a space marine army with a distinct identity) so that you can "count as" your models as any one of the 10+ chapters that have their own special benefits and methods for conducting warfare.  I find most players are generally very accepting of differently painted armies counting as a specific army with an established paint scheme just for rules benefits as long as you're still following the allies rules and the faction rules correctly.

And the same goes true for any other army, although some armies (such as the dark eldar) do not have such sub-faction-specific rules and still have sub-factions in the fluff and paint schemes to show for it.

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