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 What should I get next?

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The goat
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PostSubject: What should I get next?   Fri Jul 29 2016, 09:45

Hello, I am The Goat and I lead the kabal of the Poison Lotus to victory and (mostly) defeat. What I wanted to know us exactly what the title is, so, what do you think?
My current collection includes:
1 Archon
29 kabalite worriors
5 reaver jetbikes
1 raider
Obviously not very much but that's why I'm posting. A 500 point list I would make would be:
CAD
1 Archon, webway portal, Djinn blade
5 kabalite worriors
5 kabalite worriors
5 kabalite trueborn 3 with blasters, 1 with shredder
5 reavers, one arena champion with heat lance, cluster caltrops
Raider (dedicated transport for the kabalite worriors
I am a noob.
I play casual.


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Klaive
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PostSubject: Re: What should I get next?   Fri Jul 29 2016, 11:22

Venoms to move those 5 man squads around would be my suggestion for your next step.

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Squidmaster
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PostSubject: Re: What should I get next?   Fri Jul 29 2016, 11:43

More transports are essential.
Dark Eldar rely on mobility, so what you really need is either Raiders or Venoms. If you plan on 5-man units, go for Venoms.
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Archon Vitcus
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PostSubject: Re: What should I get next?   Fri Jul 29 2016, 15:04

First, get a single warrior to make 30 and another reaver to make 6 lol

Transports are the lifeblood of the army so venoms and raiders are a next step to buy, I'd suggest 4 venoms minimal and at least 2 raiders for now.
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Causalis
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PostSubject: Re: What should I get next?   Fri Jul 29 2016, 15:13

Quote :
Transports are the lifeblood of the army so venoms and raiders are a next step to buy, I'd suggest 4 venoms minimal and at least 2 raiders for now.

To be fair, Raiders are rather useless as gunboats thanks to the FAQ. Only use them for transporting CC units.
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pgreg
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PostSubject: Re: What should I get next?   Fri Jul 29 2016, 17:03

I think venoms as well, they have been a good investment. Do you play the gun boat raider? I still favour it as loved it before the FAQ, hopefully it will still surprise people even shooting at long range. i found opponents fixate a bit after being shot with it, for at least 1 turn until it is destroyed!
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Demantiae
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PostSubject: Re: What should I get next?   Fri Jul 29 2016, 17:34

@Causalis wrote:
Quote :
Transports are the lifeblood of the army so venoms and raiders are a next step to buy, I'd suggest 4 venoms minimal and at least 2 raiders for now.

To be fair, Raiders are rather useless as gunboats thanks to the FAQ. Only use them for transporting CC units.

Take nightshields and keep the boat in cover? No need to jink then. Focus on placement and removing the return fire that might otherwise force you to jink.

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Causalis
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PostSubject: Re: What should I get next?   Fri Jul 29 2016, 17:42

Quote :
I still favour it as loved it before the FAQ, hopefully it will still surprise people even shooting at long range.

I don't think it will to be honest. Even with re-rolls AND at RFR you'll only hit about 7 shots, which will result in ~4 wounds minus armour/cover saves. That is not much damage and nothing that would make the Raider a valid threat and/or surprise the enemy.

A Raider w/ Nightshields, Lance and Splinter Pods with 10 Warriors (one with a Splinter Cannon) clocks in at 185 points.

For 170 points you could get two Venoms with Splinter Cannons and a Squad of 5 Warriors. Not only would this result in more dakka than the single Raider, it would also avoid the whole "putting your eggs in a highly explosive basket" situation.

Raiders are still fine for transporting Grots or other CC units. They may even make good gunboats when they deepstrike with 10 Medusae or, as Demantiae pointed out, sit in cover etc. but if you have to choose between the Raider or the Venom when it comes to making a gunboat, I would take the Venom. But do as you like.
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Jimsolo
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PostSubject: Re: What should I get next?   Fri Jul 29 2016, 18:32

Your purchasing priority should be:

Raiders/Venoms (Either/or--I prefer Venoms)
Grotesques
A Succubus to replace the Archon
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Causalis
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PostSubject: Re: What should I get next?   Fri Jul 29 2016, 19:35

Quote :
Your purchasing priority should be:

Raiders/Venoms (Either/or--I prefer Venoms)
Grotesques
A Succubus to replace the Archon

And Ravagers!
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Squidmaster
Incubi
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PostSubject: Re: What should I get next?   Fri Jul 29 2016, 19:48

Actually, as is, you've got enough for a Purge Coterie.
Build on that I think.
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pgreg
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PostSubject: Re: What should I get next?   Fri Jul 29 2016, 19:58

I agree with Causalis that Venoms are the better way to go as a gun boat and if I was in your position again would look to venoms as the next purchase group (followed up with a Ravager). I'll admit to some romantacism with a Raider gunboat and some minor success that keepsme plugging away. Venoms I would recommend, over more raiders at this stage like the others have suggested.
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Archon Vitcus
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PostSubject: Re: What should I get next?   Fri Jul 29 2016, 20:31

Remember, the faq at present, is a draft. It's not official as of yet.
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Causalis
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PostSubject: Re: What should I get next?   Fri Jul 29 2016, 20:40

Quote :
Remember, the faq at present, is a draft. It's not official as of yet.

True. So you may just ignore it until it is official. But I don't see there being big changes when it comes out. At least there has been no comment that would indicate that they will change stuff like the jinking etc.
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Rewind
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PostSubject: Re: What should I get next?   Fri Jul 29 2016, 23:19

Venoms, I love Venoms, but, 500 Raider spam is possible:

DE PC + CAD (498)

Archon, Blaster (75) Rides in Lhamaens Raider
5 Warriors, Lance Raider (100)
3 Reavers, CC (63)

Lhamaen, Cannon Raider (65)
5 Warriors, Lance Raider (100)
5 Warriors, Cannon Raider (95)

Problem is owning 4 Raiders @ 500 points lol
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Frederick Vael
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PostSubject: Re: What should I get next?   Sat Jul 30 2016, 01:15

@Causalis wrote:
Quote :
Your purchasing priority should be:

Raiders/Venoms (Either/or--I prefer Venoms)
Grotesques
A Succubus to replace the Archon

And Ravagers!

As a cool tip, you could "ignore" buying Ravagers all together. When I started I spammed buying Raiders because a) they were cheap, and b) people kept gifting them to me on holidays and birthdays. In the end, I had extra Raiders, and no ravagers, and I decided to build a ravager out of a raider.

I used a Raider, and 2 extra sails, the biggest one, as some kind of "fins". I then used those hanging warriors from the raiders, glued their hooks to the main sail, and positiones a Dark Lance/Dessintregator on top of the fin, and manned by the warrior. It looked so freaking cool, that I decided to never buy a Ravager and just keep spamming Raiders.

I'll edit with a photo.

EDIT: Et voila!





As you can see, it is in an status of perpetual WIP.
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stevethedestroyeofworlds
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PostSubject: Re: What should I get next?   Sat Jul 30 2016, 02:26

That is amazing!
Totally gonna try that, and likely fail miserably!

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The goat
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PostSubject: Re: What should I get next?   Sat Jul 30 2016, 10:03

Me too lol.
Thanks everyone.
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Demantiae
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PostSubject: Re: What should I get next?   Sat Jul 30 2016, 10:15

@Causalis wrote:
Quote :
I still favour it as loved it before the FAQ, hopefully it will still surprise people even shooting at long range.

I don't think it will to be honest. Even with re-rolls AND at RFR you'll only hit about 7 shots, which will result in ~4 wounds minus armour/cover saves. That is not much damage and nothing that would make the Raider a valid threat and/or surprise the enemy.

A Raider w/ Nightshields, Lance and Splinter Pods with 10 Warriors (one with a Splinter Cannon) clocks in at 185 points.

For 170 points you could get two Venoms with Splinter Cannons and a Squad of 5 Warriors. Not only would this result in more dakka than the single Raider, it would also avoid the whole "putting your eggs in a highly explosive basket" situation.

Raiders are still fine for transporting Grots or other CC units. They may even make good gunboats when they deepstrike with 10 Medusae or, as Demantiae pointed out, sit in cover etc. but if you have to choose between the Raider or the Venom when it comes to making a gunboat, I would take the Venom. But do as you like.

Raiders and venoms serve different roles really. Raiders have three uses, to transport smacky units across the table, to gunboat or to provide mobile cover/board control. Venoms only have one - shoot infantry. When you take into consideration jinking then raiders are better (venoms can't take night shields) and lose less by doing so (1 shot vs 12). Only if you try to gunboat them do raiders have to start worrying about not jinking. Statistically gunboats are very close to venoms in damage output but provide the troops better protection, which is good because you're taking large squads. With venoms the squad is more a bonus that you dump on an objective if you need to.

Both vehicles are competitive in a list, it just depends on which flavour of shoots you prefer. And you have to play them differently too. Gunboats probably work better deep striking whilst venoms work best on the table turn 1.

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The Strange Dark One
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PostSubject: Re: What should I get next?   Sat Jul 30 2016, 18:13

Quote :
Statistically gunboats are very close to venoms in damage output but provide the troops better protection, which is good because you're taking large squads. With venoms the squad is more a bonus that you dump on an objective if you need to.

Both vehicles are competitive in a list, it just depends on which flavour of shoots you prefer. And you have to play them differently too. Gunboats probably work better deep striking whilst venoms work best on the table turn 1.

Actually, gunboats give you more poison shots / points and you basically get the DL/Dissie free of charge on top. However, Venoms can conveniently shoot from a distance, while you really need to make use of the Rapid Fire range (+ Splinter Racks) to make them worthwhile.

Attacking from such close range however, puts Raiders and everything inside in a lot of danger and most don't consider it worth the risk (including me).


Last edited by The Strange Dark One on Sun Jul 31 2016, 01:40; edited 2 times in total
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CurstAlchemist
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PostSubject: Re: What should I get next?   Sat Jul 30 2016, 19:07

One advantage you have with the venom over the raider is that the venom has flickerfield so it isn't as important to jink. Depending on what your group is like and if they are using the FAQ first draft or will be using the ruling that jink causes snap firing once it becomes official, this might be of importance to note.

And like the Strange Dark One said, you are getting very close to use rapid fire to full effect, keep in mind that the raider is only AV 10 and can be brought down by str 4 and it isn't like mobility and/or ignores cover is hard for many factions to come by these days.

@Archon Vitcus wrote:
Remember, the faq at present, is a draft. It's not official as of yet.

Yes but if we are speaking of people being new to DE and their money I think it it is important to keep this in consideration so that they don't feel they wasted their money later. Just because it isn't official at this time does not mean that they shouldn't think about what the near future will mean for curtain investments into the hobby.
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Dodo_Night
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PostSubject: Re: What should I get next?   Sat Jul 30 2016, 23:50


I certainly recommend venoms for the continuous mobile firepower. You would need them in quantity so 4 of them for your kabalites? As for the raider, put an assault squad with archon in it. grots, wyches, incubi or wracks are the choices so go for what you think you'd like. try proxying your remaining kabalites as those in test games or scenarios just to see what one would suit you. And seeing as you have reaver jetbikes, you have enough for the realspace raider detachment minimum requirments. i personally prefer incubi but then my opponents tend to be in power armour or terminator armour xD

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