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 To Null or not?!

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pgreg
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PostSubject: To Null or not?!   Thu Jul 28 2016, 20:31

I am seeking some advice re: null deployment prior to submitting a list for an upcoming tournament. What do you think null deployment is best used against or do you find it better to have the option available when playing in a tournament. The points value is 1950 and last year saw a large variety of armies with all factions being represented at least once (orks!). Knowing since then there has been a growth in formations etc.

I would be looking at a scalpel squad with either CAD or RSR, or ditching the scapel just double CAD or RSR. No other Covens apart form the wracks and haemonc available.

Thanks for your insight in advance.

Pgreg
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Azdrubael
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PostSubject: Re: To Null or not?!   Thu Jul 28 2016, 20:48

You want to null deploy against armies, against which you will be crippled in first turns.

General idea of null deploy is to come and cause damage and suffer less damage then your enemy in return. Thats pretty much it. Disadvantage is that you come by bits, but those bits bite when they come.

If you asking whether to null-deploy ask 2 questions
1) Am i going to be damaged much if i deploy?
2) Will i do more damage against enemy if i drop from the sky or if i stay on board?

Good null deploy army should do both deployments and have unit selections that capitalise on all deepstrike.

If you see you need to rush across the board to go into battle while be awashed with shooting - null deploy.

If enemy will come to you - deploy on the side of the board and shoot. When enemy comes close - reposition with full flat-out. Orks "loves" this especially.

Take CAD, if you want Flyers, and in null deploying you want them - take FLyer Detachment. And Scalpel ofc.

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Last edited by Azdrubael on Thu Jul 28 2016, 22:06; edited 2 times in total
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Frederick Vael
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PostSubject: Re: To Null or not?!   Thu Jul 28 2016, 20:52

Following last post, for instance, an army like Orks or Tyranids, that wouldn't harm you that much on 1 round of shooting, but that you could harm A LOT by start shooting as soon as possible are armies that you wouldn't want to go null deploying. Just leave your raiders and venoms behind cover, and on your turn 1 go on a rampage.

On the other hand, armies like Eldars and Tau, that could ignore cover, and blow up a big bunch of your army should be good armies to null deploy against.

i am not an expert on the matter, as I almost never null deploy, but thats the rule I follow to keeping or not part of my army on reserves.
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pgreg
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PostSubject: Re: To Null or not?!   Thu Jul 28 2016, 21:59

I tend to follow your thinking in my play already Frederick and have tried once before to null deploy but it didn't feel happy with it and it had no positive overall effect on the game, I still lost (though I am average general at best!).
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MHaruspex
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PostSubject: Re: To Null or not?!   Fri Jul 29 2016, 02:03

Null deploy and deepstrike against armies that will do significant damage turn one. If the enemy has to come to you (Orks, KDK, etc), deploy on the board and shoot them as they approach.

If you're not sure, I'd err on the side of null deployment if you've built your army for it. But if there's no significantly threatening shooting, stay on the board each time.

Lately I've been experimenting with a Kabalite Raiding Party + Scalpel Squadron null deployment army. It's been working quite well.
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1++
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PostSubject: Re: To Null or not?!   Fri Jul 29 2016, 04:21

2-3 min squads of Mandrakes allow you to null deploy, less kill points and less army points then Scalpel Squadron. Use their Infiltrate to draw out enemy units across the board, so that when reserves come in you can attack at segments of the enemy rather than face most or all of what they have.

When are lists due?

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Frederick Vael
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PostSubject: Re: To Null or not?!   Fri Jul 29 2016, 04:40

But, again, the question was not "how to null" but if "to null or not to null", which is both valid, and rarely tackled I think.

I feel this question can be better answered on the battlefield, at least to try to asset your guts response. Go play with a friend, let him go first, and when it's your turn to deploy, look at the table, and try to see what's scary to you, what makes you afraid of harming your army. That's what you should null-deploy against, and what you should use to gauge whenever a situation is asking for it, or if your planned army actually needs of null deployment at all.

In my experience, long range-high strength shots are what makes me afraid. I have played enough blood bowl to know that rolling dice is a bad thing. Even if I have a 3+ jink save, those 1 and 2 are there, and 1 penetrating hit can ruin your day. If the enemy pack a lot of them, or at least they are inside vehicles or something that can be blowed up in one turn, I tend to hold back, to both try to minimize the amount of time I'm being shot at, and by trying to blow them up before they do any harm.

Aaaaaaaand flamers. The enemy got drop-pod flamers? Then go null. Let them go first, let them waste  most pods, so you can dodge those telegraphed flamers, cause flamers kill dark eldars fast.

Damn, we sure are xenos, aren't we?
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pgreg
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PostSubject: Re: To Null or not?!   Fri Jul 29 2016, 16:57

Hi 1++, Lists are due 9/8/16 for Eastcon, are you coming down? Unfortunately I don't own any mandrakes (love the models though) and won't be getting any as yet. I need to beef up my Kabalites by 1 more squad and some more jetbikes so I can have 12 total and split them as more evenly.

The tournament has a mix of maelstrom and eternal missions, so like Frederick said need to assess the battlefield and opponent first. I will have to look out for those drop pods. I am leaning towards scapel with RSR to maximise fast attack and have best option for null deployment if I choose to or just keep my opponent guessing. Not sure about the wracks in venoms as that is 2 of my 3 used (that is a whole other discussion). Is giving yourself more options in deployment better for tournaments?

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Draco
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PostSubject: Re: To Null or not?!   Fri Jul 29 2016, 20:45

Do you have a list made up yet? How prepared are you to Null Deploy if you decide on it?
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Draco
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PostSubject: Re: To Null or not?!   Fri Jul 29 2016, 20:45

Double post
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pgreg
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PostSubject: Re: To Null or not?!   Fri Jul 29 2016, 21:13

It would look something like:
Scalpel squad
Lhamaean
Incubi in raider
Kabs in venom
Kabs with raider gunship x2
6x reavers
6x reavers
razorwing
scourge
lance ravager x2

Scalpel + RSR. Might add sucubus to the incubi. Probably not the most competative list but combined things I like and limited models. In one version I had Lelith instead of succubus.
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CptMetal
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PostSubject: Re: To Null or not?!   Sat Jul 30 2016, 09:27

I'd take null deployment via scalpel against drop pods armies and let him go first. No mandrake because they are toast and you loose.
And don't take the RSR because objective secured is too valuable to trade against that garbage.

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SCP Yeeman
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PostSubject: Re: To Null or not?!   Sat Jul 30 2016, 15:28

Your army does not feel like a null deploy army. Usually when I think of one, it has lots of redundancy so if you do not get your *insert unit here* in you ave another in the wind. You have lots of melee units which will want to be on the board. Reavers can hide very well because of Skill Rider. Incubi are another melee unit that will want to be on the board and not have to wait until at least turn 3 to show up and try to contribute.

You have some nice elements in your army, but I feel the Scalpel Squadron may hinder you via null deployment more than help you.
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pgreg
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PostSubject: Re: To Null or not?!   Sat Jul 30 2016, 16:27

Thanks SCP thats what I suspected after reading everyones input and going back over some old posts. I think I will go double CAD to get the most from fast attack.
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