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 How to build an army with the models I have

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Causalis
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PostSubject: How to build an army with the models I have   Sat Jul 23 2016, 01:55

Alright guys, I have been assembling and painting my models for the last two weeks. Here is what I have:

1x Archon
1x Succubus
20x Warriors
3x Reaver Jetbikes
1x Talos
2x Venoms
1x Raider
1x Ravager

I was thinking something like this:
Archon (115 points)
- Blaster, Agoniser, The Armour of Misery

---------- Troops (3) ----------

5x Kabalite Warriors (120 points)
- Blaster
- Venom (Splinter Cannon)

5x Kabalite Warriors (120 points)
- Blaster
- Venom (Splinter Cannon)

9x Kabalite Warriors (162 points)
- Raider (Dark Lance, Night Shields, Splinter Racks)

---------- Fast Attack (1) ----------

3x Reavers (73 points)
- Heat Lance, Cluster Caltrops

---------- Heavy Support (2) ----------

Talos (130 points)
- Talos (Ichor Injector, Twin-linked Splinter Cannon)

Ravager (140 points)
- 3x Dark Lance, Night Shields

Would add up to 860 points.

What should be my next purchases? I am thinking about buying two or three more Venoms, a squad of Incubi (so that I have a unit to put my Succubus in) and then either a Haemy + Cronos (for Dark Artisan Formation) or a Haemy + 6 Grots (for Grotesquerie).
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sixteen.scandals
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PostSubject: Re: How to build an army with the models I have   Sat Jul 23 2016, 05:16

Looks like a good start. Definitely get more venoms for those warriors. I'd skip the Incubi and go for the Grotesquerie to escort your succubus. Get an additional Raider and do 2 squads of grots, each in a raider. one Raider with grots+haemy and one raider with grots+succubus. you could still get another haemy and cronos for dark artisan. Basically flat-out your raiders into the enemy's line turn one and then turn 2 use WWP to plop dark artisan between both units for stupid tough grots.

other than that, more ravagers!
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Kantalla
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PostSubject: Re: How to build an army with the models I have   Sat Jul 23 2016, 05:53

There are a few things there I don't really like.

I would prefer to see the Archon either Agoniser or Blaster, and not both. Given you don't have models for any melee, then dropping the Agoniser seems the way to go.

Blasters on the Kabalite Warriors is something I would generally avoid. Do you have enough Blasters for a unit of Trueborn instead? If you don't, your anti-tank is really limiting, so it may be worth keeping them in until you upgrade the collection a little.

The unit of Kabalite Warriors in the Raider are heavily impacted by the draft FAQ ruling on jink. Is that in use in your playing group? The Raider will need cover in some form to be effective, so your options are jinking if the draft FAQ is not being used, sitting in area terrain with limited movement, or bringing your own mobile cover with Venoms and Reavers. If the draft FAQ is in use then we effectively end up with Venoms for shooty units and Raiders for assault units.

Reavers, Talos and Ravager are fine. The Reavers could drop the Heat Lance, but as with the Kabalite Warriors you might want to keep it for now due to the lack of anti-tank elsewhere in the list.

In terms of next purchases, the main priorities would be to improve your anti-tank ability and make use of the Succubus / Raider.

For Anti-Tank I would suggest two more Ravagers are the best bet. That would allow you to trim points in some other places.

Incubi are OK, but are not as good as Grotesques (or the Court of the Archon). To get use from your Succubus and Raider, you could get three Grotesques to start, with future plans to expand to the Grotesquerie.

A couple of extra Venoms to make best use of your Warriors would also be a good idea.

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Causalis
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PostSubject: Re: How to build an army with the models I have   Sat Jul 23 2016, 08:39

Thanks for the input, I appreciate it!

I am still torn between buying the Grots or converting them. 21€ PER MODEL is just INSANE, since I would need at least SIX of those to run the Grotesquerie. Why GW doesn't sell them as 3 models for 40€ (or 50€) is beyond me. They are also mail order here in Germany, which means that I'll have to wait 2+ weeks for my order to arrive.

I do love the Succubus mini. Great model, great pose! For now I'll order two more Venoms (thus I have a Venom for each Warrior squad), two Ravagers and three Grots and a Haemy. I may cut the Grots and Haemy, depending on how much money I have available.

I am also very interested in a Razorwing. Once I have aquired the Grots (and/or Dark Artisan), should I get one or should I rather go for Scourges or maybe Incubi?

To be fair, I tend to go for the models I like, despite them being less effective. So I might pick up the Incubi before I even buy another Ravager, since I love the models. ^^"
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Kantalla
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PostSubject: Re: How to build an army with the models I have   Sat Jul 23 2016, 11:41

I think converting the Grotesques is a good idea. Apart from anything else, with just a single model, you will have such a similar pose between the different models in the unit.

Succubus is a cool model, and our most effective of the independent characters. In a pure Dark Eldar list, I think the most effective way to field her is with a unit of Grotesques in a Raider. I would suggest you get Grotesques without the Haemonculus first, and when you can then expand to have the full Grotesquerie.

In terms of game efficiency I would rank Scourges ahead of the Incubi and Razorwing. However, having models that you really like is a perfectly valid reason to field them in your list (I usually run a Voidraven for that very reason).

Razorwings are great if you run into a weak armour save horde list, like large units of Orks. However, with four Venoms of Warriors you should find anti-infantry is not a big issue, and anti-tank will be a bigger priority.

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Archon Vitcus
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PostSubject: Re: How to build an army with the models I have   Sat Jul 23 2016, 17:10

If you want to covert Grots, best thing to use is the vampire counts Varghiest/ crypt horror box and mix talos bit to them, even a simple face plate over a horrors face will suffice. Your getting a talos and three Grots for the price you would roughly pay for the three Grots alone and the look a hell of a lot better than the actual GW model. I've seen people use rat ogres and imperial guard ogryns, but they don't scream Grots to me.

As for the army so far, it's pretty much what I had to start, though I had more wyches over warriors when they were good (how I miss haywire wyches). I would definitely increase the reavers when you get the chance and as the others stated more ravagers to fill out your anti tank. 4 venoms minimum is usually enough firepower to drain infantry so another couple would be good as well
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tegs
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PostSubject: Re: How to build an army with the models I have   Sun Jul 24 2016, 01:45

You can fit a Purge Coterie in there.

Purge Coterie
155 Archon, HW 'nades, Huskblade or Agoniser, in Venom w. Cannons
55 Raider
63 3xReavers, caltrops
180 5xTrueborn w. 4 blaster, Venom w. Cannons

CAD
115 Succubus, Archite Glaive, HW 'nades, Armour of Misery, embarked in the Archon's Venom
80 10xWarriors, embarked in the Raider
40 5xWarriors, foot slogging, try to grab an objective with them
125 Ravager w. 3 DL
120 Talos

That's 933 points, leaving you plenty of wiggle room to get to 1000.  The Archon definitely needs either Shadow Field or Clone Field, and the Talos could certainly use a TL HW blaster.  Lots of other options there.

The biggest threat in my mind is the Blasterborn squad in a Venom which can have Preferred Enemy.  That should wreck face while giving you a lot more anti-vehicle potential.

I'm not sure how well the Archon and Succubus would do in assault without supporting troops to soak up overwatch fire and wounds.  Putting Grots with them in a raider would help there, but would probably mean dropping the Talos; I think that's a good trade myself.

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Causalis
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PostSubject: Re: How to build an army with the models I have   Sun Jul 24 2016, 01:54

Today I picked up another Venom and a box of Crypt Horros, which I am converting into Grotesques. So I would effectively have 3x Grotesques which would give me a unit that I could stick the Succubus with. Thus I can embark them in the Raider, which seems to me is the better option than sticking 10 Warriors in there (because of the new FAQ).

The idea with the Blasterborn in the Purge Coterie is pretty good! Thanks for the input. Smile
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tegs
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PostSubject: Re: How to build an army with the models I have   Sun Jul 24 2016, 02:05

Nice.  That gives you this, then:

Purge Coterie
130 Archon, HW 'nades, Huskblade or Agoniser, Shadow Field, embarked in Raider
55 Raider
63 3xReavers, caltrops
180 5xTrueborn w. 4 blaster, Venom w. Cannons

CAD
115 Succubus, Archite Glaive, HW 'nades, Armour of Misery, embarked in Raider
210 Two units of 5xWarriors, Venom w. Cannons
125 Ravager w. 3 DL
105 3xGrots, embarked in Raider

983 pts.  I'd put a Night Shield on the Raider because that's a lot of points in one unit, which puts you at 998.  :-)

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Causalis
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PostSubject: Re: How to build an army with the models I have   Sun Jul 24 2016, 02:15

Sweet! Thanks! Should I upgrade a Grot to an Aberration w/ Scissorhand? That would give me another option for a challenge - but then again, if the Succubus is in a situation where she does not accept a challenge, she kind of isn't doing what she is meant to.
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tegs
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PostSubject: Re: How to build an army with the models I have   Sun Jul 24 2016, 03:28

I wouldn't. The Succubus and Archon are the armour killers. You could assault a vehicle as well, since the Arch and Succubus both have HW nades and the grots will glance AV 10 on 5s. Remember that CC is always against rear armour.

Wish I had two more Venoms now so I could try this myself.

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Rewind
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PostSubject: Re: How to build an army with the models I have   Sun Jul 24 2016, 06:48

@tegs wrote:

Purge Coterie
130 Archon, HW 'nades, Huskblade or Agoniser, Shadow Field, embarked in Raider
55 Raider
63 3xReavers, caltrops
180 5xTrueborn w. 4 blaster, Venom w. Cannons

CAD
115 Succubus, Archite Glaive, HW 'nades, Armour of Misery, embarked in Raider
210 Two units of 5xWarriors, Venom w. Cannons
125 Ravager w. 3 DL
105 3xGrots, embarked in Raider

983 pts.  I'd put a Night Shield on the Raider because that's a lot of points in one unit, which puts you at 998.  :-)

Without suggesting u go another way entirely, with this type list, I would suggest the following:

In the PC, drop evrything from the Archon & give him a WWP, then put him with the Trueborn in the Lance Raider. U'll only have 1 round of full BS shooting before Jink nullifies the PE, your now guaranteed to get the Blasters & Lance shot where u need them.

I would definately also get the Abberation in the Grots. for Ramage & to let u drop the AOM.

PC (398)
Archon, WWP, Cannon Venom (160) Embarks in TB Raider (Venom goes solo maybe picking up the Archon after the Raider pops)
5 x Trueborn, 4 x Blasters, Lance Raider (175)
3 x Reavers, CC (63)

CAD (600)
Succubus, Glaive, (95)
3 x Grots, incl. Abber, Raider (170)
2 x 5 Warriors, Cannon Venoms (210)
Triple Lance Ravager (125)

998 & only a tweaking of your list. Personally I think the PC isn't worth it & a 2nd Ravager would be better than the TB, dropping the Archon gets u a 3rd, or 2 & a unit of HWB Scourges for variety PLUS more Reavers Smile

CAD 996

Succubus, Glaive, AOM, HWG (115)
3 x Grots, Incl Abber, Raider (170)
2 x 5 Warriors, Cannon Venoms (210)
2 x 3 Reavers, CC (126)
3 x Triple Lance Ravagers (375)


Last edited by Rewind on Sun Jul 24 2016, 06:53; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : Making it clearer :))
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Causalis
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PostSubject: Re: How to build an army with the models I have   Sun Jul 24 2016, 09:12

I've got something like this:

PC:

1x Archon w/ Haywire Grenades and Venom + Cannon
5x Trueborn w/ 4x Blasters w/ Raider + Lance
3x Reavers W/ CC

CAD:
1x Succubus w/ AoM. Haywire Grenade
3x Grots w/ Aberration + Scissor Hand + Raider +  Lance

2x5 Warriors + 2x Venoms w/ Cannons
1x Ravager 2/ 3x Lances

998 points.

I do realise that this list is sub-par. But these are the models that I have (minus 1 Raider, I only have ONE at the moment but I can proxy). So this is what I'll have to work with.
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PostSubject: Re: How to build an army with the models I have   Sun Jul 24 2016, 09:29

If you don't WWP the Archon, maybe a Blaster so u have 5 in the Raider?

List isn't sub-par, just the best of what you've got!

I doubt many people really have all the models to field some of the expensive suggestions they post on forums.

My local is more than happy to allow proxy units, less than half the models even fielded our painted etc.

The thing I like about DE is that upto 1250, starting out, there our a number of fun different ways to build & play, yes some our more efficient on paper, but we don't play on paper.

My last game I stole the initiative, then rolled 3 1's for my Ravagers 1st shooting phase.

Fail to Plan, Plan to Fail.

No plan survives 1st contact with the enemy.

Both SAS mantra's lol.
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Myrvn
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PostSubject: Re: How to build an army with the models I have   Sun Jul 24 2016, 09:39

Quick thought on the succubus bit being in challenges... I've found it to be handy to have a separate character accept the challenge to have the Succubus destroy a lot of basic troops before getting stuck against an invulnerable save. Wyches aren't very good, but a succubus in a squad of wyches can do a solid job if the squad leader tanks the enemy character and the succubus takes out the enemy squaddies.

That assumes using wyches though they aren't terrible, but definitely not great.
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Kantalla
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PostSubject: Re: How to build an army with the models I have   Sun Jul 24 2016, 11:05

From a game efficiency point of view you are probably better to drop the Archon and go a single CAD, or if you go the Archon to not have the Succubus as well. All the same, can understand the desire to use all of your current models.

The Purge Coterie really makes me want to have options for a more versatile Archon set up. Would be good if you could give him a Splinter Cannon or Dark Lance, and sit high in some ruins with a squad of Mandrakes for a 2+ cover save. Alas that isn't an option.

To be properly effective he needs to be on the board, and the Venom, or joining the Grotesques are the most viable options you have available (as you might be deep striking the Trueborn). A Blaster would be better than Haywire Grenades.

Succubus I assume has an Archite Glaive as well. I think you can drop her Haywire Grenades.

I personally think upgrading to an Aberration is not worth it unless you give them an Agoniser. At a low point total, I would be tempted to drop the Aberration completely. Their Raider does not need a Dark Lance, as it is very likely to be jinking, and Night Shields would be nice if you can fit them.

Ravager needs a third Dark Lance, and Night Shields would be handy, but can't see a way to fit that in unless you drop the Armour of Misery.

Trueborn, Reavers and Kabalite Warriors are all fine.

My slightly revised suggestion is:

Purge Coterie
Archon with Blaster
Venom with Splinter Cannon

3 Reavers with Cluster Caltrops

5 Trueborn with 4 Blasters
Raider with Dark Lance

Combined Arms Detachment
Succubus with Archite Glaive, Armour of Misery

3 Grotesques
Raider with Night Shields

5 Kabalite Warriors
Venom with Splitner Cannon

5 Kabalite Warriors
Venom with Splitner Cannon

Ravager with 3 Dark Lances

998 points

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Causalis
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PostSubject: Re: How to build an army with the models I have   Mon Jul 25 2016, 07:23

Appreciate the feedback!

I forgot to mention that I also have a Shadow Seer, Solitaire and Death Jester for the Heroe's Path formation. The Solitaire seems a bit gimmicky and overpriced (since he is so fragile) but in various bat reps I've seen he has at least gotten his points back.

This is what I came up with:

CAD:
Succubus w/ Glaive, AoM, Haywire Grenades

5 Trueborn w/ 4x Blaster
Venom w/ Cannon

3 Grotesques
Raider w/ Night Shields

2x5 Warriors
Venoms w/ Cannon

3 Reavers w/ Cluster Caltrops

Ravager w/ 3 Dark Lances

Heroe's Path:

Shadowseer w/ Mastery Level 2, Mask of Secrets, Haywire Grenades

Death Jester

Solitaire w/ Haywire Grenades


1198 points




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