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 Crimson Death formation and Death fro the skies

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Kabalite Warrior
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PostSubject: Crimson Death formation and Death fro the skies   Thu Jul 14 2016, 09:14

I'm not sure about some aspects of new book, could ou explain me? It's not for a campain, but for a usual game (we mostly play according to ETC rules).

1. Do I need 1 reserve roll for all fighters, or should I roll 3 separate dices for each plane?
2. Do I get Wing Leader traits for one of my planes?
3. Do I get reserve manipulation, if I have more planes than my enemy?

As I understand I will get everything, if I take a formation from DFS book (air superiority or faction specific). But what for the other formations from codexes?

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stilgar27
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PostSubject: Re: Crimson Death formation and Death fro the skies   Thu Jul 14 2016, 16:39

Most of what you are looking for is found on page 60 of DFTS 2016.  This is word for word, minus some of the bulk.

"When a Flyer Wing is deployed, one of its vehicles must be nominated as the Wing Leader. The Wing Leader... receives a special Wing Leader ability to represent their exceptional skills (pg 76)...

Only make one Reserve Roll for all of the Flyers in a Flyer Wing. They either all arrive, or none do... Unlike other units, however, following their deployment, each Flyer in a Flyer Wing operates as an individual unit. Flyers never block the line of sight for other Flyers from their own Flyer Wing"

A wing is 2-4 flyers, either all the same type, or a faction specific formation.

1) you make 1 reserve roll per wing

2) One flyer per wing is nominated leader and rolls a leader bonus

3) Reserve manipulation comes from having more flyers in reserve than your opponent, or in that special formation if your wing leader is reserved (which stacks with the bonus for more reserved flyers).

So basically you'll be leaving an entire wing off the table, or bringing them all on then taking some back off to try and  get reserve manipulation.

Therefore the best way to get reserve manipulation overall seems to be an air superiority formation with a small wing dedicated to dog fighting and maintaining the reserve bonuses.  You're still leaving 2 flyers worth of points off the table to get that, at least until all your reserves are in, but that formation does allow for up to 2 more wings that would come on independently.
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BetrayTheWorld
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PostSubject: Re: Crimson Death formation and Death fro the skies   Fri Jul 15 2016, 00:54

I think he was asking if the Crimson Death formation can be counted as a flyer wing based on the rules of DFTS. I don't know the answer because I haven't read DFTS.
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stilgar27
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PostSubject: Re: Crimson Death formation and Death fro the skies   Fri Jul 15 2016, 01:20

Ignore me then, I was assuming crimson death was replicated in death from the skies and it isn't.  There are no rules as of yet migrating codex flyer formations to the new rule set, although some have been updated in death from the skies like the storm wing.

Now that I look, the only craftworld formation I see in the book is the shroud of kurnous, which is wraithfigher/psychic shenanigans and probably of little use to most.
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Laughingcarp
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PostSubject: Re: Crimson Death formation and Death fro the skies   Fri Jul 15 2016, 03:35

As I understand it, the Crimson Death formation is NOT a flyer wing.
A flyer wing is 2-4 of the same flyer chosen as a flyer wing. That's the key.

The Crimson Death formation specifies "3 Crimson Hunters";
not 3 units of Crimson Hunters
not 3 Flyer Wings of Crimson Hunters
not even a Flyer Wing consisting of 3 Crimson Hunters.

Yes obviously that's because DftS was released after the Eldar codex, but new releases have rarely if ever before retroactively upgraded previous codices.

It's the same way that when a formation says "1 Talos, 1 Cronos, 1 Haemonculus" it absolutely does not mean "1 unit of Talos, 1 unit of Cronos, 1 Haemonculus".

GW goes on to clarify this and establish precedent in their draft FAQ, citing that any formation that declares "1 X, Y, or Z" doesn't mean 1 unit of them; it means ONE.
Or in this case, 3 individual Crimson Hunters.

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BetrayTheWorld
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PostSubject: Re: Crimson Death formation and Death fro the skies   Fri Jul 15 2016, 18:41

@Laughingcarp wrote:

Or in this case, 3 individual Crimson Hunters.

Which happens to be 3 units of Crimson hunters, since they only come in units of 1. Or did DFTS make them come in larger units and I missed that part?
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PostSubject: Re: Crimson Death formation and Death fro the skies   Mon Jul 18 2016, 15:00

It was considered on big (about 130 players) team tournament (ETC style), that any formation from any codex can be a wing.
Wing doesn't have to be one unit, like a squadron. It consists of several separate planes, which can form a pattern. That's it.

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