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 Court of the Archon as a high end assault unit

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BetrayTheWorld
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PostSubject: Re: Court of the Archon as a high end assault unit   Fri Jul 15 2016, 22:14

@Thor665 wrote:
I almost hate to agree with Betray, because he is abrasive, but he is hitting a very valid point.

I think insensitive would probably be a more accurate descriptor, but I digress...

I don't think someone's personality should factor into whether or not you agree with their logic, though it certainly does for some people, I agree. I see people jump enthusiastically on opportunities to attempt to prove me wrong, and ride that horse far beyond defeat, I suspect, for JUST that reason. Wink


P.S. I AM rather coldly logical, and a part of that is certainly my personality, but another large part of that is that I try to ensure everyone who posts a question on the forums gets an answer, so I may have 20+ posts to go through and answer. And those of you familiar with me will know that short posts are NOT my forte'. That doesn't leave a lot of time for niceties or nonsense if I still want to have a social life. Thanks for understanding, and suck it up, buttercup. Razz

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Demantiae
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PostSubject: Re: Court of the Archon as a high end assault unit   Sat Jul 16 2016, 16:54

It looks like the two units will serve 2 different purposes. Court seems more useful for an alpha or as a sweeping reserve unit. Being able to leverage more damage quickly is useful for both tactics. Grots on the other hand are more of a sustained threat, a fleet-in-being that is dangerous by its existence. The court could come in fast and delver more damage then melt away, leaving other units to take objectives. Or the Grots can do the distraction job by being a pain in the butt allowing other bits to capture. Question is what are their costs comparatively? If two units can perform the same role then I think the cheapest should always be your first pick.

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The Strange Dark One
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PostSubject: Re: Court of the Archon as a high end assault unit   Mon Jul 18 2016, 18:59

I wonder, did anybody ever do the Mathhammer on Ssylth + Succubus?

I imagine it being a somewhat reliable tin opener, with good durability and at a (comparatively) lightweight price. If Sslyth can take their armor save, they are actually as efficient as tanking duty as grots if you compare them on a per point basis. And 4 S5 attacks on the charge aren't that shabby either.

Leadership is not an issue and you still have fleet when charging. And since Sslyth are not bulky, you can get another Venom.

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Kantalla
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PostSubject: Re: Court of the Archon as a high end assault unit   Mon Jul 18 2016, 21:07

I'm planning a rejig of the calculations behind this based on some of the feedback. I can add in Sslyth + Succubus if that is of interest. I suspect it will score poorly, except against Terminators.

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BetrayTheWorld
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PostSubject: Re: Court of the Archon as a high end assault unit   Mon Jul 18 2016, 21:55

@Kantalla wrote:
I suspect it will score poorly, except against Terminators.

Yeah, a succubus actually pulls down the unit in every category except TEQ, but brings some benefits that are difficult to calculate, like being able to challenge. The succubus' combined numbers are actually really easy to calculate, once you calculate the succubus herself. You just use this formula: (X + (Y * Z)) ÷ (X + Z), where X is the succubus' result, Y is the result of the models you're adding her to, and Z is the number of models in the unit she'd be in.

For instance, if you wanted to add a charging succubus to a unit of 4 Sslyth and 4 Lhameans(you wouldn't WANT to do this, but just for example's sake), you'd take the result of a succubus charging TEQ(1.65), add it to the original result of the court against TEQ times the number of court models (8*0.99=7.92 +1.65 = 9.57), and divide by the number of models in said unit afterwards, which would be 9 with the succubus (9.57 ÷ 9 = 1.063).

Hmm, using this method, I double-checked the difference between grots with and without succubus and came to a slightly different answer than you, Kantalla. Using this formula seems to put grots with succubus at 1.02 instead of 0.99. Not a huge difference, to be sure. Probably just a difference in how many decimal points one of us counted out in our math or something somewhere. Same sorts of small differences can occur when using fractions instead of decimals, so that might be it too.

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Jimsolo
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PostSubject: Re: Court of the Archon as a high end assault unit   Mon Jul 18 2016, 22:58

@The Strange Dark One wrote:
I wonder, did anybody ever do the Mathhammer on Ssylth + Succubus?

I imagine it being a somewhat reliable tin opener, with good durability and at a (comparatively) lightweight price. If Sslyth can take their armor save, they are actually as efficient as tanking duty as grots if you compare them on a per point basis. And 4 S5 attacks on the charge aren't that shabby either.

Leadership is not an issue and you still have fleet when charging. And since Sslyth are not bulky, you can get another Venom.

The relative rarity of them getting their save is a pretty important factor.
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