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 Newbie escalation Campaign 500p and what next ...

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Jampel
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PostSubject: Newbie escalation Campaign 500p and what next ...   Mon Jul 04 2016, 09:26

Hello good folks.

My FLGS will be running a start playign 40k league soon with discounts on start collecting boxes and that made me buy into Dark Eldar. The ruleset will be pretty much bare bones 40k, no magic, no allies, no stupid sh*** just normal CAD's etc. We will be starting with more or less just start collecting boxes and slowly upgrading the forces during the campaign finishing around 500p mark.

So far i got 2 start collecting DE boxes, a Venom and a box of Wytches to build from and for the finall 500p tough about something like:

Archon (Blaster)(Venom, Splinter Cannon)

5x Kabalite Warriors (Raider, Dark Lance, Night Shield)
5x Kabalite Warriors (Raider, Dark Lance, Night Shield)

6x Reaver (Arena Champion, 2x Heat Lance)

Now i need some advice as to is this a playable list and if not what would you change? Also where to go next expanding to 1k? I still have unused Wytches and more kabalites that didn't fit into this list and would love to include as much stuff i currently have as possible. Another thing is i would love if it was possible to include Incubis (i love the models) in the 1k list and was thinking about runnign Scourges with Heat Lances dropping with a Blaster Archon with webway portal as main anti tank for 1k.

Any and all thoughs and suggestions are more than welcome Very Happy
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BetrayTheWorld
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PostSubject: Re: Newbie escalation Campaign 500p and what next ...   Mon Jul 04 2016, 16:56

Welcome to The Dark City!

There is a bit more information we need in order to best help you. First, more details on the rules you'll be using. Are you allowed to use the formations included with each start collecting box? If so, what other formations are you allowed to use? Is there a limit on number of detachments/cads?

Then, you should list out your entire current list in a readable format that lists general points for groups of models, like this:

Archon w/ Blaster in a dual cannon venom 140
2x 5 Kabalite warriors in dual cannon venoms 210
1x Ravager w/ 3 Dark Lances 125

Then I'm sure myself and others will be more than happy to assist and comment further! Very Happy

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Jampel
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PostSubject: Re: Newbie escalation Campaign 500p and what next ...   Mon Jul 04 2016, 17:30

Like i wrote in opening post it's supposed to be pure, fun and simple 40k, so no formations and nothing that currently makes 40k and unplayable horrible thing that it is in competitive meta. The campaign is supposed to be fun so it's cutting away eerthing that community feels is gone really bad, so no allies, no formations, no stupid crap like d weapons and grav centurion death stars etc.

The league is starting with just the start collecting contents and will have sides of players fighting on a map where hexes give more points for army building and will esalate to standard CAD around 500p at the end.

I suppose the list i posted was clear but if you want it rephrased here you go:

(496/500)

Archon w/ Blaster in a dual cannon venom 140
2x 5 Kabalite Warriors in Raiders with Dark lances and Night Shields 230
6 Reavers w/ 2 Heat lances and arena champion 126

Again the rest of the OP stands eg: i love the incubi models and am thinking about a squad of scourges with 4 heat lances and archon with blaster and webway portal as dedicated anti tank in the future. Basically i'm asking if the general idea behind my list has any sense and where to go next to 750p and 1000p in the future considering i don;t want to build any cookie cutter porn builds just something fun to field and something that can win now and then.
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BetrayTheWorld
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PostSubject: Re: Newbie escalation Campaign 500p and what next ...   Mon Jul 04 2016, 18:23

Jampel wrote:
Like i wrote in opening post it's supposed to be pure, fun and simple 40k, so no formations and nothing that currently makes 40k and unplayable horrible thing that it is in competitive meta. The campaign is supposed to be fun so it's cutting away eerthing that community feels is gone really bad, so no allies, no formations, no stupid crap like d weapons and grav centurion death stars etc.

Ok, one of the miscommunications is when you say things about "the community" not liking particular things, like formations, allies, etc. You must be talking about your local community, because in the admittedly small number of large polls conducted regarding the addition of allies/formations/psychic phase, the clear majority likes these things.

So when you say "no stupid crap, etc", I have no idea what your little corner of the world considers "stupid crap", because it doesn't necessarily match up with me, or everyone else's opinion. Wink


Jampel wrote:
Archon w/ Blaster in a dual cannon venom 140
2x 5 Kabalite Warriors in Raiders with Dark lances and Night Shields 230
6 Reavers w/ 2 Heat lances and arena champion 126

Again the rest of the OP stands eg: i love the incubi models and am thinking about a squad of scourges with 4 heat lances and archon with blaster and webway portal as dedicated anti tank in the future. Basically i'm asking if the general idea behind my list has any sense and where to go next to 750p and 1000p in the future considering i don;t want to build any cookie cutter porn builds just something fun to field and something that can win now and then.

Without some very niche use for an Archon, he's sort of a waste of points, unfortunately. Though, with these rules I don't know if you have a choice NOT to take him. As discussed elsewhere on this forum, there ARE uses for the "start collecting" sets, but mostly only if you're using the formation that comes with them. If you can't use that formation, the Archon becomes an expensive tax whose points could be better used elsewhere. With that in mind, the rules of this campaign don't favor you if you're only allowed to use models from the start collecting set. That set is made up of 50% models that aren't really good in the current meta(Archon + Raider) due in part to the recent FAQs, and excludes probably our best possible model for the cost: The Venom.

You said it's starting out with only models from the start collecting set. How soon after starting are you allowed to take things like venoms, ravagers, scourges, etc?

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PostSubject: Re: Newbie escalation Campaign 500p and what next ...   Tue Jul 05 2016, 07:39

BetrayTheWorld wrote:
Jampel wrote:
Like i wrote in opening post it's supposed to be pure, fun and simple 40k, so no formations and nothing that currently makes 40k and unplayable horrible thing that it is in competitive meta. The campaign is supposed to be fun so it's cutting away eerthing that community feels is gone really bad, so no allies, no formations, no stupid crap like d weapons and grav centurion death stars etc.

Ok, one of the miscommunications is when you say things about "the community" not liking particular things, like formations, allies, etc. You must be talking about your local community, because in the admittedly small number of large polls conducted regarding the addition of allies/formations/psychic phase, the clear majority likes these things.

So when you say "no stupid crap, etc", I have no idea what your little corner of the world considers "stupid crap", because it doesn't necessarily match up with me, or everyone else's opinion. Wink

Thing is we had a bunch of ultra competitive players including some from ITC National Team that butchered the local meta with their stupid porn lists to the point that kinda everyone stopped playing. On top of that people around here think that a lot of GW ideas are/were simply broken like centurion deathstars or invisible knights to name a few. That's were the idea behind this campaign comes from, it's supposed to be more of a beerhammer variety than competitive and all those restrictions got a huge "go for it" from my locals.

BetrayTheWorld wrote:
Without some very niche use for an Archon, he's sort of a waste of points, unfortunately. Though, with these rules I don't know if you have a choice NOT to take him. As discussed elsewhere on this forum, there ARE uses for the "start collecting" sets, but mostly only if you're using the formation that comes with them. If you can't use that formation, the Archon becomes an expensive tax whose points could be better used elsewhere. With that in mind, the rules of this campaign don't favor you if you're only allowed to use models from the start collecting set. That set is made up of 50% models that aren't really good in the current meta(Archon + Raider) due in part to the recent FAQs, and excludes probably our best possible model for the cost: The Venom.

You said it's starting out with only models from the start collecting set. How soon after starting are you allowed to take things like venoms, ravagers, scourges, etc?

From reading this forum i'm aware that a lhamean in a venom would be far better setup for low point hq but the campaign rules while still unfinished so far say that everything from start collecting must hit the table and for first couple weeks we're not allowed to take anything that isn;t multiples of units from start collecting boxes. As for the FAQ it's just a draft and nothing official so we don;t really care about it currently, when it gets official we'll see.

Thus once again we arrive to the same question where to go next from that 500p list expanding it into 750p and 1k, and is the idea behind webway portal archon with heat lance scourges a viable idea as an anti tank? Keep in mind tho that i'd love for it to be a minimal investment meaning everything i got so far i'd love to keep on the table if at all viable.
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PostSubject: Re: Newbie escalation Campaign 500p and what next ...   Tue Jul 05 2016, 20:39

You mean heat lance reavers, right? Since scourges don't come in the set? Are you allowed to put your archon in a venom like you have him since no venoms come with the start collecting set?

Assuming both answers above are yes, then, yeah, I'd say that your best bet is to take a minimum number of troops and archon, then max out the rest of your points on reavers with heat lances and caltrops. Something like this:

Archon w/Blaster in dual cannon venom 140
2x 5 Warriors in Dark Lance Raiders 200
3 Reavers w/ Cluster Caltrops & Heat Lance 73
3 Reavers w/ Arena Champ, Cluster Caltrops & Heat Lance 83
TOTAL: 496

Then, when you advance to 750 and 1k, I'd just put more reavers and troops in the list, with a preference for more reavers.

750:
Archon w/Blaster & Haywire Grenades in dual cannon venom 145
2x 5 Warriors in Dark Lance Raiders 200
5 Kabalite Warriors 40
2x 6 Reavers w/ 2 Cluster Caltrops & 2 Heat Lances 292
3 Reavers w/ Arena Champion, Cluster Caltrops & Heat Lance 73
TOTAL: 750

1k:
Archon w/Blaster & Agoniser in dual cannon venom 165
3x 5 Warriors in Dark Lance Raiders 300
1x 5 Warriors in Dissie Raider 95
3x 6 Reavers w/ 2 Cluster Caltrops & 2 Heat Lances 438
TOTAL: 998

I still don't see how a coherent set of rules will both ONLY allow models from the start collecting sets AND allow your archon to take a venom while dissallowing your troops to take venoms. It just doesn't make sense. But assuming that to be the case, despite defying all logic, the above is how I'd react to it, were I seriously wanting to play in such a tournament, which I wouldn't.

Either way, good luck with whatever you decide, and let us know how it goes! Very Happy

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