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 Wych themed corsair list

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hekatrixxy
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PostSubject: Wych themed corsair list   Thu Jun 30 2016, 07:24

See this post for a bit of background for the army and the concept.

The tl;dr version is an exiled succubus and her remaining followers teaming up with young rich corsair baron.

The list is 1850 points bang on. Just a Corsair Fleet Raiding Company, not DE + Corsairs allies. I'm trying to stay on theme and not go over the top with things like scat bikes and hornet spam.

[Command Crew]

Succubus (counts as Prince) - 135pts
 Cloud Dancer Jetbike
 Seeker of forbidden pleasures
 Shadow Field
 Void Sabre

[Primary Coterie - Hate Bringers]

Syren (counts as Baron) - 105pts
 Cloud Dancer Jetbike
 Corsair Combat Drugs
 Shadow Field
 Void Sabre

3 x Bloodbrides (counts as Cloud Dancer Felarchs) - 150pts
 Cloud Dancer Jetbikes
 Corsair Combat Drugs
 Splinter Cannons
 Venom Blades

3 x Wyches (counts as Cloud Dancers) - 75pts
 Cloud Dancer Jetbikes
 Splinter Cannons

3 x Wyches (counts as Cloud Dancers) - 75pts
 Cloud Dancer Jetbikes
 Splinter Cannons

10 x Wyches (counts as Malevolent Band) - 235pts
 Corsair Jet Packs
 Corsair Combat Drugs
 8 x Malevolent w/ CCW and Pistols
 2 x Malevolent w/ Venom Blade and Pistols
 
[Optional Coterie - Sky Burners]

Corsair Baron - 70pts
 Cloud Dancer Jetbike
 Shadow Field

3 x Cloud Dancers - 90pts
 Scatter Lasers

3 x Hornets - 255pts
 Pulse Lasers
 Corsair Void Burners

2 x Nightwings - 250pts

2 x Warp Hunters - 410pts
 Corsair Void Burners
 Kinetic Shrouds
 Shuriken Cannons
 
 


So the Succubus goes with the Syren and the Bloodbrides to form a fast close combat unit that can soften targets up with their splinter cannons.

The splinter cannon jetbikes provide support against high toughness targets putting out 18 poison shots each.

The malevolents are there as a fun experiment. I don't expect them to win me games, but they are fast and their special rules combined with drugs should make them decent in the assault.

The baron goes with the scatter laser jetbike squad. He tanks wounds for them with his shadow field while they do what scatter lasers do.

The hornets, nightwings and warp hunters should be self explanatory.


I'm curious to see what people think of the list if there are any tweaks to be made, but I'm not trying to build the most OP army possible. I want the army to be fast and the wyches to feel like they are hate filled and drug crazed, poisoning everything they can get their hands on.

I have some ideas around modelling and a paint scheme which I will post in another thread. The idea for the paint scheme would be dark primary colours with bright highlights for the wych half of the army and then the inverse of the colours for the corsair half.
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hydranixx
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PostSubject: Re: Wych themed corsair list   Thu Jun 30 2016, 23:25

I like it.

There's a lot of drugged people on Jetbikes, which is awesome. Seems like a great way to thematically play 'Wych cult' Cloud Dancers. Combat drugs seem like a worthwhile enhancement for them - roll for toughness and suddenly you're staring down T5 Jetbikes and T4 Malevolents, which makes their FNP & 2W even more deadly. The strength boosts would be mitigated with the amount of venom blades you're packing, though the Succubus' Void Sabre would turn obscene, with base S6 AP3 rending attacks. Again, it's awesome.

The Malevolents are an interesting pick. Some of our players here on the forum quite like keeping their squad size relatively small and giving them only Jetpacks & Meltabombs, which turns them into an expendable, mobile and dangerous unit. But I confess that I do like your unit, too. I think their actually gameplay will change dramatically depending on what drug they roll, but they should play very cautiously if there's any walkers about.

You're right that the vehicles are self explanatory. Any list that includes any of those is bound to be in good shape, and you have multiple of all 3. Coupled with your Splinter Cannon support, I think they will provide you with plenty of long ranged support.

Let me know how the list goes, if you do get to play with it.

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hekatrixxy
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PostSubject: Re: Wych themed corsair list   Fri Jul 01 2016, 07:02

Thanks for the feedback hydranixx!

I am hoping the malevolents will end up being a really fun unit to play. As you say, the drug roll will change their gameplay dramatically which should be interesting.

I had considered trying to make a voidstorm band build instead to represent bloodbrides but they just felt far too fragile in comparison to the malevolents for the sake of +1 WS and the option to take more venom blades. A voidstorm band equivalent to my malevolent squad above would be only 10 points cheaper but would lose the extra wound, fearless, rage, furious charge and FNP which I would like to have for a close combat oriented unit.

It will take a while to get this army purchased, built and painted of course. I will aim to post battle reports on the forum when I do get to play with it.
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BetrayTheWorld
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PostSubject: Re: Wych themed corsair list   Fri Jul 01 2016, 16:11

@hydranixx wrote:

The Malevolents are an interesting pick. Some of our players here on the forum quite like keeping their squad size relatively small and giving them only Jetpacks & Meltabombs, which turns them into an expendable, mobile and dangerous unit. But I confess that I do like your unit, too.

Another use for Malevolents is as a docking station for corsair psykers. Because 5/6 of the corsair perils table is negated by being fearless, sticking psykers in a unit of malevolents allows you to cast the most dangerous of psychic powers while being all but impervious to perils of the warp. Daemon summoning for fun and profit. Wink

As for the actual list, all the counts-as started to make my head spin when trying to read it after 36 hours with no sleep, so I defer to Hydranixx opinion. He's usually pretty on point! Very Happy

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Amheir-ka
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PostSubject: Re: Wych themed corsair list   Fri Jul 01 2016, 17:04

What a fantastic idea! I'm going to need to get my hands on the corsair rules ASAP. Seeing positive feedback form these list vets on a wych related list has me overjoyed.
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BetrayTheWorld
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PostSubject: Re: Wych themed corsair list   Fri Jul 01 2016, 17:24

@Amheir-ka wrote:
What a fantastic idea! I'm going to need to get my hands on the corsair rules ASAP. Seeing positive feedback form these list vets on a wych related list has me overjoyed.

In the interests of full disclosure, I wouldn't expect him to be able to field such a list in most competitive environments. The models he's using as "counts as" aren't really close at all to the models they're representing. In a fun/fluffy game among friends that don't mind, though, it's a way to use wyches as something other than a shelf decoration.

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hekatrixxy
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PostSubject: Re: Wych themed corsair list   Fri Jul 01 2016, 21:57

I have no intention at this time of using this in tournaments. This is more of a fun themed list that should be fun to model and fun to play in more casual settings.

Great to hear that people are on board with the idea though!

As a quick run down of the "counts as" I'll quickly put the pertinent models:

Prince (Cloud Dancer) - Succubus on Jetbike
Baron (Cloud Dancer) - Syren on Jetbike
Cloud Dancer Felarchs - Jetbike Bloodbrides
Cloud Dancers - Jetbike Wyches (basically DE Reavers)
Malevolents - Jetpack Wyches

Basically I would be making heavy use of the DE Reaver, Wych and Succubus models to build this half of the army. Conversions would need to be done for the Jetbike characters of course. I am genuinely curious as to why these models wouldn't pass in a more competitive setting as they would be modelled as they are equipped?

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hydranixx
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PostSubject: Re: Wych themed corsair list   Sat Jul 02 2016, 00:36

Forgeworld Jetpacks for regular Guardians look pretty awesome. However they are decidedly clean cut, smooth and fit for contained armour pieces. Wych armour, which is exposed entirely on one side, seems like it might look a little odd with the Jetpacks attached. The Wyches also need to appear more crazed and drugged up, yes?

With that in mind, if I may ask, how do you intend to provide Jetpacks for the Malevolents, if they're based on Wyches? You could opt for Scourges torsos that normally fit the wings in for some kind of Jetpack instead, and then use regular Wych legs, heads and weapons to tie into their cult theme.

The Reaver idea is what I'm working with as well. Some minor conversion work yields pretty good results. Most of the work is just replacing the underslung weapon. Magnetising it is probably the best idea. I've opted for removing the central spike on the Jetbike itself, putting trophies along the front and adding Scourge helmets to the riders for some diversity. What ideas do you have so far?

As for the counts-as idea and how it would fit competitive scene; technically the Corsairs themselves don't even have actual infantry models. Using the Guardian model with the Corsair upgrade pack is still using a completely different product to make your unit, and is completely legal. So I see no reason why one could not choose to other model bases to build one's Corsairs.

I had considered using Kabalites, because I absolutely adore their armour, but they are also fairly static, and I opted for pretty aggressive, hopping/running, two handed pistol stances on my Reaver squads. This would work much, much better with Wych legs, now that I think of it retrospectively.

Bare in mind either way, the Jetpacks from Forgeworld don't fit with either of them initially and the conversion required for making them compatible is considerable if you're going for a sleek, clean look. If you find some means of incorporating your own Jetpack design, or a Jetpack from another model range onto Wyches, I'd love to see a picture to help understand it for my own nefarious purposes Twisted Evil

Listwise, again, I think it's pretty solid. However, one thing worth considering is that you're already paying for two Barons by using two coteries. Usually paying Baron tax means you want them either complete barebones and as cheap as possible, or use them to complement and buff a unit substantially to make it somewhat worth their cost.

To this end, I'd probably drop the Void Sabre ( & maybe Shadowfield) off the first Baron, and give him just a normal Venom Blade. That way he will want to fight the same enemies as the rest of his Felarches, and saves you some points.

As for the second Baron, I don't have access to the book at the moment, so forgive me if I got the Baron rules wrong; I'm not sure if he can be assigned to Malevolents:

The baron could drop the Jetbike & Shadowfield, buy drugs, a Jetpack, a Scattershield and go with the Malevolents. They should buy Void Enhanced Armour if they can*. This nets them rerolled saves against templates and blast weapons, which is really good when coupled with the squad- wide 5++ that the Scattershield gives. Suddenly you're shrugging off Heldrake Flamers and Battlecannons like they're nothing. This boosts their innate FNP & 2 wounds a piece even higher, because so the small arms fire they start to attract gets mitigated even further. Can you imagine what they'd be like if they roll for Toughness on their combat drug chart? They would literally not even care about Plasma Cannons.

* Again, I don't have the book on me right now; can Malevolents purchase VEA? If so, wow this is awesome. If not, sad face.

Also, definitely consider making the Baron a Void Dreamer instead, as @BetraytheWorld describes; they're really good with Malevolents giving them fearless, and give them so much additional support to help them do their thing. This is also a very logical choice if indeed the Baron cannot be attached to Malevolents.

One of their spells can literally give you infinite movement on a turn it is cast successfully, so a potential first turn charge by these maniacs is a real possibility, while other possible spells focus on helping their already mighty movement, or providing cover and reserves shenanigans.

Thematically, if you're inclined to have to 'justify' seemingly odd combinations such as a psyker with Wyches, perhaps the Void Dreamer could have been given an experimental drug, now twisted into a screaming, mad banshee that may or may not have spent too much time at the local Haemonculus lab. Shes's now unable to contain her psychic energy, and it wildly coalesces around her and into spells?

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hekatrixxy
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PostSubject: Re: Wych themed corsair list   Sat Jul 02 2016, 09:15

Modelling

For the cloud dancers my intention had been to use DE reaver models almost as is and magnetise an underslung splinter cannon to them.

For the felarch cloud dancers, again DE reavers but use wych parts to give them their close combat weapons. If I really feel like spending the cash, then buying lhamaeans to get the venom blades, but this seems like a waste.

For the malevolents, I had original hoped to put the corsair jetpacks straight onto the wych models. You’ve given me some pause for thought in this regard. I’m personally not a fan of the scourge wings, but as you say their torsos might provide a better anchor point for whatever jetpack bits I end up using.

My idea for the prince and wych cult baron was to use harlequin skyweavers as the base. The driver could be made up using some wych parts, and the pillion rider could then be modelled standing up so parts from the succubus and wych box could be used to give them suitably aggressive close combat wych looks. Some spare spiky parts from the DE reaver kits could help make the bikes themselves look a bit more aggressive.


List suggestions

To clarify rules for you the "Tyrant" rule for barons says (I’m paraphrasing slightly here as I’m not sure what the rules here are on posting rules verbatim):

Must be assigned to Troops or Elites from the corsairs list at the start of the game. Cannot leave the unit during play. Must be assigned to unit from same coterie if using raiding fleet structure. Max one baron assigned to any given unit.

So, the first baron can either be a cloud dancer baron and go with the cloud dancer felarchs OR don a jetpack and go with the malevolents. I may as well model both up and try them both out and see how it works out. I will play with the list a bit and see if dropping the shadowfield and void sabre frees up enough points to do something decent elsewhere in the list.

As for the second baron he is in a different coterie so no way he can join the wych coterie. He could easily be replaced with a void dreamer thematically as he isn’t an ex wych or DE. His coterie has allied with the former wyches, but is a normal group of non craftworld eldar, so they would have no problems using psychic powers.

As a void dreamer is a normal independent character so he can join the malevolents from the other coterie just fine, BUT they would be allies of convenience so I’m not sure how they would actually interact with regards to conferring fearless to him etc. I guess this means that it’s not really viable for the second baron to be switched out for a void dreamer, but the first baron could be.

The "scattershield" is actually called a "shimmershield", just to clarify for anyone else who reads this post in the future.

What is a good build for void dreamers? Obviously he would need a jetpack in this particular instance. Upgrade to ML2? Shimmershield as discussed. Any CCWs/grenades/pistols?

Malevolents can only purchase heavy mesh armour which is redundant as they already have jetpacks conferring the 4+ armour save.

The void storm band (which was already discussed as being inferior to the malevolents) can take the voidplate harness upgrade, but the rules aren’t quite what you think:

3+ armour save, lose fleet, re-roll difficult & dangerous terrain rolls. Void Hardened Armour is only applied aswell in Zone Mortalis games, not regular 40k.

To some up I will play around with the first baron potentially being a bit cheaper and potentially going with the malevolents or turning him into a void dreamer to go with them instead. The second baron will have to remain as is, but could be slightly cheaper with a shimmershield only. I will post an updated list once I have one.

Thanks for the all the feedback so far!


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hekatrixxy
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PostSubject: Re: Wych themed corsair list   Sat Jul 02 2016, 12:28

Forgot to mention I intend to use razorwing models for the nightwings. I'll pick up some shuriken cannons and bright lances on ebay and then magnetise so I can use as razorwings in DE army lists and nightwings in corsair army lists. Not to mention the razorwing is 1/3rd the price of the nightwing!

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BetrayTheWorld
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PostSubject: Re: Wych themed corsair list   Sat Jul 02 2016, 14:47

@hekatrixxy wrote:

Conversions would need to be done for the Jetbike characters of course. I am genuinely curious as to why these models wouldn't pass in a more competitive setting as they would be modelled as they are equipped?

Basically, this was a miscommunication. I thought you were suggesting proxying them as-is with no conversion work done. If you're planning on converting an entire corsair army to be WYSIWYG just using wyches as the base models for the conversion work, plenty of tournaments will allow it, I'm sure.

And I'd love to see pics! So if you do this, you should start a project log here when you start converting! Very Happy

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PostSubject: Re: Wych themed corsair list   Sat Jul 02 2016, 16:12

I agree with betray, want to see this project log pretty bad.

I highly recommend the void dreamer. He could be in the corsair colors but still in the "Wyche" detachment to avoid the allies thing and the fluff heresy.

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PostSubject: Re: Wych themed corsair list   Sat Jul 02 2016, 21:38

per FW but I don't have the link on hand: VHA provides rerolls against template and blast weapons AND additional rules in games of Zone Mortalis. Emphasis mine.
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hydranixx
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PostSubject: Re: Wych themed corsair list   Sun Jul 03 2016, 06:15

@hekatrixxy wrote:
What is a good build for void dreamers? Obviously he would need a jetpack in this particular instance. Upgrade to ML2? Shimmershield as discussed. Any CCWs/grenades/pistols?

I would include him mainly for his spells, so I'd go with the Jetpack, ML2, shimmershield and keep the witch staff to make sure his price tag doesn't skyrocket.

@hekatrixxy wrote:
Malevolents can only purchase heavy mesh armour which is redundant as they already have jetpacks conferring the 4+ armour save.

The void storm band (which was already discussed as being inferior to the malevolents) can take the voidplate harness upgrade, but the rules aren’t quite what you think:

3+ armour save, lose fleet, re-roll difficult & dangerous terrain rolls. Void Hardened Armour is only applied aswell in Zone Mortalis games, not regular 40k.

Yes, I just read so, sadly Malevolents have no access to Void Hardened Armour, which is the one that's actually good, not Voidplate Harness. Void Hardened Armour is dope because it's bought on a squad by squad basis, so it ends up as only 1 pts a model when you're 10 models strong. But yeah, still buy it for your Reaver Squads if you ever get lists with them. Bonus points for buying 20 of them in a unit so it's only 0.5 pts for VHA per model xD

@amorrowlyday wrote:
per FW but I don't have the link on hand: VHA provides rerolls against template and blast weapons AND additional rules in games of Zone Mortalis. Emphasis mine.


Yeah, Void Hardened Armour even in regular 40K is a very good, under utilised option, and this codex is one of the only ones that provides it. It's for such a bargain price per model too.

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hekatrixxy
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PostSubject: Re: Wych themed corsair list   Sun Jul 03 2016, 07:16

@BetrayTheWorld wrote:
Basically, this was a miscommunication. I thought you were suggesting proxying them as-is with no conversion work done. If you're planning on converting an entire corsair army to be WYSIWYG just using wyches as the base models for the conversion work, plenty of tournaments will allow it, I'm sure.

My apologies, when I had originally said "counts as" I meant from a fluff point of view rather than a modelling point of view. I very much intend for this army to be WYSIWYG.
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PostSubject: Re: Wych themed corsair list   Sun Jul 03 2016, 08:01

Here is an alternative list incorporating a void dreamer into the hate bringer coterie (wyches) instead of a baron. I have only listed the units that have changed from the original list. Still comes out to 1850 total. Changed bits are italicised:

[Primary Coterie - Hate Bringers]

Void Dreamer - 90pts
Cloud Jet Pack
ML2
Shimmershield


9 x Wyches (counts as Malevolent Band) - 215pts
Corsair Jet Packs
Corsair Combat Drugs
7 x Malevolent w/ CCW and Pistols
2 x Malevolent w/ Venom Blade and Pistols

[Optional Coterie - Sky Burners]

Corsair Baron - 60pts
Cloud Dancer Jetbike
Shimmershield

3 x Hornets - 300pts
Pulse Lasers
Corsair Void Burners
Corsair Kinetic Shrouds


I'm thinking that I will build 3 different HQ alternatives to go with the hatebringers coterie: a cloud dancer baron as I originally had, a jetpack void dreamer as listed here and a jetpack baron. I can play test all of them and discover their strengths and weaknesses vs various opponents.

I found another thread on warseer yesterday that said that the guardian torso backs can mix with the wych torso fronts with a bit of work, allowing the corsair jetpacks to be applied with minimum fuss:

Quote :
Now, the good news - I've got two squads where I mixed Wych Fronts and Guardian backs. It takes a little bit of putty on the shoulderpads, but they actually do fit back to front and front to back just fine, outside the shoulderpads. These of course leave you with a half-indent half-flat section for the arms, but you can work with that either if you want to use Guardian arms by drilling the socket out to fit them, or with Kabalite/Wych/Scourge arms just glued on right fine.
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