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Causalis
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PostSubject: Starting with Dark Eldar   Mon Jun 27 2016, 21:33

Hello guys,

so after the Start Collecting Box for the evil Space Elves dropped I couldn't resist any longer. I got the Codex and I have watched a lot of battle reports and browsed the web to get some insight into each unit.

My first army is the Adeptus Mechanicus (Skitarii + Cult Mechanicus) so I know Eldar and Dark Eldar only from the opposing side of the table (and let me tell you, the Onager Dunecrawler with an Iccarus Array is the worst weapon any of those wet paper transports can face).

But let's stop beating around the bushes:

If you could lend me some of your insights into the army that would be great! For example:

1. What are the general builds for an Archon/Haemy/Succubus?

2. Is it possible to make Wyches/Hellions work? All I read on the net is whining about how bad they are. But I love me some close combat and I am fairly confident that I can get use out of these units. I even got Electro Priests to work for my Ad Mech which are considered to be horribly overpriced and underpowered.

3. How to use Wracks? Seriously, I have no idea if they are supposed to be a shooty or close combat unit and what loadout is commonly used on them.

4. I am considering to get the Harlequins' Shadowseer, Death Jester and Solitair. Are they solid ally choices or situational at best?

5. Are Mandrakes good for anything else than infiltrating onto an objective and holding it, sitting in cover?

6. Brief overview - what are our best - good - worst units.


I appreciate all feedback! Smile
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BetrayTheWorld
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PostSubject: Re: Starting with Dark Eldar   Mon Jun 27 2016, 22:03

Welcome to the Dark City! I'm going to answer these questions succinctly, and from the perspective of a competitive player. Answers may vary if you're talking about non-competitive play.

@Causalis wrote:

1. What are the general builds for an Archon/Haemy/Succubus?

Archons generally aren't taken - they're viewed as a tax. If you HAVE to take one for a particular formation, keep him as cheap as possible to fulfill the role you want him to fulfill. He's a mediocre melee combatant in the best of cases, so keep that in mind when you're dumping points into him.

Haemonculi are also not voluntarily taken, but rather taken as a requirement for certain formations. When they're taken, it's typically naked to keep them cheap, with a webway portal for shenanigans, or with a scissorhand and vexators mask to be semi-capable in close combat.

Succubus normally take an archite glaive in every case. Depending on situation, you might add the armour of misery to give the -2 leadership aura around her.

Rather than taking any of these, people often opt to take a single 10 point Lhamean, who cheaply fulfills your HQ requirement.

@Causalis wrote:
2. Is it possible to make Wyches/Hellions work? All I read on the net is whining about how bad they are. But I love me some close combat and I am fairly confident that I can get use out of these units. I even got Electro Priests to work for my Ad Mech which are considered to be horribly overpriced and underpowered.

No, wyches are pretty terrible. It's a shame, because they're my favorite models out of the DE line. Wych cults are what drew me in to the faction. I have 60 of them that I used to run in 12 venoms with our last codex.

@Causalis wrote:
3. How to use Wracks? Seriously, I have no idea if they are supposed to be a shooty or close combat unit and what loadout is commonly used on them.

Wracks are also bad. There is something else that does every job wracks do better than wracks. If wracks had a way to be made objective secured troops, like they were last edition, they'd be fine, but they don't, so they're competing with the likes of grotesques, incubi, medusae, reavers, ravagers, venoms, and scourges, all of which are better than wracks at every job they're suited for.

@Causalis wrote:
4. I am considering to get the Harlequins' Shadowseer, Death Jester and Solitair. Are they solid ally choices or situational at best?

They can absolutely be solid ally choices. You're somewhat limited by the very restrictive detachments you can take them in, but they can certainly still be effective.

@Causalis wrote:
5. Brief overview - what are our best - good - worst units.

This is my own subjective opinion, and others may disagree:

BEST: Grotesques, Venoms, Talos, Reavers, Court of the Archon, Succubus

GOOD:  Kabalite Warriors, Scourges, Ravagers, Beastmasters, Razorwing Jetfighters, Haemonculus, Raiders, Cronos, Lelith Hesperax(very situational), Urien Rakarth(Very Situational)

WORST: Archons, Wyches, Wracks, Mandrakes, Hellions, Voidraven Bomber, Incubi, Drazhar

Disclaimer: My "Worst" section is basically options that I'd just almost never run in the current ruleset. Other people, with priorities other than being competitive and winning, such as playing a pure DE force, may disagree with me on things like Incubi.


I hope that helps! Welcome again to TDC, and I look forward to seeing list contributions from you once you gather your bearings! Very Happy

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Causalis
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PostSubject: Re: Starting with Dark Eldar   Mon Jun 27 2016, 22:19

Thank you very much for those insights! Smile

Quote :
Rather than taking any of these, people often opt to take a single 10 point Lhamean, who cheaply fulfills your HQ requirement.

So we can indeed take the Court of the Archon as an HQ choice? Or is the Lhamean an HQ choice and I have just overlooked that?

Quote :
No, wyches are pretty terrible. It's a shame, because they're my favorite models out of the DE line. Wych cults are what drew me in to the faction. I have 60 of them that I used to run in 12 venoms with our last codex.

Aw, man. :/ I really like close combat as it somehow often surprises my opponent how much of an impact some CC units can have (since people often see CC as just a "playthingy" but nothing one would have to actually take into consideration).

Is there any hope for the Hellions at least?

Quote :
Wracks are also bad. There is something else that does every job wracks do better than wracks

Are they still bad when taken from the Coven supplement?

Quote :
You're somewhat limited by the very restrictive detachments you can take them in, but they can certainly still be effective.

Yeah, it sucks that those aren't HQ choices and that the Harlequins can't be taken in an allied detachment.

Quote :
BEST: Grotesques, Venoms, Talos, Reavers, Court of the Archon, Succubus

So the Succubus is actually a good HQ choice?

Quote :
Voidraven Bomber, Incubi, Drazhar

Could you elaborate these choices a bit? I can see why you wouldn't want to bring Incubi in a competitive environment but I am not a tournament player and even though my local meta can be quite cutthroat I would still bring Drazhar to slaughter Termis or the Bomber to annihilate blobs.

Quote :
I hope that helps! Welcome again to TDC, and I look forward to seeing list contributions from you once you gather your bearings! Very Happy

Thank you for the warm welcome! Smile I am generally a pretty active member and I often create a thread to post pictures/bat reps/updates about my army etc. You may look forward to that. :')
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BetrayTheWorld
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PostSubject: Re: Starting with Dark Eldar   Mon Jun 27 2016, 22:55

@Causalis wrote:

So we can indeed take the Court of the Archon as an HQ choice?

Yes

Quote :

Is there any hope for the Hellions at least?

No

Quote :
Quote :
Wracks are also bad. There is something else that does every job wracks do better than wracks
Are they still bad when taken from the Coven supplement?

Yes.

Quote :

So the Succubus is actually a good HQ choice?

Yes

Quote :
Quote :
Voidraven Bomber, Incubi, Drazhar

Could you elaborate these choices a bit? I can see why you wouldn't want to bring Incubi in a competitive environment but I am not a tournament player and even though my local meta can be quite cutthroat I would still bring Drazhar to slaughter Termis or the Bomber to annihilate blobs.

Voidraven bomber is way overpriced and doesn't come with any missiles. It used to come with missiles stock, and that justified the higher price than the jetfighter because it had the better lance weapon. But when they came out with the latest codex, they dropped the free missiles and kept the higher price the same. That's how I remember it anyhow. I am working from memory because I don't have my 5th ed code handy, so maybe I just made all that up in my head, haha. Either way, the biggest problem is the price tag.

Drazhar suffers from the same issue: Price Tag. They nerfed demiklaives from last codex to this codex, so that's not doing him any favors either. Aside from that, he's a decent CC character, but he has no invulnerable save, and is almost 200 points. For 20 points more than Drazhar, you can get a squad of 5 Eldar Wraithguard with D-scythes that instagib wraithknights and ignore cover. When the points you're spending are compared to things like that, I'm sure you see where the problem lies.

Incubi are assault-only troops with above average initiative that don't have assault grenades, meaning that most of the time that they assault, they'd be attacking at initiative 1. For T3 single-wound models with a 3+ armour save, this is a problem. They're 20 points each and have MEQ armour, but only S3/T3, no ranged weapon, and no grenades of any sort. Basically, they have no internal synergy. They REALLY need grenades, and have no way at all to get them. In the last book, they didn't have grenades, but if you put a phantasm grenade launcher on a character, he gave the unit assault grenades. Something like that, a rule that gave them assault grenades somehow, would move them up at least 1 category, maybe 2.

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PostSubject: Re: Starting with Dark Eldar   Tue Jun 28 2016, 08:39

@Causalis wrote:
Aw, man. :/ I really like close combat as it somehow often surprises my opponent how much of an impact some CC units can have (since people often see CC as just a "playthingy" but nothing one would have to actually take into consideration).

Mate, your in the right place. DE are great at CC. Take Grots, reavers and talos and knock yourself out! Very Happy


@BetrayTheWorld wrote:
In the last book, they didn't have grenades, but if you put a phantasm grenade launcher on a character, he gave the unit assault grenades. Something like that, a rule that gave them assault grenades somehow, would move them up at least 1 category, maybe 2.

Those were the glory days!
PGL also gave defensive grenades, it was pretty sweet. And huskblade was AP2 and archons could take combat drugs as well.

A tooled up archon with 5-6 Incubi in a raider was my pride and joy and the bane of my enemies! Sad
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Causalis
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PostSubject: Re: Starting with Dark Eldar   Tue Jun 28 2016, 23:56

Thanks for the input guys!

Alright so, I am currently assembling my Start Collecting Box and have already placed another order for:

1x Ravager
2x Venoms
1x Kabalite Warriors
1x Grots

Once all this is assembled and painted, what should I get next? More Venoms/Raiders I guess. Maybe Scourges or some Chronos/Talos?
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PostSubject: Re: Starting with Dark Eldar   Wed Jun 29 2016, 01:26

@Causalis wrote:

1x Ravager
2x Venoms
1x Kabalite Warriors
1x Grots

I hope 1 x Grots is a typo & your not sad when you realise you only get 1!
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PostSubject: Re: Starting with Dark Eldar   Wed Jun 29 2016, 05:50

You also want a talos and a box of AOS Vargheist/Crypt horrors/Crypt flayers, Kroxigor, Blight kings, etc to build your other 3 Grotesques out of.
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PostSubject: Re: Starting with Dark Eldar   Wed Jun 29 2016, 09:30

I would switch a couple of things around from BetraytheWorld but agree with most of what put.

I would put Incubi and Mandrakes in the middle tier instead of Lelith/Urien/Haemonculus.

Incubi can dish out an impressive amount of damage but they are much easier to kill, so are inferior to some of the other options. Usable if you love the models, but Grotesques are a better option.

Mandrakes are our most point efficient shooting unit against Guardsmen or similar statlines, and only a little behind Venoms against Marines or Termies. If in cover they should get a 2+ cover save, meaning ignore cover or assaults are needed to efficiently get rid of them. Not amazing, but still a reasonable option. Can't really do much Kabalite Warriors and Venoms can't do though.

Overall Dark Eldar are reasonable at anti-infantry, especially high toughness ones. Decent against heavy tanks, but lacking against AV10-12, and struggle against Gargantuan creatures.

If you like close combat Dark Eldar has some really good options - especially Grotesques in a Grotesquerie and Talos, then Court of the Archon, Succubus, Reavers, and Beastmasters as a second tier.

Back that up with sufficient anti-tank (Ravagers, Scourges and Trueborn), and some Warriors in Venoms and you can have a decent army.

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Causalis
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PostSubject: Re: Starting with Dark Eldar   Wed Jun 29 2016, 11:19

Quote :
hope 1 x Grots is a typo & your not sad when you realise you only get 1!

Sweet mother of Banshees, what the heck?! >_> Thanks for the heads up. I cancelled the order of the Grot and replaced it with a Talos. Why doesn't GW sell them in boxes of 3?! Argh. Okay, I'll look around eBay to see if I can get some there or I'll kitbash them from the Skaven Ratogres and the Deamon Kin Possessed.

I am also very surprised that I can't build a Ravager out of the Raider kit. To me they seem to be the exact same model with the only difference being that the Ravager has the two side cannons...

Quote :
Mandrakes are our most point efficient shooting unit against Guardsmen or similar statlines, and only a little behind Venoms against Marines or Termies

If I have the points to spare I'll probably include 3 of them and just infiltrate them onto an objective. That'll only cost me 36 points and will annoy my opponent so that he might waste shooting power to take them down.

Quote :
If you like close combat Dark Eldar has some really good options - especially Grotesques in a Grotesquerie and Talos

What is the typical loadout for the Talos? He is AP 2 thanks to being a MC so the Shred of the Chain-Weapon seems nice. His "tail-weapon-options" seem solid too. Since I'll play my first match against my buddy's Orks I'll probably go for the stinger pod. Yes, the Talos is only BS 3 but so are my Ad Mech's Kataphrons and oddly enough they roll direct hits like there is no tomorrow. :'D

Quote :
Back that up with sufficient anti-tank (Ravagers

How is the Ravager anti-tank? Aren't his weapons "only" S5 AP2 and not even lance?

One last thing:

Since most of our vehicles come with some models for the crew, is there a way to convert them so that I get some Kabalites/Wyches? If there is a thread here that deals with this topic, it would be nice if someone could link it. Smile
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PostSubject: Re: Starting with Dark Eldar   Wed Jun 29 2016, 12:08

@Causalis wrote:
I am also very surprised that I can't build a Ravager out of the Raider kit. To me they seem to be the exact same model with the only difference being that the Ravager has the two side cannons...

You can build a Raider out of the Ravager kit but not the other way round. Essentially the Ravager kit is the Raider kit plus the sprues to build the side cannons+crew and a few extras.

Quote :
How is the Ravager anti-tank? Aren't his weapons "only" S5 AP2 and not even lance?

You upgrade them to Dark Lances for 5 points/weapon. It's still pretty terrible AT but it's about the best we've got!

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PostSubject: Re: Starting with Dark Eldar   Thu Jun 30 2016, 00:11

@Causalis wrote:

What is the typical loadout for the Talos? He is AP 2 thanks to being a MC so the Shred of the Chain-Weapon seems nice.

If it's a single Talos, I'd probably only give him an ichor injector. It gives him fleshbane, so that he wounds even the biggest, nastiest things like wraithknights on a 2+ in CC, and gives him instant death on 6's to wound, in addition to his AP2.

If you run talos in a corpsthief claw formation, I'd personally run them with twin-linked haywire blasters, as 5 of them basically guarantees a dead tank each round that you choose to fire them.(You may not always want to).

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PostSubject: Re: Starting with Dark Eldar   Thu Jun 30 2016, 08:33

@Causalis wrote:
If I have the points to spare I'll probably include 3 of them and just infiltrate them onto an objective. That'll only cost me 36 points and will annoy my opponent so that he might waste shooting power to take them down.
That's a reasonable option. I'm still only suggesting they are OK (middle tier), and likely more Kabalite Warriors in Venoms are a better choice.

Quote :
Since most of our vehicles come with some models for the crew, is there a way to convert them so that I get some Kabalites/Wyches? If there is a thread here that deals with this topic, it would be nice if someone could link it. Smile
I'm about to do this for my Raider crew, will add some pictures and comments in my project log over the next couple of weeks.

For the Talos, it is reasonable without upgrades, and the melee upgrades depend on how likely you are to run into high toughness monsters.

The Chain-flails are a small upgrade:
Against T5 or less the Basic Talos wounds 5/6 vs 35/36 with Chain-flails (17% improvement)
Against T6: 2/3 vs 8/9 (+33%)
Against T7: 1/2 vs 3/4 (+50%)
Against T8: 1/3 vs 5/9 (+67%)

The Ichor Injector is better than the Chain-flails against T7 and T8, and instant death on 6 is handy against multi-wound models.

Chain-flails better against normal infantry, Ichor injectors better against very high toughness targets and multi-wound models.

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BetrayTheWorld
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PostSubject: Re: Starting with Dark Eldar   Fri Jul 01 2016, 16:02

[quote="Kantalla"]
@Causalis wrote:

Chain-flails better against normal infantry, Ichor injectors better against very high toughness targets and multi-wound models.

This is absolutely true. But to sum up the above post in very clear language:

The improvement chain-flails provides is a very small improvement against ONLY single-wound infantry, where Talos already excel, whereas ichor injectors make them better against literally everything else with a Toughness.

Essentially, chain-flails are almost never worth bothering.

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PostSubject: Re: Starting with Dark Eldar   Fri Jul 01 2016, 16:55

Gimme dem sweet info directly into my veins! Aw yisss~

Quote :
You upgrade them to Dark Lances for 5 points/weapon. It's still pretty terrible AT but it's about the best we've got!

Is that a "must do"? Because the idea of potentially blasting 9 TEQ in one round of shooting from the field is pretty awesome...

Quote :
If you run talos in a corpsthief claw formation

Let me just check the 'ol money bag... nope. No cash for the corpsethief claw formation here. T_T Maybe one day. Is that formation even worth its points? I mean yeah, we can all agree that 5 Talos are a massive assault-train. But they will overkill just about any unit in the game.

Quote :
For the Talos, it is reasonable without upgrades, and the melee upgrades depend on how likely you are to run into high toughness monsters.

Orks have none of those AFAIK. So I'll if I have the points to spare I'll make him a chain-wielding Biker-Talos! ...Now that I'm thinking about it, a Talos with a flaming Bandana and a Jeans/Skin-West with a Bikergang-Name on the back would look pretty dope. Maybe some Hellions stole one and decided to pimp it a bit? *fluff intensifies*

Another question guys:

I have been looking through the forum, trying to gather some info about the Succubus (wargear etc.) but most threads are either as ancient as an Haemonculus or just about three replies long.

So, could you recommend some builds for her? I am also a bit astonished that there isn't a "compiled knowledge thread" on here (yes, I've seen the video tutorials etc.). Over at bolterandchainsword we have an info thread for Ad Mech that is 16 pages long and growing. Would be nice to have something like that on here too. Just a thread where we share our experiences after a match, how the different units performed, what builds we tried etc.

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PostSubject: Re: Starting with Dark Eldar   Fri Jul 01 2016, 17:19

@Causalis wrote:

Quote :
You upgrade them to Dark Lances for 5 points/weapon. It's still pretty terrible AT but it's about the best we've got!

Is that a "must do"? Because the idea of potentially blasting 9 TEQ in one round of shooting from the field is pretty awesome...

Yeah, it's pretty much a must-do. Here's why:

1 - Against pretty much everything other than TEQ, venoms are more efficient at killing it than dissie ravagers, point for point.

2 - TEQ are rare and expensive models. They also aren't fielded a lot in the current meta. Which leads to 3.

3 - Because TEQ are rare and expensive, if your opponent took points away from their vehicles to field termies, you can probably afford to divert some dark lances towards them to kill them. S8 AP2 dark lances are fewer shots than dissies for sure, but they're still good at killing termies.

Basically, if you KNEW 100% that your opponent was going to field an army full of termies, dissies would be better. In every other case, having the lance ravagers is just going to make you prepared for a wider array of army types, while still being perfectly capable of dealing with terminators.

@Causalis wrote:
I have been looking through the forum, trying to gather some info about the Succubus (wargear etc.) So, could you recommend some builds for her?

Super easy: Take an archite glaive every time. That's it. That's the base build. With that build alone she's good. She only has a 4++ in combat, but because she has high initiative, weapon skill, and attacks at AP3/AP2, she will kill almost any character without an invuln save before they can hit her.

Situationally, you add armour of misery, webway portal and/or a haywire grenade depending on the role of the unit you're putting her in.

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PostSubject: Re: Starting with Dark Eldar   Fri Jul 01 2016, 17:54

@BetrayTheWorld I want to add something on the Dissies vs Dark Lance matter.

Termies are T4, which means our S8 lances will cause ID. ID means that DL will triumph on any "fancy" terminators with FNP or multi wounded ones (like GK Paladins).

And when facing AV10 Dissies are a bit better in glancing away HP than DL and on AV 11 they are only slighly worse.

It's not much, but it is something interesting to keep in mind.

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PostSubject: Re: Starting with Dark Eldar   Sat Jul 02 2016, 21:33

Guys, I need some advice (again). ^^"

Dark Eldar love themselves some Venoms/Raiders. If possible, should every unit be deployed in a Raider/Venom? And if so, how do you choose which units to stick in which vehicle?

What I've seen and read on the web so far:

-Venoms are often taken with 5 Blasterborn, an Archon + Court (2 Medusa, 2 Sslyth) or some Incubi (+Succubus)

-Raiders are taken as transports for 10 Kabalites + Splinter Cannon or are sometimes used to transport Grots

I find it hard to estimate which vehicle should have the higher priority. Ofc it always depends on the enemy but I mean in a TAC list. Given the chance, should I stick my Kabalites in the Raider, rather than in a Venom? If so, is the Venom more a "VIP" transport for elite units like Incubi/Blasterborn etc.?

Sorry for riddling you with questions. Every time I start a new army I get very excited and just want to know as much as possible. ^^"

Shifting from transports to a more narrow question, the Animus Vitae:

20 points to potentially benefit one's whole army is an alright investment if you ask me. From the first look however, this screams suicide mission. My instinct would be to give this to an Archon w/ WWP (since he has the best BS) and then deepstrike him next to the most vulnerable unit on the field and hope that he kills a dude.

But is that the best option? Or is the modus operandi "if you are already spending points on this guy, might as well go all out"? So for example sticking him into some Grots and/or giving him the Shadowfield. Or maybe pair him up with a Court of 2 Medusae and 2 Sslyth in a Venom so that this suicide squad may as well do some damage and have another use when the Animus fails to wound that Guardsmen.
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PostSubject: Re: Starting with Dark Eldar   Sat Jul 02 2016, 22:22

If they can take a venom give them a venom, if they can't due to squad size give them a raider. Wyches are probably better than warriors as base troop choice if your playing under the FAQ since either option should be a min squad in a venom.
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PostSubject: Re: Starting with Dark Eldar   Sun Jul 03 2016, 01:28

Venoms do tend to be the preferred transports in terms of efficiency, but it's going to depend on how and what you play.

If you are going to try to flood the table with minimum 5 man squads (which is one of the few remaining effective strategies), venoms are the key to that.  The weakness here is anti-tank weapons - a naked squad in a venom has no ability to hurt a vehicle.

That said - Blasterborn are almost literally putting all of your eggs in one basket, and most will recommend you set a single blaster in to each group of kabalites (if at all) rather than putting 4 on a single skimmer.

Raiders have a bit more flexibility but also comparative weaknesses.  They're larger so you have more to hide and no flickerfield, but this also grants more area to fire embarked weapons from and is compensated by a 3rd HP.  The only reall advantages comes from the ability to transport large squads (and grotesques) and the anti-tank weapons being baked into the raider (except now it's a 5 point upgrade).  The raider can also take advantage of vehicle upgrades like the splinter rack, shock prow, and torment launcher; that the venom practically or literally can't.

In general, the more independent anti-tank units you have (scourges, ravagers), the more venoms you should take.  The more specialized units (like large courts or grotesques) you have, the more raiders you're probably going to need.
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PostSubject: Re: Starting with Dark Eldar   Sun Jul 03 2016, 01:32

Arguably though technically inaccurate, it only costs 5 points more to give a venom soulfright grenades of one variety or another., but that assumes the occupants don't get out. Shock Prow is the big one for me TBH, every thing else feels really mediocre or overpriced.
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PostSubject: Re: Starting with Dark Eldar   Tue Jul 05 2016, 18:16

Thanks again for the feedback!

I am slowly amassing more units. Just shot a Succubus, Shadowseer, Death Jester and a Solitaire on eBay.

I hope that the Harlequin minis will prove as valuable allies. ^^

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hydranixx
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PostSubject: Re: Starting with Dark Eldar   Wed Jul 06 2016, 01:21

@Causalis wrote:
Let me just check the 'ol money bag... nope. No cash for the corpsethief claw formation here. T_T Maybe one day. Is that formation even worth its points? I mean yeah, we can all agree that 5 Talos are a massive assault-train. But they will overkill just about any unit in the game.

This is a recurring theme in Dark Eldar that you'll notice, sadly. A lot of our units come with only one model in the box or blister, like Venoms, Sslyth, Medusae, Grotesques & Talos, despite needing multiples of each of them to run efficiently. Each of these models legitimately are really good if you use them well; they just happen to leave you bankrupt if you buy the actual models themselves in the numbers you'll need. HINT: convert your own Sslyth/Medusae/Lhameans & Grotesques.

@Causalis wrote:
Dark Eldar love themselves some Venoms/Raiders. If possible, should every unit be deployed in a Raider/Venom? And if so, how do you choose which units to stick in which vehicle?

Yes, our army literally live and die in their transport abilities. Some of the most unique aspects of the Dark Eldar revolve around them:

- The ability to throw an affordable, 3W, T5, FnP monstrosity inside of fast, open topped transports, and then throw another 2-4 of his buddies in there with him too. Grotesques & Raiders are threatening to almost every unit type and durable against almost every unit type as well.  
- Darting around with a 65pt transport that can move 12", and shoot 12 poison shots at 36" range, while retaining a permanent 5++.
- Access to empty transports that double as semi-capable gunships, coupled with access to 6-Fast Attack choice detachment and our cheap HQ & Troop tax. This has enabled some players go to big events with a mix of 16-20 Venoms & Raiders, drowning their opponents in targets and speed.

@stilgar27 wrote:
Venoms do tend to be the preferred transports in terms of efficiency, but it's going to depend on how and what you play.

If you are going to try to flood the table with minimum 5 man squads (which is one of the few remaining effective strategies), venoms are the key to that.  The weakness here is anti-tank weapons - a naked squad in a venom has no ability to hurt a vehicle.

That said - Blasterborn are almost literally putting all of your eggs in one basket, and most will recommend you set a single blaster in to each group of kabalites (if at all) rather than putting 4 on a single skimmer.

I agree with stilgar here. Our infantry and our venoms are good choices, but lack anti tank. Rather than put mediocre anti tank weapons (blasters) into our infantry, I recommend taking dedicated tank hunters to complement the Venoms themselves - such as Scourges with Haywire Blasters, Ravagers, Reavers. They are all decent against even the toughest of armour values.

If you are do end up looking outside Dark Eldar for help in the anti tank field, some of the better options are Fire Dragons, Hornets & anything toting scatter lasers.

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Causalis
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PostSubject: Re: Starting with Dark Eldar   Wed Jul 06 2016, 18:46

Quote :
This is a recurring theme in Dark Eldar that you'll notice, sadly. A lot of our units come with only one model in the box or blister, like Venoms, Sslyth, Medusae, Grotesques & Talos, despite needing multiples of each of them to run efficiently. Each of these models legitimately are really good if you use them well; they just happen to leave you bankrupt if you buy the actual models themselves in the numbers you'll need. HINT: convert your own Sslyth/Medusae/Lhameans & Grotesques.

Another issue: The sprues and boxes are also piling up. And I am bad at throwing away the sprues since it gives me my material for conversions etc. :/

Quote :
Darting around with a 65pt transport

55 points*

Quote :
such as Scourges with Haywire Blasters, Ravagers, Reavers

But are Reavers good at killing tanks? It takes three to get a single Heat Lance.

Quote :
If you are do end up looking outside Dark Eldar for help in the anti tank field, some of the better options are Fire Dragons, Hornets & anything toting scatter lasers

Nah. I hate the aesthetics of most Craftworld Eldar. The Wraithknigt for example looks like a cheap action figure. Its torso is way too bulky, it lacks the menacing pose of e.g. an Imperial Knight and I HATE these round heads/helmets. Then there are the War Walkers which look like a Kinder Chocolate Egg with legs. There are some decent models like the Rangers etc. but I mostly despise the look of the Eldar.
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amorrowlyday
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PostSubject: Re: Starting with Dark Eldar   Wed Jul 06 2016, 19:02

Only going to address 2 things:

Eldar aesthetic: so convert them to suit the aesthetic your going for while keeping the weapons and scale correct! I have a war walker/wasp conversion that has been very well received in my community that I will show off here once I can start painting it ( been saving for an upcoming painting competition) guardians look great with wych heads or kabalite helmets. I plan on using the sylvaneth line to build more dark eldary wraith guard and Wraithlords

Reavers: it's not the heartlance. It's the cluster caltrop though now you'll need to make sure you actually hit the rear in order to ensure you strike that sweet sweet AV 10 since HoW will explicitly allocate against the facing it strikes once the FAQ is finalized.
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