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 1500 Start Collecting and grotesquerie

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amorrowlyday
Hekatrix
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PostSubject: Re: 1500 Start Collecting and grotesquerie   Sun Jun 26 2016, 23:45

Very True.

If obsec was a univerally purchasable upgrade for our troops how much cheaper would they be? I'm sure it's worth 5, or maybe even 6-7 pts out of the Kabalites cost per model, but like anything it's really only worth those points if your making use of what you paid for.

If I could save those points, say by not having to pay the 40-80pt tax to put obsec on 1-2 venoms, and spend them on something that has more utility towards the little things that will make the contested objective situation less likely I think that could definitely be a sound decision.
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stevethedestroyeofworlds
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PostSubject: Re: 1500 Start Collecting and grotesquerie   Mon Jun 27 2016, 00:28

@Deamon
Adding a succubus would mean taking some tax troops, which would limit the points you can spend on blasterborn and reavers. The archons can also tank any attacks that would ID the grots with their shadowfield, like vindicator shots. They aren't optimal, but throwing on a few upgrades makes them somewhat useful in their squads, on top of handing out PE to reavers and blaserborn

@BetrayTheWorld
While ObSec is incredibly powerful, I think the mobility and firepower/punchyness in the list is sufficient to knock most troops off objectives. Unless someone is taking a battle company, or is using stuff like plaguebearers I think the reavers and grots can grab objectives decently. Its not the best for objective games though, I will say that's for sure.
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BetrayTheWorld
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PostSubject: Re: 1500 Start Collecting and grotesquerie   Mon Jun 27 2016, 00:31

Quote :
If I could save those points, say by not having to pay the 40-80pt tax to put obsec on 1-2 venoms, and spend them on something that has more utility towards the little things that will make the contested objective situation less likely I think that could definitely be a sound decision.

Sort of, but you get obsec on both the warriors AND the transports when you get them as a pair. I actually use them in this way. I'll often drop off some warriors on an objective to keep it locked down while my venom goes elsewhere to hunt.

What you're saying makes sense, but if you can't kill them ALL on 1 round that you needed to score that objective, that's lost points and lost opportunities, whereas when you have obsec and your opponent doesn't, you just "autowin" the fight for the objective. You don't even HAVE to try to assault them.

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Rewind
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PostSubject: Re: 1500 Start Collecting and grotesquerie   Tue Jul 05 2016, 14:56

stevethedestroyeofworlds wrote:
Operating under the assumption that supplement units can start in main codex transports.
Are there any obvious flaws other than lack of AA?

Can someone please quote the rule that allows you to deploy a unit in a transport that wasn't purchased as a Dedicated Transport for the unit?

My understanding is that if you want to start embarked, it must be in a dedicated transport? Otherwise you have to deploy the units & embark once the game has started.

Therefore, you cannot start with the Grots. in the Raiders. To do so, you would have to buy the Grots. a Dedicated Transport?

Rules to back up my arguments:

"Models can only voluntarily embark or disembark in the movement phase" BRB p80

"The only limitation of a Dedicated Transport is that when it is deployed, it can only carry the unit it was selected with... After the game begins, it can then transport any friendly unit" BRB p81

The BRB is very clear in this regard, you can only embark a unit in the movement phase, UNLESS it's a unit's dedicated transport, in which case you can start deployed in it.

If I've missed a Codex rule etc. which then trumps the BRB, I would love to know about it?

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BetrayTheWorld
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PostSubject: Re: 1500 Start Collecting and grotesquerie   Tue Jul 05 2016, 19:36

I don't feel like doing all the rule digging for you, but it's widely accepted that you can deploy embarked upon non-dedicated transports. It's accepted at pretty much every major tournament around the world.

That said, the recent FAQ muddied the waters on whether you can start on battle brothers' transports.

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amorrowlyday
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PostSubject: Re: 1500 Start Collecting and grotesquerie   Tue Jul 05 2016, 19:53

Their point is consistent with that FAQ tho. It's certainly possible that the whole world has also been playing transports as FOC purchases wrong as well.
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BetrayTheWorld
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PostSubject: Re: 1500 Start Collecting and grotesquerie   Tue Jul 05 2016, 21:04

amorrowlyday wrote:
Their point is consistent with that FAQ tho. It's certainly possible that the whole world has also been playing transports as FOC purchases wrong as well.

Actually, not really. Count Adhemar posted the rule citation in another thread that says models may deploy on the table, in reserves, or inside transports, buildings, or fortifications. It's in the deployment section.

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amorrowlyday
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PostSubject: Re: 1500 Start Collecting and grotesquerie   Tue Jul 05 2016, 21:04

See my response there.
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