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StiXFletcher
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PostSubject: First Try Freakshow List   Tue Jun 21 2016, 14:04

DE/HC/H LIST - 958

Dark Eldar - Allied Detachment - 410


Succubus
Archite Glaive, The Armour of Misery

10 Kabalite Warriors
Splinter Cannon, Sybarite, Phantasm Grenade Launcher, Raider, Night Shields, Torment Grenade Launchers, Splinter Racks

Raider
Night Shields, Torment Grenade Launchers

Haemonculus Coven - Scalpel Squadron - 285

5 Wracks
Acothyst, 2 Liquifier Guns, Venom, Splinter Cannon

5 Wracks
Ossefactor, Venom, Splinter Cannon

Harlequins - Cast of Players - 263

5 Player Troupe
Harlequin’s Caress

Death Jester

Shadowseer
The Mask of Secrets, Mastery Level 2

Cast of Players gets into the Raider Turn 1 with Succubus.

Succubus, Shadowseer, Scalpel Squadron all offer Leadership debuffs which will help the Phantasm GL, Torment GLs and Psychic Shriek.

Double Liquifier Wracks are intended to secure First Blood for the extra d3 VPs.

Not sure whether to go for Telepathy or Phantasmancy for the Shadowseer. I will likely take the Primaris of each.

What do you all think?

Edit: Shadow Field Removed.


Last edited by StiXFletcher on Tue Jun 21 2016, 20:51; edited 1 time in total
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Seshiru
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PostSubject: Re: First Try Freakshow List   Tue Jun 21 2016, 15:41

Succubus can't take a shadow field Sad

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PostSubject: Re: First Try Freakshow List   Tue Jun 21 2016, 18:03

Will you be facing a lot of Marine armies? If so keep in mind you are spending points on toys that won't effect units with Fearless or And They Shall Know No Rules... I mean Fear making Torment and and Phantasm Grenades not worth the points in those match ups.

I'm sure that Betray the World, Jimsolo (one of the masters of the Freakshow), or Unothodoxy will be around soon to give you some good feed back to help you.


Last edited by CurstAlchemist on Wed Jun 22 2016, 05:32; edited 1 time in total
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PostSubject: Re: First Try Freakshow List   Tue Jun 21 2016, 20:52

@Seshiru wrote:
Succubus can't take a shadow field Sad

Thanks for the heads up. Saw I had 40pts going spare and threw it in without thinking.
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PostSubject: Re: First Try Freakshow List   Tue Jun 21 2016, 20:57

@CurstAlchemist wrote:
Will you be facing a lot of Marine armies? If so keep in mind you are spending points on toys that won't effect units with Fearless or And They Shall Know No Rules... I mean Fear making Torment and and Phantasm Grenades not worth the points in those match ups.

I'm sure that Betray the World, Jimsolo (the mastermind of the Freakshow), or Unothodoxy will be around soon to give you some good feed back to help you.

Who doesn't end up facing marines? Good point though. I have had a fair amount of success with weight of fire from the Kabalites in previous lists. Would you recommend loosing a GL for something that could deal with Marines?
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BetrayTheWorld
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PostSubject: Re: First Try Freakshow List   Wed Jun 22 2016, 05:46

I'd highly suggest going through several threads in the army lists section and looking at general advice given to others on their lists.

As for your list in particular, I think you have too many points invested in your warrior raider. You should keep it specialized with only crucial upgrades, like:

5 kabalite warriors w/Sybarite & phantasm grenade launcher in a raider w/torment grenade launcher

That saves you 40 points, enough to put a unit of warriors in that second raider, and change your allied detachment to a CAD, letting you select the succubus as your warlord if you choose to do so.

General advice: liquifier guns suck now. They're overpriced and with only S3, they're severely underpowered, so even when they DO get decent AP roll, they don't kill much. I'd personally drop the scalpel squadron and use the points on other things, like ravagers and/or haywire blaster scourges for more anti-tank.

Hope that helps! Good luck, and let us know what you decide! Wink

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PostSubject: Re: First Try Freakshow List   Wed Jun 22 2016, 07:07

@BetrayTheWorld wrote:
I'd highly suggest going through several threads in the army lists section and looking at general advice given to others on their lists.

As for your list in particular, I think you have too many points invested in your warrior raider. You should keep it specialized with only crucial upgrades, like:

5 kabalite warriors w/Sybarite & phantasm grenade launcher in a raider w/torment grenade launcher

That saves you 40 points, enough to put a unit of warriors in that second raider, and change your allied detachment to a CAD, letting you select the succubus as your warlord if you choose to do so.

General advice: liquifier guns suck now. They're overpriced and with only S3, they're severely underpowered, so even when they DO get decent AP roll, they don't kill much. I'd personally drop the scalpel squadron and use the points on other things, like ravagers and/or haywire blaster scourges for more anti-tank.

Hope that helps! Good luck, and let us know what you decide! Wink

I get your point on the Warrior Raider being too expensive. If I'm going to drop the Warrior squad size down to 5 aren't I just better off taking 5 Warriors, Sybarite, Phantasm GL, and a Venom w/ Splinter Cannon for 125pts? I loose the ability to take a Torment GL and a HP but gain more fire power and a 5++.

The second Raider is for the Harlequin unit to get in so I will likely keep that in the list. I'm more than happy with keeping it as an Allied Detachment as my Warlord will be the Troupe Master because Harlequin Warlord Traits.

I understand Liquifier guns are pretty pants now but figured they may have been useful for getting First Blood. I think you're right that it isn't worth the 40pts extra. Having said that I will likely keep the Scalpel Squadron since they offer an additional Ld debuff so they can support the Kabalite Warrior Torment/Phantasm GLs.
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BetrayTheWorld
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PostSubject: Re: First Try Freakshow List   Thu Jun 23 2016, 03:57

What are you going to do if all the other guy's infantry are in tanks/transports? Tanks don't get scared.

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PostSubject: Re: First Try Freakshow List   Thu Jun 23 2016, 11:31

@BetrayTheWorld wrote:
What are you going to do if all the other guy's infantry are in tanks/transports? Tanks don't get scared.

Hahaha that is a very good point. Dropping the weapons from the Wracks frees up a good amount of points. To help with anti-tank I need to load up on some Haywire Grenades. I think I might take some Reavers with Cluster Caltrops and Heat Lance/Blasters (not sure which to go for) or a Razorwing Jetfighter w/ 2 Dark Lances. Depending on how well it goes I may try swapping out the Succubus for a Lhamaean. The -2 Ld is great but getting within 6" I can see as being a challenge.
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PostSubject: Re: First Try Freakshow List   Fri Jun 24 2016, 15:08

Okay so here is the updated list.
One of the Warrior squads will be left in some backfield terrain so that the Cast of Players can climb in it with the Succubus. With 2 Dark lances and 3 Blasters it should be able to hurt vehicles. With special weapons, Harlequins and Psychic Shriek it should hurt TEQ and MEQ. With GLs, Psychic Shriek and Splinter it should cover GEQ. Finally Poison and Psychic Shriek should hurt MCs. I have no anti-flyer but in my local area we don't tend to use fliers in 1000pts games. Planning to take a Razorwing Jetfighter when I increase the points. So what issues do you think the list will still have?

DE/HC/H - 999
Dark Eldar - Realspace Raiders - 498
Succubus
Archite Glaive, The Armour of Misery
110

5 Kabalite Warriors
Blaster, Sybarite, Phantasm Grenade Launcher
Raider, Dark Lance, Night Shields, Torment Grenade Launchers
165

5 Kabalite Warriors
Blaster, Sybarite, Phantasm Grenade Launcher
Raider, Dark Lance, Night Shields, Torment Grenade Launchers
165

3 Reavers
Blaster
58

HC - Scalpel Squadron - 230
5 Wracks
Venom, Splinter Cannon
115

5 Wracks
Venom, Splinter Cannon
115

Harlequins - Cast of Players - 271
5 Player Troupe
2 Harlequin’s Caress
111

Death Jester
60

Shadowseer
The Mask of Secrets, Mastery Level 2
100
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BetrayTheWorld
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PostSubject: Re: First Try Freakshow List   Fri Jun 24 2016, 17:54

1 Blaster and 2 dark lances? Ok, let's math this out...

3 shots(1 at only 18") = 2 hits
2 Hits against AV12 = 1 glance or pen
Assuming it's a pen, = 33% chance of weapon destroyed or explodes result

So, with these numbers, that means that all of your anti-tank together will, on average, kill 1 AV12 tank with 3 HP roughly every 2 rounds. That gives you a maximum of 3 tanks destoyed over a 6 round game assuming nothing ever shoots your raiders or reavers(that won't happen).

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

This is fairly typical of a standard space marine list in the current meta. What would you do against this?

BATTLE COMPANY:
Battle Demi-Company 1
Captain w/Combi-Grav 100
3x 5 Tactical Marines in a razorback w/Lascannon & TL Plasma Gun 270
1x 5 Devastators w/ a razorback w/Lascannon & TL Plasma Gun 90
1 attack bike 40

Battle Demi-Company 2
Chaplain w/ Combi-Grav 100
3x 5 Tactical Marines in a razorback w/Lascannon & TL Plasma Gun 270
1x 5 Devastators w/ a razorback w/Lascannon & TL Plasma Gun 90
1 attack bike 40

TOTAL: 1000

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

So that's a 1k space marine list with 8 tanks carrying 8 lascannons and 8 twin-linked plasma guns. This is the type of list I'd make if I were playing space marines at 1k. Even if you went first and got lucky, you'd have only killed 1 tank, then the other 7 destroy every vehicle you have, and you'd probably get tabled by round 2 or 3.

I guess my primary point is this: If you're going to select a bunch of high cost units like harlies in low point games, you have to be prepared to be VERY efficient with your other points. Wracks simply are not that. So if you have any desire to be successful with your list, you're going to need to drop the wracks or drop some of the more expensive characters to give you the points necessary to pose some sort of resistance against vehicles.

I hope I helped! Good luck, and looking forward to hearing from you again! Very Happy

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PostSubject: Re: First Try Freakshow List   Fri Jun 24 2016, 21:15

@BetrayTheWorld wrote:
1 Blaster and 2 dark lances? Ok, let's math this out...

3 shots(1 at only 18") = 2 hits
2 Hits against AV12 = 1 glance or pen
Assuming it's a pen, = 33% chance of weapon destroyed or explodes result

So, with these numbers, that means that all of your anti-tank together will, on average, kill 1 AV12 tank with 3 HP roughly every 2 rounds. That gives you a maximum of 3 tanks destoyed over a 6 round game assuming nothing ever shoots your raiders or reavers(that won't happen).

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

This is fairly typical of a standard space marine list in the current meta. What would you do against this?

BATTLE COMPANY:
Battle Demi-Company 1
Captain w/Combi-Grav 100
3x 5 Tactical Marines in a razorback w/Lascannon & TL Plasma Gun 270
1x 5 Devastators w/ a razorback w/Lascannon & TL Plasma Gun 90
1 attack bike 40

Battle Demi-Company 2
Chaplain w/ Combi-Grav 100
3x 5 Tactical Marines in a razorback w/Lascannon & TL Plasma Gun 270
1x 5 Devastators w/ a razorback w/Lascannon & TL Plasma Gun 90
1 attack bike 40

TOTAL: 1000

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

So that's a 1k space marine list with 8 tanks carrying 8 lascannons and 8 twin-linked plasma guns. This is the type of list I'd make if I were playing space marines at 1k. Even if you went first and got lucky, you'd have only killed 1 tank, then the other 7 destroy every vehicle you have, and you'd probably get tabled by round 2 or 3.

I guess my primary point is this: If you're going to select a bunch of high cost units like harlies in low point games, you have to be prepared to be VERY efficient with your other points. Wracks simply are not that. So if you have any desire to be successful with your list, you're going to need to drop the wracks or drop some of the more expensive characters to give you the points necessary to pose some sort of resistance against vehicles.

I hope I helped! Good luck, and looking forward to hearing from you again! Very Happy

I know it wouldn't bee too different but there are 3 Blasters altogether. For what it's worth I'm pretty sure that list would be illegal as the Gladius strike force needs an Auxiliary option to go with the Batlle Company. Would you recommend taking a Lahmaean then?
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PostSubject: Re: First Try Freakshow List   Sat Jun 25 2016, 01:00

@StiXFletcher wrote:

I know it wouldn't bee too different but there are 3 Blasters altogether.

Yeah, not really much difference.

@StiXFletcher wrote:
For what it's worth I'm pretty sure that list would be illegal as the Gladius strike force needs an Auxiliary option to go with the Batlle Company.


Fair enough, but you could still take that many vehicles in a space marine list at 1k. Would just need to rework the list. The point is that someone could arrange for quite a few vehicles to be present at 1k points. If they do, you autolose with only 3 blasters.

@StiXFletcher wrote:
Would you recommend taking a Lahmaean then?

It depends on the rest of your list. If you have a CC unit to put the succubus in, like grotesques, then I'd keep the succubus. Otherwise, yeah.

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PostSubject: Re: First Try Freakshow List   Sat Jun 25 2016, 08:16

@BetrayTheWorld wrote:
@StiXFletcher wrote:

I know it wouldn't bee too different but there are 3 Blasters altogether.

Yeah, not really much difference.

@StiXFletcher wrote:
For what it's worth I'm pretty sure that list would be illegal as the Gladius strike force needs an Auxiliary option to go with the Batlle Company.


Fair enough, but you could still take that many vehicles in a space marine list at 1k. Would just need to rework the list. The point is that someone could arrange for quite a few vehicles to be present at 1k points. If they do, you autolose with only 3 blasters.

@StiXFletcher wrote:
Would you recommend taking a Lahmaean then?

It depends on the rest of your list. If you have a CC unit to put the succubus in, like grotesques, then I'd keep the succubus. Otherwise, yeah.


I could replace the second warrior unit and the Reavers with some Blasterborn (or would Scourges be better?).

The Succubus would join the Harlequins.
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PostSubject: Re: First Try Freakshow List   Sat Jun 25 2016, 15:29

@StiXFletcher wrote:

I could replace the second warrior unit and the Reavers with some Blasterborn (or would Scourges be better?).

First off, you have to have 2 troops in the detachment, which I just noticed is realspace raiders instead of a CAD. You want to change it to a CAD. Objective secured is too important of a special rule to give up without a REALLY, REALLY good reason.

Second, you're talking about getting rid of your current anti-tank units to free up points to add an anti-tank unit, when the objective is to improve the amount of anti-tank in your army. That doesn't make sense. I don't think you're understanding how many dark lances it takes to destroy the typical vehicle. I don't know why you're being so resistant to the idea of REALLY increasing your anti-tank presence. If it's that no one really plays with vehicles in your area, then fine, leave you list as is(after changing to a CAD) and good luck! Wink

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