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 Start Collecting - Newbie List - 750pts

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Otto Weston
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PostSubject: Start Collecting - Newbie List - 750pts   Sat Jun 18 2016, 21:19

Hi there, I'm new to the Dark Eldar but have pre-ordered two sets of the Start Collecting Boxes due to the savings.

Been playing around on Battlescribe and looking at what I could do. The idea is that the Archons would sit in the Raiders with the Warriors and they'd go around attacking together to combo off of one anotherr using the (-2 leadership bubble) + 4x anti-Leadership weapons + Archangel anti -Leadership Relic Weapon. The reavers would hit targets of opportunity or seize objectives.

Archon w/Phantasm Grenade Launcher + Armour of Misery + Standard Kit

Archon w/Phantasm Grenade Launcher + Archangel of Pain + Standard Kit

Kabalite Warriors x7 + Warrior w/ Blaster + Sybarite w/ Haywire Grenades
Raider w/ Nightshield, Splinter Racks, Dark Lance, Torment Grenade Launcher

Kabalite Warriors x7 + Warrior w/ Blaster + Sybarite w/ Haywire Grenades
Raider w/ Nightshield, Splinter Racks, Dark Lance, Torment Grenade Launcher


Reavers x3 w/ Heat Lance + Caltrops

Reavers x3 w/ Heat Lance + Caltrops


Any C&C would be welcome!

Thanks!
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CurstAlchemist
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PostSubject: Re: Start Collecting - Newbie List - 750pts   Sat Jun 18 2016, 21:28

Keep in mind that Reavers are Fast Attack options for the Dark Eldar so they don't have objective secured, and that Phantasm Grenades have no effect on ATSKNF.

Of course we still have yet to find out what the special formation will do for us.
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stevethedestroyeofworlds
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PostSubject: Re: Start Collecting - Newbie List - 750pts   Sun Jun 19 2016, 06:38

CurstAlchemist wrote:
Keep in mind that Reavers are Fast Attack options for the Dark Eldar so they don't have objective secured
Honestly, I doubt that it will matter most of the time. Reavers will be able to demolish most OS units in one charge, at that points level, or at the very least make them fall back with that awesome HoW from CC's
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CurstAlchemist
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PostSubject: Re: Start Collecting - Newbie List - 750pts   Sun Jun 19 2016, 07:09

stevethedestroyeofworlds wrote:
Honestly, I doubt that it will matter most of the time. Reavers will be able to demolish most OS units in one charge, at that points level, or at the very least make them fall back with that awesome HoW from CC's

You're right, at the points he is talking about, I doubt he will run into anything they wont handle but with Windriders being troops just wanted to make sure.
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Otto Weston
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PostSubject: Re: Start Collecting - Newbie List - 750pts   Sun Jun 19 2016, 13:10

Thanks for the responses.

I've tooled myself up for this anti-leadership gimmick but how good is it? I know it doesn't effect SM's or fearless opponents which obviously limits its potential but how does it do against its opportune targets (IG/Orks etc)?

Regarding actual functionality, how effective are the reavers at dealing with armour? On paper they seem alright with S6 HOW + Heat Lance but is that true for the tabletop?
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CptMetal
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PostSubject: Re: Start Collecting - Newbie List - 750pts   Sun Jun 19 2016, 14:18

Against non Space Marines I really like it. I used that against imperial guard. Um...Astra Militarum and it kicked ass.
I could've used it against Orks too since it ignores cover and 10 Looters behind an aegis is a pain in the ass.

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Rewind
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PostSubject: Re: Start Collecting - Newbie List - 750pts   Mon Jun 20 2016, 21:29

Firstly can I start by saying I like the idea of the list & applaud you for coming up with a more creative list than I ever have, I will also say I am still pretty noob.

That being said Smile

I think it's too many points. If you could scale it down to 500, I think it might hold up better. In my local meta people tend to expand past their starting 500, with big shiny units or flyers etc. I feel you've stretched out the 2 starting boxes very well, but just too far.

I personally think you only have the models for something like this:

DE 498

Archon, Agoniser, AOM (100)
9 x Warrior, Lance Raider (132)
10 x Warrior, Lance Raider (140)
2 x 3 x Reaver, CC (63)

The extras you've added, just don't seem worth 250pts (In my opinion) I know you don't own them, but you could have brought 2 x triple Lance Ravagers instead of your upgrades & another Archon, who aren't that special.

I cringe at the thought of what our enemies can bring with that extra 250pts, that you haven't countered.

I wish you luck & I hope I'm wrong!

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BetrayTheWorld
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PostSubject: Re: Start Collecting - Newbie List - 750pts   Tue Jun 21 2016, 07:47

I think you have too many points invested in those raiders and kabalite squads. Upgrade happy. I'd drop everything that's not essential to your negative leadership plan, which means 5 warriors in a raider with TGL per squad. Instead of 191 points per squad, it will cost you 110 points per squad.

Just that change alone would give you enough points for a triple lance ravager and a unit of mandrakes.

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Kantalla
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PostSubject: Re: Start Collecting - Newbie List - 750pts   Tue Jun 21 2016, 10:46

Firstly, it's neat to see several new Dark Eldar players seeing the starter box and getting keen to play Dark Eldar. This is the most interesting of the lists, but...

Fear weapons are ok against their ideal targets, and need leadership shenanigans to be effective. The are useless against Marines, Fearless or Mechanised lists - that means a lot of what you might be facing most of your army wont really do much.

The recent draft FAQ has two things that will affect your plans. 1) Auras don't extend from vehicles so the Armour of Misery needs to disembark to be effective, and 2) Jink affects passengers, so no fear weapons fired if you Jink.

Your Archon with the Archangel of Pain can't fire that and the Phantasm Grenade Launcher in the same turn.

Archons are not points efficient. Having two of them is a major disadvantage against more efficient units in small games. Unless the saving from the starter set is more than the price of the Archon, you are probably better to skip the starter sets.

IMO there are a couple of effective ways to use Raiders at the moment:
1) Sit in area terrain (or otherwise behind cover) so you don't need to jink. This can be a gun platform with lots of splinter fire.
2) Carry an assault unit so you are not concerned about jinking costing firepower.
I don't think your plan works for either of those.

You have a lot of upgrades, and therefore not many units. If you really want to go on a fear bomb approach, with two starter sets you could swap things around a bit:

Archon - WWP, Phantasm Grenade Launcher, Armour of Misery
Archon - Archangel of Pain, Blaster
10 Warriors with Blaster including Sybarite with Phantasm Grenade Launcher

5 Warriors including Sybarite with Phantasm Grenade Launcher
Raider with Torment Grenade Launcher

5 Warriors including Sybarite with Phantasm Grenade Launcher
Raider with Torment Grenade Launcher

3 Reavers with Cluster Caltrops and Heat Lance

3 Reavers with Cluster Caltrops and Heat Lance

The two Archons join the large Warrior squad and webway portal in for a comedy fear bomb. The list is still woefully low on anti-tank, and wastes a lot of points against many armies, so I wouldn't say it is competitive. But it does look like it could be interesting, and squeezes in even more fear weapons.

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Otto Weston
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PostSubject: Re: Start Collecting - Newbie List - 750pts   Tue Jun 21 2016, 13:23

Loving all this feedback guys, thank you!

Kantalla, ty for suggestion for WWP - I wouldn't have considered that, it's a very interesting approach that I'll probably follow.

General consensus is that I spend too much on upgrades, the raider squads are too expensive and I lack anti-tank.

How would I go about adding AT? I've heard Ravagers are a lot less effective in 7th and are just as glass as the other stuff we have.


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BetrayTheWorld
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PostSubject: Re: Start Collecting - Newbie List - 750pts   Wed Jun 22 2016, 05:24

Ravagers aren't as glass as the other stuff we have. They're at least immune to bolter fire from the front and sides. Ravagers are our most versatile AT option, being effective vs a number of other things, while haywire scourges are our most effective unit vs AV12+, but not really effective against non-vehicles.

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Demantiae
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PostSubject: Re: Start Collecting - Newbie List - 750pts   Wed Jun 22 2016, 13:59

If you're using the formation from the starter box (and if the rumour of it granting preferred enemy to your kabalite squad is true) then spending points on splinter racks is inefficient. Preferred enemy will give you 50% of what the splinter racks are giving you for free.

Here's a 750 list that can leverage you more anti-tank:

Archon w/ blaster (75)
Archon w/ blaster (75)

10 Kabalites w/ dark lance (100)

5 Trueborn w/ 4 blasters
  - Raider w/ dark lance (175)
5 Trueborn w/ 4 blasters
  - Raider w/ dark lance (175)

3 Reavers w/ champion and cluster caltrops (73)
3 Reavers w/ champion and cluster caltrops (73)

746 points.

Stick an Archon in each Raider with the Blasterborn. In each boat you have 4 blasters rerolling 1's to hit and an Archon with stupid BS so he never misses. Use the Reavers to take objectives, using the Blasterborn as anti-tank support where needed. Camp the 10 man kabalites in cover (preferably on an objective) and use the lance to snipe at stray transports that try to slip behind your Raiders. Dunno how effective it might be but you got a lot of anti-tank in there. Not so much anti-infantry but you could always push your kabalites into rapid fire range if you needed. Use your Reavers well and sell their lives high and you should be able to handle infantry anyway. At worse you can have your blasters target non-vehicles and all but guarantee 4-5 kills per squad per round (if you avoid casualties yourself).

When it comes to DE you only buy upgrades you really need to do the job you need them to do. More lives to spend and guns to fire are always better than more toys to play with for the DE.

(EDIT): You can swap out the dark lance in the kabalites for a splinter canon and spend those 5 points on a haywire grenade for an Archon if you like. Or drop the heavy weapon entirely and spend the 20 points on something else. You also have the option of splitting that 10 man squad into 2 MSU squads of 5 and grab 2 objectives but you'd lose versatility and punch if you did this in favour of better board coverage. Splitting them in two gives you the option to run 2 more blaster if you like swapping the versatility of the lance as a sweeper for the versatility of two units with blasters to at least threaten vehicles trying to push them off objectives.

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