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 It can't be as bad as it looks, can it?

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mynamelegend
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PostSubject: It can't be as bad as it looks, can it?   Wed Jun 15 2016, 01:49

So I took a break of a few months from looking at the game in any serious way, and I've returned since December to look at the current state of affairs for Dark Eldar, and as far as I can tell...

We're a 1-9 matchup with most serious opponents. (Where a 5-5 matchup is an even 50/50 chance at victory between two equal opponents, and a 10-0 matchup says it is literally mathematically impossible to lose/win)

So this is my cry for reassurance or clarification, is our codex competitively dead or have I missed something here? If I go forth with finishing up my painting will it be purely for the love of the models, or is there some way for me to enter a tournament and make a good showing? Should I go back into hibernation and see if something's been done to address this six months or a year from now?
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BetrayTheWorld
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PostSubject: Re: It can't be as bad as it looks, can it?   Wed Jun 15 2016, 02:51

Now certainly isn't the hayday of the dark eldar. That said, it's a perfect time to get your DE painting finished. Since, if you paint at a pace like mine, DE might be good by the time you're done! Very Happy

But in all seriousness, I'm holding on to hope of a new codex around xmas.

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stilgar27
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PostSubject: Re: It can't be as bad as it looks, can it?   Wed Jun 15 2016, 03:21

It's... pretty bad.  I don't know where you're getting those stats from (tournies?), but as it stands our codex is pretty over costed, under powered, and lacks a variety of strategies.  Admittedly this has a lot more to do with the massive improvements of other codices, while ours was arguably just a step backwards.

As for what we can do about it? - A lot of us have taken to playing our dark eldar as eldar corsairs for the time being.
It's got some of the flavor of dark eldar, and a lot of modeling potential, but without craftworld/forgeworld vehicles and bikes though it could still be rough going.

8th edition is all rumors at this point. You can head on over to natfka (or wherever) and read them for yourself.  The only specific rumor which would affect us, was that there won't be 8th edition codices but instead the 7th edition books will be modified going forward using warzone style supplements featuring formations.  If that's true though - well it's not good news for the dark kin Rolling Eyes
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PostSubject: Re: It can't be as bad as it looks, can it?   Wed Jun 15 2016, 03:26

So much more goes into playing Dark Eldar than math dude so please don't just make an assumption based off numbers. The army is a spoiler army no doubt, and in a general sense not too many other people will play Dark Eldar in a tournament setting let a lone hone and fine tune the skills necessary for success.
It's all a matter of perception.

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Selvhan
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PostSubject: Re: It can't be as bad as it looks, can it?   Wed Jun 15 2016, 04:13

I'd say it depends. People around me d semi competitive list, so I'm having lots of trouble. But if you play against friendly list, you should have more success....
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stevethedestroyeofworlds
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PostSubject: Re: It can't be as bad as it looks, can it?   Wed Jun 15 2016, 05:12

Sure we lack super strong/broken units/formations that others have access to, but that just makes it more fun when you get to zoom around them, laughing as their deathstar can't reach a thing, or when you poison their riptide to death, or scourge their knight to death in one turn.
You won't be wiping out much in one volley like other armies can do, but a really well made list can deal with almost anything.
Reavers with CC's shred almost everything. Covens has some great tanky units that can tear most things apart in melee. Venom spam makes anything that isn't a GC with a toughness cry. Haywire or heat lance scourges tear through vehicles.
We might not have the best army by a long shot, but we have fun options.

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Jimsolo
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PostSubject: Re: It can't be as bad as it looks, can it?   Wed Jun 15 2016, 05:42

Where are you getting the 9-1 statistic? Is it just something you're throwing out there as a way to say we suck, or is it based on tournament findings or some other hard numbers?

Bottom line: our codex IS hurting for certain. Although we can still swing pipe in local settings, at open-call GTs we're pretty much Atom from Real Steel. We can put up a good fight, but the conclusion was foregone.

That being said, in a local environement, depending on your meta, you can still roll hard. My local meta has no Knights armies and tons of MC/GMC lists, so my Freakshows tend to kick ass pretty hard. Even playing "regular" Dark Eldar (Reavers and Venomspam) I don't think I've ever had a win-loss record as low as 1-9.
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Cavash
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PostSubject: Re: It can't be as bad as it looks, can it?   Wed Jun 15 2016, 11:18

It's not the best time for DE, but we are not a dead army. There will likely be a new codex for us around November time. DE are supposed to be a tough army to use, but people can and do win with us.


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Count Adhemar
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PostSubject: Re: It can't be as bad as it looks, can it?   Wed Jun 15 2016, 11:20

Cavash wrote:
It's not the best time for DE, but we are not a dead army. There will likely be a new codex for us around November time. DE are supposed to be a tough army to use, but people can and do win with us.

I'd be very surprised if we got a new codex anytime soon, let alone this year. Hope springs eternal though!

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Cavash
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PostSubject: Re: It can't be as bad as it looks, can it?   Wed Jun 15 2016, 11:36

That's going off of the rumours of a new edition soon. Who else would they give a brand new, great set of rules to then make them invalid? Razz

Seriously though, I dont think it is too unrealistic. Not a big release, just something to make us more viable. And yes, I am well aware that I am just being very optimistic

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stilgar27
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PostSubject: Re: It can't be as bad as it looks, can it?   Wed Jun 15 2016, 13:36

stevethedestroyeofworlds wrote:
Sure we lack super strong/broken units/formations that others have access to, but that just makes it more fun when you get to zoom around them, laughing as their deathstar can't reach a thing, or when you poison their riptide to death, or scourge their knight to death in one turn.

No offense but... who can't reach what?  Besides dark eldar (or instead of) I've been playing eldar corsairs, slaanesh daemons, and a dark angels army I've recently inherited - all of them are capable of being at least as fast as the dark eldar.

Seekers of slaanesh can move+run 25"+ a turn, have fleet, deep strike, outflank, and acute senses. Corsairs do everything dark eldar do but with more mobility (and often with scout and more options).  Dark angels... gravity upwash alone makes marine skimmers faster, and that's ignoring that their speeders can take versatile range 48" weapons and re-roll jink saves.  If you squad them, the unit can also be given scout, stealth, shrouded, strafing run... and interceptor for 30 points.  I won't even get in to the "overwatch at 2-5 bs even though they're vehicles" shenanigans.

Grotesques(eries) and haywire blasters are honestly all I think we have going for us at the moment.


Last edited by stilgar27 on Wed Jun 15 2016, 15:50; edited 2 times in total (Reason for editing : forgot some stuff)
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CptMetal
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PostSubject: Re: It can't be as bad as it looks, can it?   Wed Jun 15 2016, 13:47

Where do you got that information about the new codex from?

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The Dark Eldar Codex sucks. You probably won just because your enemy loaded his dice to loose. Never forget this mantra and spread the word. Mention it in every discussion possible, people can´t get enough of that valuable information and need to be reminded regularely.
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Cavash
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PostSubject: Re: It can't be as bad as it looks, can it?   Wed Jun 15 2016, 13:57

CptMetal wrote:
Where do you got that information about the new codex from?

Merely hopeful speculation. I 100% do not claim to know if/when we would be getting another one. If the past is anything to go by it would be in a November, though.

I would like to emphasise 'hopeful'.

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CptMetal
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PostSubject: Re: It can't be as bad as it looks, can it?   Wed Jun 15 2016, 14:32

Welcome to the dark city! Enter and abolish all hope! Very Happy

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+++++INCOMING TRANSMISSION+++++
The Dark Eldar Codex sucks. You probably won just because your enemy loaded his dice to loose. Never forget this mantra and spread the word. Mention it in every discussion possible, people can´t get enough of that valuable information and need to be reminded regularely.
+++++END OF TRANSMISSION+++++
http://www.thedarkcity.net/t12720-tainted-reborn
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BetrayTheWorld
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PostSubject: Re: It can't be as bad as it looks, can it?   Wed Jun 15 2016, 15:35

There WAS a rumour earlier this year about the possibility of getting a new DE codex towards the end of the year. It popped up from a "reliable source", then not much else has been heard about it. So it may or may not come to fruition, but there are whispers about it.

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Thor665
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PostSubject: Re: It can't be as bad as it looks, can it?   Wed Jun 15 2016, 16:25

I kind of feel like that always happens though, people just naturally vibe us for that November month as, like 3 of our 5 books were released in November, and the other two in October. I don't think any other faction has that reliability.

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BetrayTheWorld
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PostSubject: Re: It can't be as bad as it looks, can it?   Wed Jun 15 2016, 16:32

Remember, remember the 5th of november...we should get a Guy Fawkes based Harlequin-style model that's unique to DE.


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Painjunky
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PostSubject: Re: It can't be as bad as it looks, can it?   Wed Jun 15 2016, 22:15

No, things are really not that bad at all.

The only armies i feel outclassed by are eldar and tau (freaking GMC Mad) and they are the very top tier so we're not alone there.
It's by no means impossible to beat eldar or tau either. In fact i enjoy the challenge and the victory is soooo much sweeter.

CSM, orks, nids, BA, SOB are not feeling the love right now either.
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Jimsolo
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PostSubject: Re: It can't be as bad as it looks, can it?   Wed Jun 15 2016, 23:02

The only things that give me fits are free razorspam lists.
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