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 Expansion Plan into 1850

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Rewind
Kabalite Warrior
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PostSubject: Expansion Plan into 1850   Tue May 31 2016, 13:08

Hi guys,

After putting up a few starting lists & being humbled by my lack of knowledge & ability, I'm back with a planned 1850 list, that I hope to slowly build into over time & was hoping to get a few opinions as to whether I'm completely wasting my money, or if I'll end up with a competative list?

I'm not looking at entering tournaments etc, so it'll just be for games in & around my area's LGS & indi-group, so doesn't need to be 'Super-Cheese' & obviously I'm not looking to win every game, as I play DE!

Kabal of the Dripping Gash 1848pts

DE CAD (1198)

Succubus, Glaive + Haywire Grenade (100) - (Joins Incubi)
4 x Incubi incl. Klaivex, Cannon Venom (155)
3 x 5 x Warriors, Cannon Venom (105) (315)
3 x 6 x Reavers, 2 x Cluster Caltrops (126) (378)
2 x Ravager, Triple Lance (125) (250)

CTC Formation (650)

5 x Talos, 5 x Ichor Injectors

So, thoughts?

I worry I have enough AT, if I lose an early Ravager, I may my screwed?

Can easily drop a Reaver squad to field a squad of Scourges with 4x HWB instead, leaving a few points for a small upgrade somewhere?

This is essentially a theory-crafting exercise, but is is the sort of list I would like to run & the shopping list is quite considerable:

  • Succubus
  • Venom
  • Incubi
  • Warriors
  • 12 x Reavers
  • or 6 x Reavers + Scourges
  • Ravager
  • 4 x Talos

GW prices = £314, or, approx. £230.00 shopping around (Triple Helix FTW)

So, before I get carried away & buy a whole load of things I may never use, can you guys please do your usual, ie, take careful aim & shoot me down!

Thank you in advance!

Rewind
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Kehmor
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PostSubject: Re: Expansion Plan into 1850   Tue May 31 2016, 13:59

I appreciate that you might be running the incubi and succubus for fluffy/fun purposes so please feel free to ignore my advise. Also note: I have only been playing small games this edition so my advice might be moot but if it were my list I would:

Drop the Incubi and succubus to save 255 points.

Get 2 x Lhameans with venoms (75 points)(-150 points)

Take one additional unit of warriors with venom (-105 points)

Drop one ravager (125 points)

Take heat lances on each unit of reavers (-60)

Take an additional venom on its own (-65)

Run dual CADs and split the reavers into units of 3 except for one unit which you keep as 6.

Note: all calculations above assume yours were right - I didn't check.

This will mean for the price on your Incubi unit with succubus you get an additional 24 shots from venoms and 5 extra warriors - plus two obsec units.

For the price of a ravager you instead get an additional 12 venom shots and 6 heat lance shots which are spread out more and harder for the enemy to nullify your anti tank early.

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Rewind
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PostSubject: Re: Expansion Plan into 1850   Tue May 31 2016, 14:29

Thanks for your comments!

Kehmor wrote:

Drop the Incubi and succubus to save 255 points.

I do see the logic here, but as you rightly say, she is there for fluff with the Incubi more than anything else, it may not be the best use of points, but for now I do want to run them, if I ever go full on competitive, I would drop them as you recommend.

Assuming I did keep the above, would your recommendation for changing up the AT options still stand?

Rewind
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Kehmor
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PostSubject: Re: Expansion Plan into 1850   Tue May 31 2016, 16:49

Rewind wrote:
Thanks for your comments!

Kehmor wrote:

Drop the Incubi and succubus to save 255 points.

I do see the logic here, but as you rightly say, she is there for fluff with the Incubi more than anything else, it may not be the best use of points, but for now I do want to run them, if I ever go full on competitive, I would drop them as you recommend.

Assuming I did keep the above, would your recommendation for changing up the AT options still stand?

Rewind

I think the 6 heat lances will give you more versatility - remember with rending the reavers can viably charge vehicles too, and the heat lances are also great vs MEQ and TEQ. Putting all your anti tank into two units is pretty risky in a large game - a bit of bad lucky could see you in big trouble.

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BetrayTheWorld
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PostSubject: Re: Expansion Plan into 1850   Tue May 31 2016, 18:24

Ok, I'm going to suggest a series of minor changes for efficiency:

Drop:
1 Incubi (This makes sure your squad's Klaivex will get benefits from rampage when they assault, which is better than 1 more Incubi's attacks)
1 Unit of Reavers
1 Venom from a warrior squad
TOTAL: 213(including your 2 free points)

Buy:
5 twin-linked haywire blasters on your Talos 50
1 More triple-lance ravager 125
4 more warriors in your foot-squad(use this squad to hold the objective in your deployment zone) 32
TOTAL: 207

This should help resolve your anti-tank concerns.

This leaves you with 6 points to spend. I don't see any super-obvious place to put it, so I'd probably take the Parasite's Kiss pistol on your succubus.

As others have said, Incubi aren't ideal, so you're going to want to choose your targets carefully.

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Rewind
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PostSubject: Re: Expansion Plan into 1850   Tue May 31 2016, 21:39

Thank you!

I simply MUST run a proper HQ, I'm 36 on Monday, so am old enough to make bad decisions & not care Smile

I guess however, I'm not THAT devoted to the Incubi, but I still want a melee unit, not to attack other melee units, to try & kill/negate shooty units.

So, 'Drum roll, Please!' taking both your comments into consideration & with some slashing of my own, I re-present...

Kabal of the Dripping Gash 1849pts

DE CAD (1199)

Succubus, Glaive (95)
4 x Lhameans, Cannon Venom (155)
3 x 5 x Warriors, Cannon Venom (105) (315)
9 x Reavers, 3 x Cluster Caltrops (309)
5 x Scourges, 4 x HWB (120)
3 x Ravager, Triple Lance (125) (375)

CTC Formation (650)

5 x Talos, 5 x Ichor Injectors

Triple Ravagers it is, but rather than HWB on Talos, took HWB Scourges, using points saved from 1/2 a unit of Reavers, which buddy up into a 9 man squad. Is a 6 & a 3 better here? Dropped Incubi to Lhameans, which saved points to keep the venom.

Significantly more AT than before & I'm no longer worried about losing my 1st Ravager, or having 2 jinking/stunned & in general I think it looks better on a whole, so thank you!

Theme/fluff wise I'm actually happier too, as I was hoping to model an all female warrior kabal. Succubus & Lhameans leading, Warriors, Scouges, Reavers & Venom pilots & Ravager gunners can all easily be made using the appropriate, ahem, chest. Cruel & vicious.

I hope to play in a tactical/strategic manner, playing for VP at all times not kills, I hope to be under-estimated, I want them to see all female kabal & think it's all for fun, I don't want them to see me comeing.......
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Kehmor
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PostSubject: Re: Expansion Plan into 1850   Tue May 31 2016, 22:23

Personally I'd:

Drop the scourges, add another unit of warriors in venoms, switch one ravager to dissies, run the reavers as 3 units and give each a heat lance. But that is just personal preference - I have found scourges ridiculous expensive for how easy they are to erase.

I find your kabal name hilarious.
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BetrayTheWorld
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PostSubject: Re: Expansion Plan into 1850   Tue May 31 2016, 22:49

I think you misunderstood me Rewind. I was only saying to drop 1 model from your Incubi, not necessarily the entire unit, since you'd previously said you'd like to run them and the succubus even though they're not ideal.

Also, the haywire blasters on the Talos are better because they're twin-linked, and on a scouting platform that is hard to kill.

My suggested list would look like this:

DE CAD (1150)

Succubus, Glaive, Armour of Misery + Haywire Grenade (115) - (Joins Incubi)
3 x Incubi incl. Klaivex, Cannon Venom (135)
2 x 5 x Warriors, Cannon Venom (105) (210)
1 X 3 X Reavers, 1 Cluster Caltrops (63)
2 x 6 x Reavers, 2 x Cluster Caltrops (126) (252)
3 x Ravager, Triple Lance (125) (375)

CTC Formation (700)

5 x Talos, 5 x Ichor Injectors, 5 Haywire Blasters

TOTAL: 1850

That's what I'd run if you wanted to stick close to what you original outlined. If you're at all amiable to swapping out the incubi, I might consider trading them for a unit of grotesques in a raider, which you could do by dropping the unit of 3 reavers. That'd give you enough to swap the incubi for 3 grotesques with an aberration w/agoniser in a raider. Don't feel any pressure to do it either way, but this gives you a little variation you can run on the list later if it feels like something you'd like to pursue. Sort of a modular list option. Wink

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Kehmor
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PostSubject: Re: Expansion Plan into 1850   Tue May 31 2016, 22:59

BetrayTheWorld wrote:
I think you misunderstood me Rewind. I was only saying to drop 1 model from your Incubi, not necessarily the entire unit, since you'd previously said you'd like to run them and the succubus even though they're not ideal.

Also, the haywire blasters on the Talos are better because they're twin-linked, and on a scouting platform that is hard to kill.

My suggested list would look like this:

DE CAD (1150)

Succubus, Glaive, Armour of Misery + Haywire Grenade (115) - (Joins Incubi)
3 x Incubi incl. Klaivex, Cannon Venom (135)
2 x 5 x Warriors, Cannon Venom (105) (210)
1 X 3 X Reavers, 1 Cluster Caltrops (63)
2 x 6 x Reavers, 2 x Cluster Caltrops (126) (252)
3 x Ravager, Triple Lance (125) (375)

CTC Formation (700)

5 x Talos, 5 x Ichor Injectors, 5 Haywire Blasters

TOTAL: 1850

That's what I'd run if you wanted to stick close to what you original outlined. If you're at all amiable to swapping out the incubi, I might consider trading them for a unit of grotesques in a raider, which you could do by dropping the unit of 3 reavers. That'd give you enough to swap the incubi for 3 grotesques with an aberration w/agoniser in a raider. Don't feel any pressure to do it either way, but this gives you a little variation you can run on the list later if it feels like something you'd like to pursue. Sort of a modular list option. Wink


To be honest - if you are mostly playing with friends and like the fluff of the incubi - maybe see if they'd let you run the models but with the rules of grotesques.
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Rewind
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PostSubject: Re: Expansion Plan into 1850   Wed Jun 01 2016, 08:26

As always that's a lot to consider!

But, some great pointers as always, so thank you!

My kabal is starting to take shape, I just need to get painting!
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