HomeDark Eldar WikiDark Eldar ResourcesNull CityFAQUsergroupsRegisterLog in
Share | 
 

 Dark Eldar: WS5/BS5 justified?

View previous topic View next topic Go down 
Go to page : Previous  1, 2, 3  Next
AuthorMessage
Kehmor
Kabalite Warrior
avatar

Posts : 128
Join date : 2016-03-30

PostSubject: Re: Dark Eldar: WS5/BS5 justified?   Thu May 26 2016, 13:39

Massaen wrote:
I disagree completely with WS/BS5 on standard models - let alone army wide. Doing this would require a complete redo of the whole game.

Harlequins and Incubi are both WS 5 while every other aspect warrior and combat unit in the pointy ear arsenal is WS4. Bumping wyches (or the whole DE army) to 5 would require Harlequins, Incubi and all combat aspects to be upped by at least 1 - and then its a slippery slope as balance would require vanguard marines going up to 5 as well as assault terminators and that's just the first 2 examples.

I also disagree with rending on wyches - harlequins have always been the pinnacle of combat for the elder and they need to stay that way. That said, they also provide a good precedent for handing out better Wyche weapons as options - like pseudo rending (to avoid them destroying vehicles) and the like.

Why would vanguard marines and terminators need to be upped? The point is to make DE stronger in a fluffy way - not to just make everything comparatively stronger - that would make the process completely pointless.
Back to top Go down
stilgar27
Sybarite
avatar

Posts : 468
Join date : 2012-12-04

PostSubject: Re: Dark Eldar: WS5/BS5 justified?   Thu May 26 2016, 15:48

Different codex but I usually feel obligated to mention that daemonettes have rending and weapon skill 5 at 9 points a piece.  While bloodletters are 10 points a piece, have both weapon and ballistic skill 5, and come with ap3 weapons.  This isn't an effect of power creep either, as their most recent codex is 2 years older than the most recent dark eldar one... although they have seen some decurion style improvements more recently.

I'm not saying dark eldar should have 5s as standard, only that it isn't unprecedented or game-breaking.

If the rumor that GW isn't changing any stats/costs throughout 8th edition is true, then the easy (and fluffy) way to emulate WS/BS5 would be a formation that simply gives Preferred Enemy - All.
Back to top Go down
Calyptra
Wych
avatar

Posts : 698
Join date : 2013-03-25
Location : Boston

PostSubject: Re: Dark Eldar: WS5/BS5 justified?   Sat May 28 2016, 07:01

Anything that better represents the Dark Eldar lore is fine with me. Eldar are described as being more skilled than even enhanced humans, and the True Kin are supposed to be faster, stronger, and more skilled than their Craftworld cousins.

A Kabalite should not have the same stat line as a Guardian.

_________________
Dark Eldar plog: Drug-Crazed Space Elves
Vampire Counts plog: Bat Country
Back to top Go down
Painjunky
Wych
avatar

Posts : 851
Join date : 2011-08-08
Location : Sunshine Coast

PostSubject: Re: Dark Eldar: WS5/BS5 justified?   Sat May 28 2016, 10:31

A Kabalite should not have the same stat line as a Guardian.


Totally agree. Guardians are part time soldiers, it makes no sense at all.
Back to top Go down
Imateria
Sybarite
avatar

Posts : 379
Join date : 2016-02-06
Location : Birmingham

PostSubject: Re: Dark Eldar: WS5/BS5 justified?   Sat May 28 2016, 16:40

As far as Wyches Cults go, I've said before that it makes sense for Wyches and Bloodbrides to get a boost in WS and an extra Attack base with a Bladestorm like ability (not Rending, the idea of Wyches punching vehicles to death is silly) and Dodge applying to Overwatch. I feel this would match their fluff of being gladiators, you don't expect gladiators to be unskilled fighters, and ups their damage potential without making them OP for a 10pt model since they're still S and T 3. Doesn't make much sense in boosting Beastmasters with WS5 and Hellions are more street gangs and Reavers are more concerned with going fast and controlling their Jet Bikes than hand to hand combat. BS5 doesn't make much sense on any of them though.

With Kabalites, their supposed to be good but not special character good so I can't see a reason why they should be WS and BS 5. Trueborn should be BS5, maybe even have access to Ghostplate Armour as well, the idea of their sense of superiority resulting in not just access to better weapons but better training being a self fulfilling prophecy works quite nicely. I wouldn't want them to be WS5 though, I think it's better if their's a clear demarkation bettween the Kabalites being shooty and the Wyches being stabby.

Beyond that I can't really see any reasons why other units should get a boost in BS or WS. As far as our vehicles are concerned, I think I'd much prefer if they could be twin-linked than a higher BS.
Back to top Go down
The goat
Hellion
avatar

Posts : 52
Join date : 2016-06-01

PostSubject: Re: Dark Eldar: WS5/BS5 justified?   Wed Jun 01 2016, 13:01

I'm new so to it y you don't necessarily need to listen to me.

Wych cults I think should at least get a boost up their WS, maybe their BS. It would make sense that the Dark Eldar gladiators, who have to be skilled in bringing pain close up, would be better than Space marines in close combat. Dodge could maybe apply to overwatch, and maybe other shooting attacks, at a reduced 5+.

Another thing.

Guardians should get a reduced WS out kabalites should get an increased one. Otherwise nothing makes sense.
Back to top Go down
Azdrubael
Incubi
avatar

Posts : 1736
Join date : 2011-11-16
Location : Russia

PostSubject: Re: Dark Eldar: WS5/BS5 justified?   Fri Jun 03 2016, 12:02

I think both wyches and kabalites, should get +1 atack and their upgraded elite versions should be gone.

The price should be slightly higher, 1-2points and weapon options corresponding to bloodbrides and trueborns.

WS4 ispretty ok, its Space Marines level and it is very high. WS2 is skill level of untrained human conscript, WS3 is skill level of human trained several years, WS4 is exceptional and skill level achieved by genetic manipulation. DE get this level and they are absurdly more faster.

WS5 is pretty much you do nothing but train your whole life. Aspect Warriors and Incubi is the brightest example. DE dont train whole life, they are crazy hedonists who prefer raping and torturing to training. Wyches are border lining this, but i really dont think all of them are that good. Maybe some of them.

WS6 and more is singular figures in the universe, very rare and exceptional.

_________________
The Dance of Death begins - embraces, caresses, and kisses,
The Harlequin loves you as you fall over in pieces!
Back to top Go down
BetrayTheWorld
Trueborn
avatar

Posts : 2665
Join date : 2013-04-04

PostSubject: Re: Dark Eldar: WS5/BS5 justified?   Fri Jun 03 2016, 16:14

Azdrubael wrote:
I think both wyches and kabalites, should get +1 atack and their upgraded elite versions should be gone.

The price should be slightly higher, 1-2points and weapon options corresponding to bloodbrides and trueborns.

WS4 ispretty ok, its Space Marines level and it is very high. WS2 is skill level of untrained human conscript, WS3 is skill level of human trained several years, WS4 is exceptional and skill level achieved by genetic manipulation. DE get this level and they are absurdly more faster.

WS5 is pretty much you do nothing but train your whole life. Aspect Warriors and Incubi is the brightest example. DE dont train whole life, they are crazy hedonists who prefer raping and torturing to training. Wyches are border lining this, but i really dont think all of them are that good. Maybe some of them.

WS6 and more is singular figures in the universe, very rare and exceptional.

All of this is in relation to a human, though. DE don't HAVE to train every moment of their entire life because they live to be over 10,000 years old. In a thousand years, you can train 1/100th the amount of a grisled imperial guardsman captain who's been fighting battle after battle non-stop for the last 10 years, and still have an equal amount of training as he. If you kick that up to 2/100ths as often training, or 2%, and now you've doubled that same captain's experience and training, all while spending 98% of your time on leisure activities, like assault and torture.

And these are the NORMAL dark eldar. Not every dark eldar fits into one of our troop classes. There are civilians. A trained dark eldar soldier like a kabalite warrior or wych that routinely participates in raids would be far beyond that, I think.

_________________
Back to top Go down
Calyptra
Wych
avatar

Posts : 698
Join date : 2013-03-25
Location : Boston

PostSubject: Re: Dark Eldar: WS5/BS5 justified?   Sat Jun 04 2016, 08:10

Azdrubael wrote:
DE dont train whole life, they are crazy hedonists who prefer raping and torturing to training.

They do train their whole lives, because their lives depend upon it.

Quote :
The Dark Eldar quickly learn to fight with every weapon at their disposal, and to kill without mercy or hesitation. To do any less would lead them to a swift death...

Quote :
All Dark Eldar exhibit a predatory instinct that is otherworldly in intensity, and utterly necessary to their continued survival. In the Dark City, the incautious soon fall prey to their lethal peers.

_________________
Dark Eldar plog: Drug-Crazed Space Elves
Vampire Counts plog: Bat Country
Back to top Go down
Deathwasp11
Hellion
avatar

Posts : 42
Join date : 2016-02-09

PostSubject: Re: Dark Eldar: WS5/BS5 justified?   Sat Jun 04 2016, 09:09

I think it would be better to give wyches some somting to increase there ability to wound instead of ws5. For the army overall, I don't think we need a redesign, just undo the nerfs that were done with 7th, keep what is good from this codex, give us some decent formations besides coven, and we will be OK
Back to top Go down
Azdrubael
Incubi
avatar

Posts : 1736
Join date : 2011-11-16
Location : Russia

PostSubject: Re: Dark Eldar: WS5/BS5 justified?   Sat Jun 04 2016, 09:15

Quote :
All of this is in relation to a human, though.

In the logic of warhammer univers, we can. 10.000 years before 40k Space Marines with WS4 and BS4 pretty much cleansed entire universe of xenos, Eldar included, most smart of which dont get in the way. So this skill is way above normal, enough to kill all sentient life in the galaxy. And if you compare ours to theirs we are as skilled, but are faster.

Nowhere in fluff does it described as delicately perfect style that kills anyone with little defense in the way of counter moves and technique, barring succubus, Lelith and Incubi. It is described as untraceble by naked eye with speed that shocks.

Rulewise it is transforming for 5++ for all units if you ask me of pure dodge evasion. And more atacks.
I'd much prefer our power from pain made us faster, netting constant + to atacks, to movement and charge range. This sad FnP and Fearless just make fragile army a little less fragile.

Plus, as we all know we can relate anything to a Space Marines, they being a golden standart in 40k. Anything worse then them costs cheapers, and better then them costs more. Emprah didnt created them lacking.

Quote :
The Dark Eldar quickly learn to fight with every weapon at their disposal, and to kill without mercy or hesitation. To do any less would lead them to a swift death...

They fight and kill their whole lives, but in the way of constant training only Incubi do that. In temples originating in Aspect Warriors shrines, and those are like Samurai Dodjo's. From first hand experience fighting only improves you so much, real technique come from knowledge and practice. Someone must teach you, pass on knowledge.

_________________
The Dance of Death begins - embraces, caresses, and kisses,
The Harlequin loves you as you fall over in pieces!
Back to top Go down
BetrayTheWorld
Trueborn
avatar

Posts : 2665
Join date : 2013-04-04

PostSubject: Re: Dark Eldar: WS5/BS5 justified?   Sat Jun 04 2016, 19:33

Azdrubael wrote:

10.000 years before, 40k Space Marines with WS4 and BS4 pretty much cleansed entire universe of xenos, Eldar included, most smart of which dont get in the way. So this skill is way above normal, enough to kill all sentient life in the galaxy. And if you compare ours to theirs we are as skilled, but are faster.

Several points here:

1. Space marines are only a fragment of what they once were. The books say the gene seed is progressively weaker every time they use them, and that there are mutations that occur in the gene-seed over time. Earlier space marines were far greater than later ones. Proof: Every space marine left from that time period has a WS higher than 4.(If you argue that they were around for thousands of years to improve it, you prove the point for eldar/DE). This link has a list of all the chapters and the various mutations/flaws that their particular gene-seed suffers from: http://warhammer40k.wikia.com/wiki/Gene-Seed

2. The Eldar weren't brought down by the Space Marines. They were brought down by birthing a Chaos god who devoured the souls of the vast majority of their empire. Maybe the space marines won several battles during that time period against an occupied opponent, but claiming that they single-handedly cleansed the universe of Eldar is the equivalent to seeing Mike Tyson laying on the street after being beaten by a crowd of people, running up and kicking him, then claiming you kicked his butt.

3. The Space Marines are a stagnant empire who have largely lost access to much of the technology they previously had available to them. When an elite army conquers half the world with 2,000,000 disintegrator rifles, but then loses all but 20,000 of those rifles, you can't just assume they're just as badass as they were back then. That 1,980,000 rifles makes a difference.


Azdrubael wrote:
They fight and kill their whole lives, but in the way of constant training only Incubi do that. In temples originating in Aspect Warriors shrines, and those are like Samurai Dodjo's. From first hand experience fighting only improves you so much, real technique come from knowledge and practice. Someone must teach you, pass on knowledge.

Any real career soldier with a couple tours under his belt will tell you otherwise. You can have all the training in the world, but break at the first hint of real conflict. Real warriors are forged in war. And those who survive those battles DO get the training they need to improve. It's easy to recognise the survivor of 50 battles as a guy worth training.

_________________
Back to top Go down
stilgar27
Sybarite
avatar

Posts : 468
Join date : 2012-12-04

PostSubject: Re: Dark Eldar: WS5/BS5 justified?   Sat Jun 04 2016, 22:27

Just to get a little more specific about the degradation of space marines.   At the time of the first founding all marines could do things like... spit acid, block radiation, see in total darkness, remain alert at functioning while technically asleep, eat and survive off of literally anything, and absorb information from dead enemies.

As of m41, only the blood angels can even still produce all the of original 19 organelles of the emperor's template.  And while many of these abilities still persist (some have even become more pronounced), most chapters are missing quite a few of them.

Technology wise (and on the tabletop) it's not a whole lot better as 30k generally kicks 40k's butt.  The fire raptor is a pretty good example as it's commonplace in 30k, but a relic in 40k.  Stats wise it's a 4 HP av 12 flyer with hover and the ability to fire it's 23 shots (19 of which are twin linked) at up to 4 different units a turn.  It costs the same as a void raven with implosion missiles but included with the fire raptor are 4 better missiles, extra armor upgrade, and the strafing run rule.

But like Betray said - even with all those previous abilities and technologies - the emprah waited until the eldar empire completely imploded to launch his great crusade anyway.

As far as the dark eldar go - It's hard to compare "then" and "now".  I will say they have some of the most poorly representative rules for fluff in the 40k universe (along with orks and tyranids).  Equipment aside - soldiers which have fought for millennia and died dozens if not hundreds of times over should be nowhere near as susceptible to psychology as the dark kin are.  Nor should a race of powerful latent psykers, who's entire culture revolves around the suppression of psychic phenomena have no ability to do so on the table top.

With all the nerfs in the 7th edition codex, they could have at least thrown us a bone with stubborn and/or adamantium will.
Back to top Go down
Anggul
Sybarite
avatar

Posts : 318
Join date : 2011-06-22
Location : Southampton, England

PostSubject: Re: Dark Eldar: WS5/BS5 justified?   Sun Jun 05 2016, 22:02

Give wyches +1WS, they're meant to be immensely skilled. Don't give them rending, carving through squads of heavy infantry extremely quickly is the job of Incubi.


Make combat drugs give +1 to the PfP table. Rolling on a chart is always just going to have better or worse outcomes. Instead make it consistent.


Then condense the different kinds of wych weapon into one option called 'wych weapon' which grants re-roll hit and wound rolls of 1, i.e what a shardnet & impaler currently does. This means you can model them with whichever ones you want instead of only the best one. Having multiple types is pointless when one is always going to be best. Re-rolling all to hit or wound gets worse and loses value if your WS or strength increases. Re-rolling 1s is never wasted.


Altogether you're getting more hits because you're skilled, you're getting FnP and furious charge sooner because you're drugged up, and you're getting re-rolls which are just as useful regardless of whether you have furious charge yet.






Warriors? They don't need better BS, they need better guns. It's stupid that poison wounds everything on the same value. A weaker victim will be harmed more easily by the poison, it wouldn't wound a marine more easily than a guardsman, a marine is significantly more resilient to poison than a normal human, and it certainly wouldn't do anything to a wraithlord or something like that. They should have fairly high strength (5 perhaps?) that doesn't work against vehicles. What I'm saying is the poison rule needs re-writing.


This way warriors would be wounding guardsmen, tau, other eldar and such on 2+, then things like marines and medium-size tyranids on 3+, chunky things like grotesques, ogryns and chaos spawn on 4+, big beasties like carnifexes and the like on 5+, and so on. We would be much better against most non-vehicles which is what warriors need, just as good against slightly tougher things, and slightly worse against really big stuff but I think that's well worth the trade.

_________________
"Oh how awful, did he at least die painlessly? To shreds you say? Well, how's his Dracon holding up? To shreds you say? Very well then... Sad, sad, terrible gruesome news about my colleague Archon Mhu'bhutu." - 'The Feather', Dracon of the Bladed Lotus
Back to top Go down
BetrayTheWorld
Trueborn
avatar

Posts : 2665
Join date : 2013-04-04

PostSubject: Re: Dark Eldar: WS5/BS5 justified?   Sun Jun 05 2016, 22:31

Anggul wrote:
Give wyches +1WS, they're meant to be immensely skilled. Don't give them rending, carving through squads of heavy infantry extremely quickly is the job of Incubi.

Most of what you said made sense, but I don't agree with this part. Rending on wyches wouldn't make them "carve through squads of heavy infantry extremely quickly". If you just made wyches WS5 and gave them rending, Incubi would still kill anything up to T5 with 2+ or 3+ armour better than wyches.

What rending would do for wyches is this: It'd make them be able to do what they do in the fluff. The fluff behind DE wyches is that they're pitted against some of the most dangerous creatures in the galaxy in the arenas, like a single wych taking on a carnifex for sport. Even with rending, most of the time in such a matchup, the carnifex is going to wreck that wych. But rending represents that chance that the wych puts on a REALLY good showing, and manages a fantastic move that actually hurts such a creature. Basically, it will allow wyches to have the POTENTIAL to hurt big, tough beasties, which is what they fight in the arenas, so they SHOULD have that potential.

Incubi would still be far better than wyches against Bike Marines, Marines, Terminators, etc.

Incubi would be the better dualists against elite infantry.
Wyches would be the better trophy fighters against beasts and monsters.

As it should be. Wink


While we're on the topic though, I do think Incubi need a points drop(17ppm sounds good), and some way to get access to grenades, even if it takes a special character. The old phantasm grenade launchers that gave the entire squad grenades was so much better than the current one.

_________________
Back to top Go down
The Strange Dark One
Sybarite
avatar

Posts : 423
Join date : 2014-08-22
Location : Private subrealm of the Eldritch Skies Kabal.

PostSubject: Re: Dark Eldar: WS5/BS5 justified?   Mon Jun 06 2016, 01:17

@Anggul WS5 wouldn't do much on its own and as for Rending, most are not talking about Rending per se, but a "rending like" effect that. You cannot compare guaranteed AP2 of Incubi with Rending which only ever does something useful on a 6.

Nonetheless, right now a problem is that you pay too much for a unit which deals laughable damage and is killed way too fast. They should be improved in 2 areas. In any case it is necessary to make them deal more damage, I don't care what you give them as long as they can take off wounds reliably.

Personally, I'd prefer seeing a rule on Wyches which forces enemies to reroll successful armor saves, as it would be similarly effective to rending but it would not scale that much when fighting AP2 targets.

But still leaves the issue of them still being just fragile to shooting and overwatch. I'd either suggest simply making them cheaper, so they can be used as a cheap tarpit unit or something to neglect Overwatch. Personally, I'd just like to see them getting a fair deal cheaper.


And you really want to remove one of our best weapons from the game and replace it with an above-average Bolter... wow. I am all for having better means of dealing with lower toughness enemies, but I think DE in general desperately need more (valid) weapons to choose from.

This could start with making the Shredder a template weapon, adding Disintegrator Carbines (AP2, S5, Assault 2) and I am all for giving basic troops a "Bolteresque" weapon that messes with enemy leadership. Maybe S4, AP5, Pinning?

Same in the heavy weapons department, Lances and Haywire nicely cover high AV value targets, but we need something that is similarly effective as Scatter Lasers. And please drop the prices of Trueborn and make them able to take all Special Weapons.
I want to DS my Melta filled Raider without resorting to Craftworlders...

_________________
Discontinued: Dark Eldar 7th Codex Redux
A pragmatic custom codex for pragmatic realspace raiders.
Back to top Go down
BetrayTheWorld
Trueborn
avatar

Posts : 2665
Join date : 2013-04-04

PostSubject: Re: Dark Eldar: WS5/BS5 justified?   Mon Jun 06 2016, 01:29

The Strange Dark One wrote:

Personally, I'd prefer seeing a rule on Wyches which forces enemies to reroll successful armor saves, as it would be similarly effective to rending but it would not scale that much when fighting AP2 targets.

The problem with that is they still wouldn't be able to hurt most MCs, which are the types of things they say they fight in the arenas. Rending simply fits the bill.

_________________
Back to top Go down
Rokuro
Wych
avatar

Posts : 619
Join date : 2014-11-25

PostSubject: Re: Dark Eldar: WS5/BS5 justified?   Mon Jun 06 2016, 07:11

Anggul wrote:
Give wyches +1WS, they're meant to be immensely skilled. Don't give them rending, carving through squads of heavy infantry extremely quickly is the job of Incubi.
Keep in mind that Wyches aren't elite fighters, they are just the cannon fodder of the Cults.
I think WS 5 is justified for Bloodbrides though, as they are a league ahead of normal Wyches.

WS/BS 4 is already expert-level for humans, and Eldar are that good by nature. Dark Eldar already have higher Initiative and Night Vision to represent their superior senses, but them having peak-level human and above average Eldar skill by default, before adding any artificially enhancing effects from drugs and such, would really be stretching what they are supposedly capable of.
Back to top Go down
Anggul
Sybarite
avatar

Posts : 318
Join date : 2011-06-22
Location : Southampton, England

PostSubject: Re: Dark Eldar: WS5/BS5 justified?   Mon Jun 06 2016, 09:14

The Strange Dark One wrote:
And you really want to remove one of our best weapons from the game and replace it with an above-average Bolter... wow. I am all for having better means of dealing with lower toughness enemies, but I think DE in general desperately need more (valid) weapons to choose from.


One of our best? I find splinter rifles to be pretty crappy, there's a reason it's better to just cram in as many venoms as possible. Making them S5 against non-vehicles would make more sense fluff-wise and make them better against the vast majority of their intended targets.

I agree that we need to fix the swathe of mediocre anti-infantry weapons though. Shredders, liquifiers, stinger pods, flyer missiles, void mines, disintegrators, they're all so 'meh'.

_________________
"Oh how awful, did he at least die painlessly? To shreds you say? Well, how's his Dracon holding up? To shreds you say? Very well then... Sad, sad, terrible gruesome news about my colleague Archon Mhu'bhutu." - 'The Feather', Dracon of the Bladed Lotus
Back to top Go down
Kehmor
Kabalite Warrior
avatar

Posts : 128
Join date : 2016-03-30

PostSubject: Re: Dark Eldar: WS5/BS5 justified?   Mon Jun 06 2016, 11:59

I'd be happy if they just gave wyches poison attacks and reduced invuln save outside combat (like 5++ increased to 4++ in combat)
Back to top Go down
Sarkesian
Kabalite Warrior
avatar

Posts : 117
Join date : 2016-01-12
Location : Utah

PostSubject: Re: Dark Eldar: WS5/BS5 justified?   Mon Jun 06 2016, 17:56

What I find our codex lacks is no easy way to deal with 4+ saves. We have some AP2 with lances, dissies, and Incubi. We have AP3 with power weapons and agonizers. Why not give wyches AP4 to deal with Tau or anything else with that armor save. Or change Hellions. I always felt Hellions should be AP4 with those hellglaives anyways.

You could erase the Wyches as troops and move them to elite and move wracks to core troops instead. In the elite slot they could add more special rules than they could to a troop choice and justify the cost.
Back to top Go down
Anggul
Sybarite
avatar

Posts : 318
Join date : 2011-06-22
Location : Southampton, England

PostSubject: Re: Dark Eldar: WS5/BS5 justified?   Mon Jun 06 2016, 19:49

Sarkesian wrote:
You could erase the Wyches as troops and move them to elite and move wracks to core troops instead. In the elite slot they could add more special rules than they could to a troop choice and justify the cost.


I think they should erase bloodbrides and just have wyches with the two attacks and WS5. It isn't a big deal to have that as troops really, harlequins do after all. The thing with having bloodbrides exist is that it's either worth upgrading to them or it isn't. Either way wyches or bloodbrides are more worth taking, you will never have them both valid. Just make it one unit.

_________________
"Oh how awful, did he at least die painlessly? To shreds you say? Well, how's his Dracon holding up? To shreds you say? Very well then... Sad, sad, terrible gruesome news about my colleague Archon Mhu'bhutu." - 'The Feather', Dracon of the Bladed Lotus
Back to top Go down
BetrayTheWorld
Trueborn
avatar

Posts : 2665
Join date : 2013-04-04

PostSubject: Re: Dark Eldar: WS5/BS5 justified?   Tue Jun 07 2016, 01:25

Rokuro wrote:

Keep in mind that Wyches aren't elite fighters, they are just the cannon fodder of the Cults.

I'm pretty sure the fluff presents it as the exact opposite of this, that wyches are the premier hand-to-hand combatants of commoragh.

Just because they're a troops choice doesn't make them fodder. Not every "troop" needs to be fodder, just like not every army should HAVE fodder. Eldar shouldn't, really, based on their fluff, though guardians tend to fit that bill. Not that anyone really uses them.

_________________
Back to top Go down
The goat
Hellion
avatar

Posts : 52
Join date : 2016-06-01

PostSubject: Re: Dark Eldar: WS5/BS5 justified?   Wed Jun 08 2016, 20:15

Rending would work... but it would maybe be better to give them a special rule that works there same way but not against vehicles. You can then take an upgrade that allows this.
Back to top Go down
Sarkesian
Kabalite Warrior
avatar

Posts : 117
Join date : 2016-01-12
Location : Utah

PostSubject: Re: Dark Eldar: WS5/BS5 justified?   Wed Jun 08 2016, 21:34

Rending would be nice but it feels too powerful on an unit that is meant to fight against infantry and creatures.

What about something like: On a Natural Roll of a 6, Wyches ignore armor saves of MC.
Hydra Gauntlets: Shred, +d3A
Shardnet and Impaler: AP3, Enemy has -1A if *hit* by a model with this weapon
Razorflails: d3 wounds on MC

Sure this makes them a pretty niche unit, but with all the MC's running around, this could make them a bit more focused on what to attack.



Back to top Go down
 
Dark Eldar: WS5/BS5 justified?
View previous topic View next topic Back to top 
Page 2 of 3Go to page : Previous  1, 2, 3  Next

Permissions in this forum:You cannot reply to topics in this forum
THE DARK CITY :: 

GENERAL DARK ELDAR DISCUSSION

 :: Dark Eldar Discussion
-
Jump to: