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Jimsolo
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PostSubject: Anyone else going to Gencon?   Mon May 16 2016, 20:07

Any fellow denizens of the dark city headed to Gencon this year? Anyone maybe interested in a pick up game?
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BetrayTheWorld
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PostSubject: Re: Anyone else going to Gencon?   Mon May 16 2016, 20:23

Do they just have empty, free space for people to play? Looking over the events, it doesn't seem like there are any miniatures events at all, outside of some painting workshops...

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mrmagoo
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PostSubject: Re: Anyone else going to Gencon?   Mon May 16 2016, 20:58

HMMM That is only 3.5 Hours from me. Well its to late for me, but I am going to be watching for next year though.

Betraytheworld
looks like there is a ITC Event, looks like 5 Rounds over 2 days. But if I am reading this correctly there are only 3 people signed up? 50 Slots and 47 free? Am I reading that wrong?


https://www.gencon.com/events/85420
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Jimsolo
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PostSubject: Re: Anyone else going to Gencon?   Mon May 16 2016, 21:19

You read correctly. There is also a 40k Apoc game running several times.

@BetrayTheWorld wrote:
Do they just have empty, free space for people to play? Looking over the events, it doesn't seem like there are any miniatures events at all, outside of some painting workshops...

There's always a blank table or two. Cancelled events are an inevitability at a con. If I have a game set up with some Denizens, I'll probably bring my own sawhorses/tables/terrain, so even if table space is limited, a pick up game can still happen.
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BetrayTheWorld
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PostSubject: Re: Anyone else going to Gencon?   Mon May 16 2016, 23:13

I'll see what I can work out and shoot you a PM if I can make it. How much is the basic gencon badge for the event?

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Jimsolo
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PostSubject: Re: Anyone else going to Gencon?   Mon May 16 2016, 23:17

$55/day pre reg, $75 at the door.

A 4 day pass is $90/$120, respectively.
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CptMetal
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PostSubject: Re: Anyone else going to Gencon?   Mon May 16 2016, 23:46

Only 5 rounds? So basically nothing to worry about regarding the opposition.

Good luck anyway!

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Jimsolo
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PostSubject: Re: Anyone else going to Gencon?   Mon May 16 2016, 23:48

@CptMetal wrote:
Only 5 rounds? So basically nothing to worry about regarding the opposition.

Good luck anyway!

Come again? I'm afraid I don't follow.
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PostSubject: Re: Anyone else going to Gencon?   Mon May 16 2016, 23:57

@BetrayTheWorld wrote:
Meh, there were 30 players in this tournament. My local tournaments get to the 30's. Hardly worthy of an "International" title.

While I'd be interested in seeing his list as well, even winning this isn't nearly as impressive to me as placing in the top 30 of a major tournament like the BAO or LVO that has 200-300 players.



Link to the tournament info:
http://snbattlereports.com/2016/02/11/no-retreat-2-40k-international-tournament-rules-info/

Sorry, I was being sarcastic. I think every tournament is a competitive setting until otherwise agreed upon and I wish you the best of luck for your real space raid!

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BetrayTheWorld
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PostSubject: Re: Anyone else going to Gencon?   Tue May 17 2016, 00:36

@CptMetal wrote:
@BetrayTheWorld wrote:
Meh, there were 30 players in this tournament. My local tournaments get to the 30's. Hardly worthy of an "International" title.

While I'd be interested in seeing his list as well, even winning this isn't nearly as impressive to me as placing in the top 30 of a major tournament like the BAO or LVO that has 200-300 players.



Link to the tournament info:
http://snbattlereports.com/2016/02/11/no-retreat-2-40k-international-tournament-rules-info/

Sorry, I was being sarcastic. I think every tournament is a competitive setting until otherwise agreed upon and I wish you the best of luck for your real space raid!

Metal, have you ever played in a tournament with 200+ people?

Because I get the sense that you don't fully understand what I meant by that, since you felt the need to post it from another thread from like a week or so ago. In order to win, or get in the top 10% of such a tournament, every nuance of your play is measured through a series of metrics that determine your overall placement within that field, from win/loss ratio, to battle points, to strength of schedule, to other intricacies.

Winning a 30 man tournament that has 5 rounds simply IS NOT as competitive as getting in the final 6 of a 200 man tournament that has a 5 round qualifier. In the first case, you're likely to win simply by winning 5 times in a row. In the latter case, it's not enough to simply win. You have to win perfectly, 5 times in a row. You have to embarassingly defeat your opponent so completely that there is no doubt you offered nothing but complete domination. You have to shut them out. 30 points to ZERO type games. 5 Times in a row. And this is with swiss pairings, meaning that the 4th and 5th guys you face will have ALSO won 3 or 4 games in a row perfectly, so you can't just get lucky opponent draws all the way through the tournament.
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As an example:

I won every single tournament that was held by one of my local gaming clubs over a 6 month period(4 tournaments). Each tournament had 16 players in it(was a smaller club). I don't consider that to be that big of an accomplishment, even though I won it 4 times in a row.

It's simply not the level of competition you get when there are hundreds of people vying for the title. I've won about 90% of the local tournaments I've ever been to, but I've yet to win a GT, though I've placed in the top 10-20% of every one I've entered in the "best general" category.
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People generally don't like to hear things like this. I don't know if it's jealousy or contempt for some other reason, but either way, it's illogical. They should WANT to know the experience of sources that they speak to on the internet. I know I do. If someone has a pedigree or credentials from continued success in tournaments, I would love to hear about it. There are a lot of trash posts on the internet. Knowing who's posts to skim over, and who's to stop and read can be an incredible time-saver in my search for knowledge and experience.

There are members of this website that know me IRL that have played with me or around me a LOT, and can attest that they have never seen me lose a tournament(I'll let them speak up if they want to). When I know of other players that also do very well competitively, I tend to look out for posts from those players, and try to glean a bit of wisdom from their words.

Other people, it seems, decide to get butthurt and sarcastic, trying to tear someone down at every opportunity instead of trying to learn what they can from them. It's no wonder, then, that many of the top tournament players rarely identify themselves online at all, much less on forums like this. It's lose-lose.

The silent majority that take what you give them and use it end up being the latest up and comers that you have to defeat in the national tournament scene, rarely showing gratitude of any kind, while the vocal minority trashes you for being vain in your attempt to identify yourself with your credentials. No one slams a Doctor for putting his diploma on the wall so that you know he's a real doctor. Why should people slam someone for likewise putting his/her tournament credentials on display so that they know the advice they're recieving isn't from some two-bit clown?
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If you don't think my input has value to you, feel free to ignore it. But this post represents the last time you'll get a direct rise out of me in response to your nonsense.

/EndRant

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Jimsolo
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PostSubject: Re: Anyone else going to Gencon?   Tue May 17 2016, 01:08

I think the problem is that while you intend to be frank and informative, you can sometimes come off as confrontational.

@BetrayTheWorld wrote:
Meh, there were 30 players in this tournament. My local tournaments get to the 30's. Hardly worthy of an "International" title.

While I'd be interested in seeing his list as well, even winning this isn't nearly as impressive to me as placing in the top 30 of a major tournament like the BAO or LVO that has 200-300 players.

The language here seems extremely condescending. (I don't think there's a word or phrase more rudely dismissive than 'meh.') It's hard not to get the impression that you're trying to be derogatory. (That was my first reading, as well, for what it's worth.)

For a long time, I thought you had a problem with me, because it seemed like you always responded to everything I said with derision. It's only been very recently that I've realized you don't see it that way. I can ignore it, (you're far from the most extreme example of this in the online OR real world wargaming circles I'm part of) but I can also see how someone might misconstrue what you're saying.

As to the doctor analogy, let me offer two real world examples. Example one, my son's pediatrician: she is a doctor, and has credentials on the wall. She never mentions them, doesn't condescend to me, and doesn't preface her advice (or corrections, when I am wrong) by reminding me that she is better trained and educated than I am.

Example two: a doctor who lives in my town. She butts in to private conversations to offer unsolicited advice (even on topics unrelated to her specialization). When she gets into any kind of argument, she insists on reminding the other party that she "should know better, because [she's] a doctor."

The first doctor is far more likely to be heeded than the second.

In any event, apologies if I've offended.
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BetrayTheWorld
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PostSubject: Re: Anyone else going to Gencon?   Tue May 17 2016, 04:12

@Jimsolo wrote:
I think the problem is that while you intend to be frank and informative, you can sometimes come off as confrontational.

I type in a very matter-of-fact manner, and don't take time to add in a whole lot of niceties, I agree. Though, for those who know how much content I churn out, I don't think you could really blame me. I don't have time to add more bloat to my already verbose posts.
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@Jimsolo wrote:
The language here seems extremely condescending.  (I don't think there's a word or phrase more rudely dismissive than 'meh.')

It was when we were talking about a random internet personality, who was not a member of this site at the time. Turns out, he joined immediately after seeing the thread about him, and he's an extremely cool guy. I never would have said "Meh" at an individual's accomplishment. But when it's not an individual who's a member of the conversation, "Meh" was an appropriate response to convey that I didn't feel that result was representative of some shift in the meta where DE were suddenly competitive. I went on to point out that it was a result in a smaller tournament rather than a large GT, like the name "International" would imply.

At the time I made the comment, it would have been like discussing 2 pro baseball players, 1 a top tier player, and 1 middle of the road, and me saying "Meh" to the second guy getting MVP in an exibition game. You can't have Pete Rose to show up the next day and say, "So...heard you didn't think my MVP award was that impressive", then act like the guy who said "Meh" was some sort of jackass. Comparitively, statistically, being dismissive is the correct behavior in such a scenario when making a point that said accomplishment doesn't change the environment of the sport.
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@Jimsolo wrote:
The first doctor is far more likely to be heeded than the second. In any event, apologies if I've offended.

I never felt like you offended me. My last post was almost solely directed towards Metal, who constantly wants to fight every opinion or fact I post.

However, in the scenario you put forth, I think it would be far closer to reality if the second doctor who always interjected her opinion only did so regarding her own medical expertise.

I think it'd pose an impossible task to find posts from me in the realspace lounge, or the project logs section, or any other section NOT directly involving 40k tactics, where I am doing anything other than praising other people's work.

But you're probably right. I should probably just post my tournament record in my signature, and never mention it in a post. People who care can see it. People who don't can ignore it. But in an online format, it's lose-lose with things like that, because people who get offended at other people's success will ALWAYS be offended at other people's success, whether it's directly stated or posted on the wall(signature).

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PostSubject: Re: Anyone else going to Gencon?   Tue May 17 2016, 04:34

Back to the topic at hand, namely Gen Con, I think I'd like to see if I can make a go of it with a Freakshow.

As much as a 50 man tournament may not be the LVO or some other 200 man shindig, it IS far more competitive than the run-of-the-mill local event, where you're looking at 8-24 people. I would be very excited to give the Freakshow a shot in a competitive setting. (Call it the minors, if you like--still a step up from college ball.)

To that end, I'm debating lists. Stop on by my thread over here and tell me what you think.
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