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amishprn86
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PostSubject: Re: More Strategy - Less Crying   Wed May 11 2016, 16:09

Its been said once, but Im saying it again.

These FAQ's are a draft and currently not official, so remember anything can change still.
We also dont have our DE FAQs which IMO are very important, the right thing changed could mean the difference in everything, Example Imagine 2 of the Missiles are no longer blasts, or Splinter Racks now fire at full BS even if Jinking.

Im not saying they will be these but its just that we dont know what the FAQ's for DE will bring.


Onto tactics, if the FAQs stay the same as they are now I personally will be doing MSU with Multi CAD's of Venoms, Warriors, Reavers, Scourges and CtC. I'll be looking at taking 3man Grots or Incubi in Raiders too.

Tho DE are my favorite I actually stopped playing them awhile ago, I still enjoy them enough to talk about them and help others. I honestly couldnt bring myself to play them anymore b.c the area Im in is EXTREMELY competitive.

ALot of the tactics you guys are talking about (Dropping warriors on objectives in cover) would never work, with all the Ignore cover and the Eldar/SM/Tau/Necons players playing WAAC lists I was lucky to win with at least 10% my army left on the table, and even luckier to kill at least 50% their armies.

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BetrayTheWorld
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PostSubject: Re: More Strategy - Less Crying   Wed May 11 2016, 16:22

Skulnbonz wrote:

covens- nerf (due to ld bubble not working in transports anymore)
and on and on.

Well, to be fair, the transports themselves have the negative leadership bubble, so that isn't really a nerf to the covens formations. But other than that, I completely agree with your analysis. If it all stays as is, DE definitely get the short end of the stick, as usual. I'm waiting for the final draft of the FAQ before I worry too much, though.[/quote]

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The Shredder
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PostSubject: Re: More Strategy - Less Crying   Wed May 11 2016, 16:22

With regard to the wyches vs warriors thing, I'd keep using warriors if only because they're 1pt cheaper per model. Wink
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PostSubject: Re: More Strategy - Less Crying   Wed May 11 2016, 16:23

The Shredder wrote:
With regard to the wyches vs warriors thing, I'd keep using warriors if only because they're 1pt cheaper per model. Wink

2 points cheaper. Very Happy

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PostSubject: Re: More Strategy - Less Crying   Wed May 11 2016, 22:07

amishprn86 wrote:

Im not saying they will be these but its just that we dont know what the FAQ's for DE will bring.

Yeah, the DE FAQ will be the kicker.

amishprn86 wrote:
Onto tactics, if the FAQs stay the same as they are now I personally will be doing MSU with Multi CAD's of Venoms, Warriors, Reavers, Scourges and CtC. I'll be looking at taking 3man Grots or Incubi in Raiders too.

Me too and have been for some time. I wanted to try something different from my usual skimmer spam.

amishprn86 wrote:
ALot of the tactics you guys are talking about (Dropping warriors on objectives in cover) would never work, with all the Ignore cover and the Eldar/SM/Tau/Necons players playing WAAC lists I was lucky to win with at least 10% my army left on the table, and even luckier to kill at least 50% their armies.

If he's got LOS (or stupid freakin tau SMS) and he wants you off that obj the warriors are toast. Sad
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amishprn86
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PostSubject: Re: More Strategy - Less Crying   Wed May 11 2016, 22:36

Tau new MC stealth Unit is AMAZING!!!

It makes me want to play Tau honestly, and im thinking about it (Gundam style, Gundam models is what got me 1st into Warhammer modelling something like 20yrs ago haha)

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BetrayTheWorld
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PostSubject: Re: More Strategy - Less Crying   Wed May 11 2016, 23:53

If you end up wanting to switch to Tau, I might be willing to swap/sell you an army, depending on what DE stuff you have to trade. I have like 3000 points worth of Tau or so. Maybe more. I'm in Ohio too, so we'd probably just be able to physically swap stuff. PM me later if you're interested.

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PostSubject: Re: More Strategy - Less Crying   Thu May 12 2016, 00:11

I'm going to keep playing msu with eldar support. In my experience the warriors on my venoms arnt really hurt by the FAQ that much, I'm usually outside of there 24 inch range to avoid enemy fire.

On the episode of splintermind about competive play one of the gust (I can't remember who it was I will relisten to that episode tonight) gave the advice "stop jinking" the idea is that something that jinked isn't shooting affectively, and we need all our units shooting every turn.
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PostSubject: Re: More Strategy - Less Crying   Thu May 12 2016, 01:07

A dark Eldar FAQ will not rewrite our poorly written rules, it will clear up ambiguous and possible loopholes in our codex specific rules.
There will not be a FAQ with any kind of point reduction
There will not be a FAQ giving a unit (incubi) assault grenades

Faq's will state weather the shadowfield is popped if a FNP is made, it will clear up weather a raider autoscatters ala drop pod, it will even possibly let us know if we can take a court without an archon..

But it will not make our army "better" or "more playable".
I really wish it would, but I think a lot of people will be disappointed at exactly how little will be done with a Dark Eldar FAQ.

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amishprn86
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PostSubject: Re: More Strategy - Less Crying   Thu May 12 2016, 01:10

Skulnbonz wrote:
A dark Eldar FAQ will not rewrite our poorly written rules, it will clear up ambiguous and possible loopholes in our codex specific rules.
There will not be a FAQ with any kind of point reduction
There will not be a FAQ giving a unit (incubi) assault grenades

Faq's will state weather the shadowfield is popped if a FNP is made, it will clear up weather a raider autoscatters ala drop pod, it will even possibly let us know if we can take a court without an archon..

But it will not make our army "better" or "more playable".
I really wish it would, but I think a lot of people will be disappointed at exactly how little will be done with a Dark Eldar FAQ.

Many older faqs tho DID do these things, 1 example is Hellbrute cost was cheaper.

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PostSubject: Re: More Strategy - Less Crying   Thu May 12 2016, 04:28

Azdrubael wrote:
Quote :
Third:
Most enemy flyers are having a hard time hitting our skimmers now! That is awesome! Maybe we'll see less flyers now so if we use them we got air superiority pretty easily.

There isnt such rule, only Fighters in Death from the Skier are affected that way, in trade off they get Skyfire. All bombers and atack craft still batter our skimmers with impunity at full BS. They dont get some bonuses from Atack Patterns however, those that directrly mentions Ground Targets. But there isnt rule that states -1BS on ground targets.

And i hoping there is more flyers - we can kill em much easier.
Skyfire - A model with this special rule, or that is firing a weapon with this special rule, fires using its normal Ballistic Skill when shooting at Flyers, Flying Monstrous Creatures, and Skimmers.

Death from above 6th edition page 58 - Zooming Flyers with the Fighter Combat role can choose whether or not to enter skyfire mode at the start of each shooting phase.  If they do, all weapons they fire that phase are treated as having the Skyfire Special rule (See Warhammer 40,000: The Rules).

I'm pretty sure that either circumvents or supersedes the penalty vs "ground targets".  Keeping skimmers firmly as the "most vulnerabilities" champions of 40k.
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PostSubject: Re: More Strategy - Less Crying   Thu May 12 2016, 06:42

I recall in a past version of the SM codex (I believe 6E) the Command Squad did not have access to special weapons (plasma guns, etc), but in the FAQ they added that you were in fact able to take special weapons for the point cost listed.

Because of this, I think anything is possible with a FAQ. Saying "Incubi have assault grenades" is hardly more of a change.

None the less, Im surprised that no one has found any buffs other than to the razorwing...
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PostSubject: Re: More Strategy - Less Crying   Thu May 12 2016, 07:31

Honestly Grav is even more deadly against us, no one is talking about that, but 2 hits with the same grav unit now does 3 HP's, used to be if you are immobile it did an additional HP, if the grav did hit you it would "then" make you immobile.

I know it doesnt sound like a lot, but its 1 less dice they have to roll to wreck us.

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PostSubject: Re: More Strategy - Less Crying   Thu May 12 2016, 08:18

Amishprn86, grav always did 3 HP with 2 hits (first one did 1HP and immobilized, second did 1HP then a second HP for double immobilized = 3HP). At least in every game I have ever played.

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PostSubject: Re: More Strategy - Less Crying   Thu May 12 2016, 09:05

fisheyes wrote:
Amishprn86, grav always did 3 HP with 2 hits (first one did 1HP and immobilized, second did 1HP then a second HP for double immobilized = 3HP). At least in every game I have ever played.


The couple tournies I did manage to go to (nothing to large) didnt play that way.

It was Vehicle chart results happened Based off of Profiles, Grav had the same profile so it all happened at the same time.

I knew people played it both ways and never argued it either way.

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PostSubject: Re: More Strategy - Less Crying   Fri May 13 2016, 17:25

Grave Weapons. Sigh. The re-rolling thing is what I dont like. They have a build in limitation which they then take away by letting it re-roll to wound and such. Meh. I think they went one step too far on Grav. Instead of being another tool, it kinda ascended to "Why would you not" status. "auto include" type things are bad for games in general.

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The Shredder
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PostSubject: Re: More Strategy - Less Crying   Fri May 13 2016, 17:52

Unorthodoxy wrote:
Grave Weapons.  Sigh.  The re-rolling thing is what I dont like.  They have a build in limitation which they then take away by letting it re-roll to wound and such.  Meh.  I think they went one step too far on Grav.  Instead of being another tool, it kinda ascended to "Why would you not" status.  "auto include" type things are bad for games in general.

The issue with Grav is that it's super effective against far too many things and has virtually no downsides:

- Unlike poison, it works on GCs.
- Unlike poison/fleshbane, it can hurt and destroy vehicles.
- Unlike most poison/fleshbane, it's AP2.
- Unlike Melta, Lascannons, Lances and similar weapons, it has the number of shots to put a serious number of wounds on infantry and MCs.
- Unlike virtually every other weapon out there, Grav Cannons get automatic rerolls to-wound.
etc.
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PostSubject: Re: More Strategy - Less Crying   Fri May 13 2016, 18:22

The Shredder wrote:
Unorthodoxy wrote:
Grave Weapons.  Sigh.  The re-rolling thing is what I dont like.  They have a build in limitation which they then take away by letting it re-roll to wound and such.  Meh.  I think they went one step too far on Grav.  Instead of being another tool, it kinda ascended to "Why would you not" status.  "auto include" type things are bad for games in general.

The issue with Grav is that it's super effective against far too many things and has virtually no downsides:

- Unlike poison, it works on GCs.
- Unlike poison/fleshbane, it can hurt and destroy vehicles.
- Unlike most poison/fleshbane, it's AP2.
- Unlike Melta, Lascannons, Lances and similar weapons, it has the number of shots to put a serious number of wounds on infantry and MCs.
- Unlike virtually every other weapon out there, Grav Cannons get automatic rerolls to-wound.
etc.

All true but at least it's balanced out nicely by every faction having easy access to it. Oh wait....

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PostSubject: Re: More Strategy - Less Crying   Fri May 13 2016, 19:16

Count Adhemar wrote:

All true but at least it's balanced out nicely by every faction having easy access to it. Oh wait....

lol!

But yeah, that's one of the reasons why I hate seeing people defending Grav by saying it 'balances Gargantuan Creatures'.
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PostSubject: Re: More Strategy - Less Crying   Fri May 13 2016, 19:19

The Shredder wrote:
Count Adhemar wrote:

All true but at least it's balanced out nicely by every faction having easy access to it. Oh wait....

lol!

But yeah, that's one of the reasons why I hate seeing people defending Grav by saying it 'balances Gargantuan Creatures'.

But don't you understand, they need it to destroy our Gargan... oh wait...
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PostSubject: Re: More Strategy - Less Crying   Fri May 13 2016, 20:43

...too soon...

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PostSubject: Re: More Strategy - Less Crying   Sat May 14 2016, 20:48

While I'm sad about not being able to deepstrike fire dragons anymore to help with my anti-armor, I think the changes will just encourage me to run the crimson hunter formation instead to assist (slightly worse against ground armor, but much better against air targets and I've been fighting a lot of flyrants lately). This gives me more fast attack slots to bring razorwing jetfighters, reavers, and scourges too.

The jinking change had me pretty down at first, but I was always more a fan of venoms than gunboats anyways. Now I just plan on taking my chances with the flickerfield saves more often so in a way I'll end up with more firepower from not snapshooting the venoms as much. I'll be more cautious about securing 4+ cover saves when I can too which isn't hard to do with 36" range.
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PostSubject: Re: More Strategy - Less Crying   Sat May 14 2016, 22:18

Tested new FAQs and Flier rules, I won against Super Friends like (Librarian conclave with melee teleporting units with 2+ 3++ Reroll Saves with FnP)

I only killed the Tax units of Scouts and 4 other Marines in the 20man Super Friends unit.

But I won easily, I had 5 Venoms 5mans +blaster, 5 Reavers, CtC and Razorwing.

Round 1 and 2 I had my CtC hold up his Super unit while Venoms and Reavers Spread out and killed his 2 other units, I tried to make sure ALL my units was about 12-18" away from each other, b.c he moves 12" has 20man units 6 of them are IC, Hit and Run, Powers, can teleport, etc.. etc.. etc..

I won by playing smart, this list was a winning list at Adepticon.

DE are good at playing the Objections, tho if I went again another MSU army I think I would have lost.

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PostSubject: Re: More Strategy - Less Crying   Sat May 14 2016, 22:47

How did you deal with the ID from his death star?
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PostSubject: Re: More Strategy - Less Crying   Sun May 15 2016, 01:53

Skulnbonz wrote:

It is sad to note that wyches, though actually nerfed with this faq, were nerfed so much less than other units it seems like they got a buff. That is the epitome of rising up by tearing others down Laughing

Laughing

yeah wyches got a "buff". they took our whole unit haywire and made it 1 per unit first. now they're doing it to everyone else. too bad we lost the plasma grenades but meehh, couple of S4 at minimum AV10 is meehh  Razz

on the tactics topic, you were the one with all the raiders/venoms no ravagers list right ?
Isnt that our best list at the moment. Spamming raiders with some venoms, flodding the enemy. MSU has been the thing, now more so. Min/max to the max for the best list. Everything taken AS cheap AS possible and multiple detachements to be able to get transports without passengers Cool

I have been thinking how funny it would be to take only warriors in any list. it would be totally opposite to the all AV list of transports but a DE horde of 100-200 cabbies would be pretty insane lol!
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