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BetrayTheWorld
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PostSubject: Re: More Strategy - Less Crying   Fri May 20 2016, 18:31

@amishprn86 wrote:
Well my ravagers never do anything but die,

If that's true, it's because your opponents recognise them as the threat they are and focus them with their target priority. Act accordingly with deployment and such.

I always (previously)put my ravagers on the top level of ruins if possible, to give them elevation, a good view of the field with their 36" range guns, and a cover save. If they're even remotely close to the middle of your deployment zone, in almost all deployment types, they cover the majority of the field with their range. Meaning you don't have to ever move them for most of the game, and never have to take a dangerous terrain roll.

AV11 with a 4+ cover save is pretty solid, and not that easy to kill.

Alternatively, if such a location isn't available, try to put them outside of LoS if you don't have first turn.

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Barking Agatha
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PostSubject: Re: More Strategy - Less Crying   Fri May 20 2016, 19:06

I dunno, 'more strategy, less crying' would imply that the more you do of one, the less you can do of the other, as if crying somehow impeded strategising, but that's not true: you can cry AND strategise. We're not drones! Or else you're saying that there's something wrong or shameful about crying, and that just leads to pent-up feelings and stress!

Instead of saying 'less crying', you should say, 'Yes, yes, have a good cry, let it all out. It's been frustrating for the Dark Eldar, and you've tried, but they keep making it harder and harder, and GW just won't listen, and no one seems to care. But we're here for you, we care. Have some cake! Now, if you think about it, this FAQ business hasn't actually changed anything much. I'm not saying that things are great, but if you've managed this far this isn't really going to make much difference. It might even help a bit! See? So go ahead and cry, it will do you good. Now where's that smile? Smile

Honestly, 'less crying'. You'd think this was a Victorian orphanage. Even Rambo cried, when things got to be too much!

Very Happy
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BetrayTheWorld
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PostSubject: Re: More Strategy - Less Crying   Fri May 20 2016, 19:08

Welcome back, Agatha. Long-time no see. Wink

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The Shredder
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PostSubject: Re: More Strategy - Less Crying   Fri May 20 2016, 19:09

@Barking Agatha wrote:
I dunno, 'more strategy, less crying' would imply that the more you do of one, the less you can do of the other, as if crying somehow impeded strategising, but that's not true: you can cry AND strategise. We're not drones! Or else you're saying that there's something wrong or shameful about crying, and that just leads to pent-up feelings and stress!

Instead of saying 'less crying', you should say, 'Yes, yes, have a good cry, let it all out. It's been frustrating for the Dark Eldar, and you've tried, but they keep making it harder and harder, and GW just won't listen, and no one seems to care. But we're here for you, we care. Have some cake! Now, if you think about it, this FAQ business hasn't actually changed anything much. I'm not saying that things are great, but if you've managed this far this isn't really going to make much difference. It might even help a bit! See? So go ahead and cry, it will do you good. Now where's that smile? Smile

Honestly, 'less crying'. You'd think this was a Victorian orphanage. Even Rambo cried, when things got to be too much!

Very Happy

This made me smile. Smile
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Barking Agatha
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PostSubject: Re: More Strategy - Less Crying   Fri May 20 2016, 19:21

@BetrayTheWorld wrote:
Welcome back, Agatha. Long-time no see. Wink

@The Shredder wrote:
This made me smile. Smile

Hi Smile
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PostSubject: Re: More Strategy - Less Crying   Fri May 20 2016, 22:56

Quote :
I used to, simply because I hated not having a character HQ. Then I'd look at his point cost and cry.

Dont worry, just wait for DE FAQ. Im pretty sure 10pts Lhaeman will be there.

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BetrayTheWorld
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PostSubject: Re: More Strategy - Less Crying   Fri May 20 2016, 23:48

@Azdrubael wrote:
Quote :
I used to, simply because I hated not having a character HQ. Then I'd look at his point cost and cry.

Dont worry, just wait for DE FAQ. Im pretty sure 10pts Lhaeman will be there.

Then they'd need to do this for eldar too, because eldar can take a 35 point warlock that's not an independent character as their HQ as well.

The difference is that this rarely occurs because craftworld HQs are actually worth taking.

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PostSubject: Re: More Strategy - Less Crying   Sat May 21 2016, 00:42

@Barking Agatha wrote:
I dunno, 'more strategy, less crying' would imply that the more you do of one, the less you can do of the other, as if crying somehow impeded strategising, but that's not true: you can cry AND strategise. We're not drones! Or else you're saying that there's something wrong or shameful about crying, and that just leads to pent-up feelings and stress!

Instead of saying 'less crying', you should say, 'Yes, yes, have a good cry, let it all out. It's been frustrating for the Dark Eldar, and you've tried, but they keep making it harder and harder, and GW just won't listen, and no one seems to care. But we're here for you, we care. Have some cake! Now, if you think about it, this FAQ business hasn't actually changed anything much. I'm not saying that things are great, but if you've managed this far this isn't really going to make much difference. It might even help a bit! See? So go ahead and cry, it will do you good. Now where's that smile? Smile

Honestly, 'less crying'. You'd think this was a Victorian orphanage. Even Rambo cried, when things got to be too much!

Very Happy

Yeah, crying is a strategy! A bad strategy, but..

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The Red King
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PostSubject: Re: More Strategy - Less Crying   Sat May 21 2016, 02:51

Idk. I would forfeit any game my 40 year old opponent started crying in lol

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PostSubject: Re: More Strategy - Less Crying   Sat May 21 2016, 03:03

I'm 41. if crying is all it takes to win a tournament, I'll try anything once.

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Jimsolo
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PostSubject: Re: More Strategy - Less Crying   Sat May 21 2016, 03:37

Shoot, with money on the line? I'm not above some crocodile tears to secure a little victory.
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PostSubject: Re: More Strategy - Less Crying   Sat May 21 2016, 05:10

Crocodile, I think I could manage the real thing if the stakes where high enough. Lol
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PostSubject: Re: More Strategy - Less Crying   Sat May 21 2016, 06:56

Heck yeah. But on a serious note:

Dark Eldar Tactics.

One thing I have thought a lot about is the Shock Prow. Sine Raiders are not tanks and cannot tank shock without one, I feel like we're not entirely taking advantage of the Terror tactics of the Dark Eldar if we dont consider the wargear LD nerfs added to the Formation LD nerfs from the Coven and then the tank shock approach.


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PostSubject: Re: More Strategy - Less Crying   Sat May 21 2016, 07:34

It would be fun if we could tank shock in the flat out move so we could actually cover a long distance to tank shock troops of the board.

I actually like that idea and I've done it with chain snares on a Venom and a big fat blob of conscripts. That was fun!

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PostSubject: Re: More Strategy - Less Crying   Sat May 21 2016, 08:56

@Azdrubael wrote:
Quote :
I used to, simply because I hated not having a character HQ. Then I'd look at his point cost and cry.

Dont worry, just wait for DE FAQ. Im pretty sure 10pts Lhaeman will be there.

My point was that I wanted a character HQ. Even though it's far more efficient for DE, just I never liked playing armies with no characters.


But, now that the Corsair Prince exists, any DE allied detachments will be led by Lhamaeans. I have all the characters I need. Wink


@Unorthodoxy wrote:
Heck yeah.  But on a serious note:

Dark Eldar Tactics.

One thing I have thought a lot about is the Shock Prow.  Sine Raiders are not tanks and cannot tank shock without one, I feel like we're not entirely taking advantage of the Terror tactics of the Dark Eldar if we dont consider the wargear LD nerfs added to the Formation LD nerfs from the Coven and then the tank shock approach.

Personally, I wish we were better at ramming. With a Shock Prow, we're even the perfect shape for it. Razz
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PostSubject: Re: More Strategy - Less Crying   Sat May 21 2016, 15:18

I like turning the difficulty-meter up to 11 (I must really love losing, lol) and sticking with pure Dark Eldar. So if I were to take the blasters out of my kabalite squads, should I form up some trueborn squads (at the expense of another ObjSec. squad) instead and hope I can get them within range of a target before their venom is taken down, or look for anti-tank somewhere else? I have 2 Ravagers and a Razorwing in my collection and I typically go for 1500 point games.

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PostSubject: Re: More Strategy - Less Crying   Sat May 21 2016, 15:42

Ravagers are generally better than blasterborn.

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PostSubject: Re: More Strategy - Less Crying   Sat May 21 2016, 18:11

@Tounguekutter wrote:
I like turning the difficulty-meter up to 11 (I must really love losing, lol) and sticking with pure Dark Eldar.

The dark eldar being "hard mode" was a strong appeal to me as recently as the 5th edition, but between the insane power creep and sharp decrease in our options - I see playing the dark kin as just banging my head against the wall at this point.  I've always played multiple armies though, so it really isn't a big deal for me to put them on the shelf (actually most of that army is in a storage unit) to await better days.

And just coincidentally... I actually did bring a dark eldar player to tears yesterday.  They were in his eyes and not running down his cheeks but were most certainly there.  It was his own fault though for assuming this silly rock/paper/scissors supplement was going to magically fix his entire army (Because 5 is greater than 3!, for those occasions when that matters).  I do regret that he forced me to dissuade him of that opinion though.
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PostSubject: Re: More Strategy - Less Crying   Sat May 21 2016, 18:23

@stilgar27 wrote:

And just coincidentally... I actually did bring a dark eldar player to tears yesterday.  They were in his eyes and not running down his cheeks but were most certainly there.  It was his own fault though for assuming this silly rock/paper/scissors supplement was going to magically fix his entire army (Because 5 is greater than 3!, for those occasions when that matters).  I do regret that he forced me to dissuade him of that opinion though.

Care to elaborate? I'd be interested in hearing what transpired.

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PostSubject: Re: More Strategy - Less Crying   Sat May 21 2016, 18:40

Tank shock leadership bubbles don't really work now thanks to the faq. Unless you mean freakish spectacle which I assume is conferred to the vehicle.

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PostSubject: Re: More Strategy - Less Crying   Sat May 21 2016, 20:04

Yeah, freakish spectacle is what he was talking about and is given to the formation in general, of which any dedicated transports purchased therein are a part of. So vehicles from detachments in the covens book have the freakish spectacle rule.

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PostSubject: Re: More Strategy - Less Crying   Sat May 21 2016, 21:06

You could also deep Strike the Armour of Misery nearby to get -3 modification easily.

But against normal Marines I'd do that with a Skimmer without leadership bubble too.
Leadership 8 is worth a try.

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PostSubject: Re: More Strategy - Less Crying   Sat May 21 2016, 21:24

@BetrayTheWorld wrote:

Care to elaborate? I'd be interested in hearing what transpired.

About what you'd expect from someone who'd nearly given up on a beloved army, then re-embraced it after reading only part of the latest supplement.  He challenged me to a game where he took almost half his points in razorwings against my ravenwing strike force which included a single nephilim.

Depressing wall of text, as requested:
 

He has a beautiful army which he's spent hundreds of hours painting and building.  His razorwings are better than anything I'll probably ever paint... I can fully understand why he wants them to become dominant, it's just not happening this edition.

He was also telling me what a bad week he was having, so... there's probably more going on than a silly game.  And in retrospect I feel really bad for mentioning it. pale


Last edited by stilgar27 on Sat May 21 2016, 21:48; edited 1 time in total
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PostSubject: Re: More Strategy - Less Crying   Sat May 21 2016, 21:47

What? What kind of abilities does this über flyer have??

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PostSubject: Re: More Strategy - Less Crying   Sat May 21 2016, 21:57

@stilgar27 wrote:
@BetrayTheWorld wrote:

Care to elaborate? I'd be interested in hearing what transpired.

About what you'd expect from someone who'd nearly given up on a beloved army, then re-embraced it after reading only part of the latest supplement.  He challenged me to a game where he took almost half his points in razorwings against my ravenwing strike force which included a single nephilim.

Depressing wall of text, as requested:
 

He has a beautiful army which he's spent hundreds of hours painting and building.  His razorwings are better than anything I'll probably ever paint... I can fully understand why he wants them to become dominant, it's just not happening this edition.

He was also telling me what a bad week he was having, so... there's probably more going on than a silly game.  And in retrospect I feel really bad for mentioning it. pale

I actually really appreciate the story. This encourages me to continue trying to ensure people are as educated as possible about the tactical options with their models. This is one of the reasons I feel it necessary to correct people on the forums so often. I get a lot of hate for it, but when someone is singing the praises of a model that has a glaring weakness they're failing to mention, it influences the decision of others who might read that thread, and can lead good people to spend hard-earned money, and countless hours on something that simply isn't going to give them the enjoyment they ought to get out of something they spend that much time and money on.

I can imagine his frustration, having spent so much time and money on so many flyers, only to find that their performance under these new rules is sub-par, at best. The new rules actually even made them WORSE than they originally were against ground targets, who were previously considered their primary targets.

Thanks again for the story.

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