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Deathwasp11
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PostSubject: 5th edition codex   Sat May 07 2016, 16:09

What do you think about using the 5th editon codex instead of the 7th.
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Jimsolo
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PostSubject: Re: 5th edition codex   Sat May 07 2016, 16:13

If people would let me I totally would.
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Deathwasp11
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PostSubject: Re: 5th edition codex   Sat May 07 2016, 16:29

Is it me or is it a shame, and an indication of the poor state of 40k that even thuogh the power level of the game keeps increasing we would rather play with an outdated codex.

Would you still try and play freak show, and how would that efect it

Double post merged. Please use the edit function in future. Cheers - Cavash
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CurstAlchemist
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PostSubject: Re: 5th edition codex   Sat May 07 2016, 16:33

@Deathwasp11 wrote:
Is it me or is it a shame, and an indication of the poor state of 40k that even thuogh the power level of the game keeps increasing we would rather play with an outdated codex.

While the power creep has hit the game heavy we took a power creep in the opposite direction so it isn't any wonder that we would want to go back as it would be a boost even if it wouldn't put us on the same level as the powerhouses of this edition.
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CptMetal
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PostSubject: Re: 5th edition codex   Sat May 07 2016, 17:24

I'm fine with this codex. It's a shame because it has so many missed opportunities but it's okay.

It's always been obvious that the way of the true kin is a difficult one, so this doesn't come as a surprise, doesn't it?

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Jimsolo
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PostSubject: Re: 5th edition codex   Sat May 07 2016, 17:27

@Deathwasp11 wrote:
Would you still try and play freak show, and how would that efect it

Yep. For the time being I'll still play them.

The biggest hit the Freakshow takes is the change to area of effect rules. Mask of Shadows and Armor of Misery no longer work from within a transport. Fortunately, a Corsair Prince can still take one, which solves that problem.

Covens formations aren't hit so hard; the vehicles themselves are part of the Formation, and generate a bubble all on their own. So in a Freakshow, Covens resolve the three way tie for 'best core of the army' for Freakshows and move up to #1.

Psychic Shriek actually got way more ripped (resolved the Witchfire rule that my group personally never tried to screw me on, but I know lots of folks were getting hosed with, as well as establishing that they cut through Void Shields now).

The change to BB also means CWE will guest star less in our lists, or more accurately, appear in a different role.

I plan to do a 'Freakuently Asked Questions' installment of the Freakshow articles once a final draft of the FAQ is in place.
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The Shredder
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PostSubject: Re: 5th edition codex   Sat May 07 2016, 17:33

As a question, for those who'd prefer to use the 5th edition book, what would you use?
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Jimsolo
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PostSubject: Re: 5th edition codex   Sat May 07 2016, 17:37

5th edition DE with current edition everything else? Baron Sathonyx in an allied Seer Council. Raider Gunboats with Duke Sliscus for free Deep Strike on everything. Venomspam with Wrack troops. Oodles of Hellions. In short, MSU out the wazoo.
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CptMetal
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PostSubject: Re: 5th edition codex   Sat May 07 2016, 17:44

But MSU can still be used. Maybe even better with a crap load of single model beast units.

I might actually try this. Anybody an idea which model to use for a Khymera?

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Jimsolo
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PostSubject: Re: 5th edition codex   Sat May 07 2016, 17:47

Not Hellion MSU. And not Wrack MSU, at least not effectively.

I use old Dreamblade minis. Back in the day, Khymerae were supposed to be nightmares made flesh pulled from the Warp. Since Dreamblade is literally a game about nightmares made manifest, it seemed like a good choice to pick up Khymerae.
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CptMetal
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PostSubject: Re: 5th edition codex   Sat May 07 2016, 17:57

Why Wracks? They weren't better those days as far as I remember...

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Jimsolo
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PostSubject: Re: 5th edition codex   Sat May 07 2016, 18:05

Actually, it was the 5th ed poison that made them better.
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CptMetal
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PostSubject: Re: 5th edition codex   Sat May 07 2016, 18:11

But that is an "edition thingy" not an actual "codex thingy" so that doesn't count Wink

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Jimsolo
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PostSubject: Re: 5th edition codex   Sat May 07 2016, 18:12

I know. (I was saying you were right.) Very Happy
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The Shredder
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PostSubject: Re: 5th edition codex   Sat May 07 2016, 18:14

@CptMetal wrote:
Why Wracks? They weren't better those days as far as I remember...

You could take them in units of 3. Very Happy
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amishprn86
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PostSubject: Re: 5th edition codex   Sat May 07 2016, 18:39

I like 5th Dex better for MANY reasons.

Trueborns had more options.
Wyches had more options (and better)
Vect is in the book
Beastpacks are better (they didnt need a nerf)
Raiders Rule was better (move 12 shoot all at full BS)
More characters

Tho there are a couple things in the new book I like better like the No Mishap WWP, Court as an HQ, some cheaper points here and there, and PFP rules.

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Deathwasp11
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PostSubject: Re: 5th edition codex   Sat May 07 2016, 19:48

I like the reave bladevain rules out of the old Dex, and the chain snares on transports,
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Jimsolo
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PostSubject: Re: 5th edition codex   Sat May 07 2016, 20:50

Which remind me, Shredder!

Fortress of Redemption crewed by Wracks. Super low cost for some beastly firepower and Void Shielded battlements for my skimmers.
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amishprn86
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PostSubject: Re: 5th edition codex   Sat May 07 2016, 21:02

I stopped playing Builds b.c a 6 on the damage chart wrecks them.

If it was like Vehicles and you needed a 7 then that would be different.

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@miral
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PostSubject: Re: 5th edition codex   Sat May 07 2016, 22:27

@CptMetal wrote:


I might actually try this. Anybody an idea which model to use for a Khymera?

Chaos dogs were always ok. Plus - you can lend them to chaos players if you don't play them
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BetrayTheWorld
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PostSubject: Re: 5th edition codex   Sun May 08 2016, 01:19

@The Shredder wrote:
As a question, for those who'd prefer to use the 5th edition book, what would you use?

WYCHES!!!! With Haywire grenades! (I'm not counting the FAQ changes until they're finalized)

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PostSubject: Re: 5th edition codex   Sun May 08 2016, 11:38

Our 7th edition codex isn't up to date with the rest of the game, and let's be hornets; neither is the 5th edition one.

Some examples:

Archon
Had access to to a Venom Blade, Ghostplate Armor and Combat Drugs, but not to a Blaster.

Court of the Archon
Couldn't be taken independendly from an Archon and had to include one of each models. And Ur-Ghuls were even more useless back then.

Succubus
The Archite Glaive didn't exist.

Wyches
After the last FAQ, they could only use one Haywire grenade in the assault phase anyway.
And Haywire aside, they were overpriced for the mediocre close combat troops they were, even if their special weapons were better than today.

Bloodbrides
Just Wyches with +1 Attacks and Leadership for 3 points each. A better deal than today, but still nothing to really call an elite assault unit.

Mandrakes
Unintentional as it may be, they are now an amusingly annoying close-range shooting unit. Back in 5th, they already sucked in close combat, but couldn't even shoot before having killed a unit in close combat!

Grotesques
Needed a joined IC to keep them from killing you own units!

Wracks
The Ossefactor didn't exist!

Harlequins
All around worse than the Cast of Players formation we can have today.

Taloi
Had a randomized number of attacks.

Cronoi
Instead of granting a FNP bubble, they allowed you to switch pain tokens around. And you had to buy their flamer weapon extra.

Raiders/Venoms/Ravagers
Needed a 5-points-upgrade to deepstrike reliably.

Razorwing/Voidraven
Were skimmers instead of fliers!


You see, not everything was better in 5th.

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The Shredder
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PostSubject: Re: 5th edition codex   Sun May 08 2016, 11:54

A few of these are incorrect:

@Rokuro wrote:

Archon
Had access to to a Venom Blade, Ghostplate Armor and Combat Drugs, but not to a Blaster.

Archons did have access to a Blaster.

@Rokuro wrote:

Succubus
The Archite Glaive didn't exist.

But Agonisers were the same price and AP2. Also, Succubi were 10pts cheaper to begin with.

@Rokuro wrote:

Bloodbrides
Just Wyches with +1 Attacks and Leadership for 3 points each. A better deal than today, but still nothing to really call an elite assault unit.

I'm not sure what your point is with these. If nothing else, it's not like going back to the 5th edition book would be a loss for them.

@Rokuro wrote:

Wracks
The Ossefactor didn't exist!

But they could be taken as Troops, could be taken in units of 3, and the Liquifier Gun was actually worth a damn.

@Rokuro wrote:

Taloi
Had a randomized number of attacks.

But was cheaper and actually had PFP.

@Rokuro wrote:

Cronoi
Instead of granting a FNP bubble, they allowed you to switch pain tokens around. And you had to buy their flamer weapon extra.

Incorrect - they came with a flamer automatically. It was also S4 instead of S3. They were also 20pts cheaper and, as with the Talos, had PFP. Finally, you weren't required to choose between their pain token ability and their large blast weapon. They came with the former automatically (because, you know, it's the entire point of the unit) and could then purchase the latter.

@Rokuro wrote:

Raiders/Venoms/Ravagers
Needed a 5-points-upgrade to deepstrike reliably.

However:
- Splinter Racks were 5pts cheaper.
- Night Shields were 5pts cheaper, better and could be purchased for Venoms.
- Raiders and Ravagers could buy Flickerfields.
- Ravagers could move 12" and fire all 3 guns.

@Rokuro wrote:

Razorwing/Voidraven
Were skimmers instead of fliers!

Personally, I consider this a massive plus.

I can tell you that 'hamfistedly shoehorning fliers into the game with all the finesse of a beached sperm whale' was never on my 40k wish list.
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CptMetal
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PostSubject: Re: 5th edition codex   Sun May 08 2016, 13:45

True. The implementation of flyers was a bad thing. It would fit an apocalypse game but not a standard one.

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The Dark Eldar Codex sucks. You probably won just because your enemy loaded his dice to loose. Never forget this mantra and spread the word. Mention it in every discussion possible, people can´t get enough of that valuable information and need to be reminded regularely.
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amishprn86
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PostSubject: Re: 5th edition codex   Sun May 08 2016, 14:37

I personally LOVE the lifers and rules for the, they just need to let fliers tho hit other fliers with any type of weapon.

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