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 Passengers in jinking transports can only fire snapshots

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chickendinner
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PostSubject: Passengers in jinking transports can only fire snapshots   Wed May 04 2016, 23:38

On mobile right now, so I can only provide the link.
http://natfka.blogspot.co.uk/2016/05/warhammer-40000-faqs-first-draft.html

The rule in question is listed on the jinking page.

This is a first draft, but I'm pessimistic as to the chances of this being changed.

All I can say is that this rule was pretty crucial to my raider list.

Edit: just noticed the post under the discussion thread. Sorry about that.
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BetrayTheWorld
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PostSubject: Re: Passengers in jinking transports can only fire snapshots   Thu May 05 2016, 01:55

Yeah, I also don't have a lot of faith that this will be changed, which seriously cripples our army, and ONLY our army. As if the DE needed another nerf.
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hydranixx
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PostSubject: Re: Passengers in jinking transports can only fire snapshots   Thu May 05 2016, 02:09

@BetrayTheWorld wrote:
ONLY our army.

Necrons too, but I get your point. Ghost Arks will still be playable after these changes, Raiders not so much.

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Deathwasp11
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PostSubject: Re: Passengers in jinking transports can only fire snapshots   Thu May 05 2016, 02:40

No I wouldn't call the, av 13 ,20 shot respawning ,warriors ghost arch crippled. Lol
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BetrayTheWorld
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PostSubject: Re: Passengers in jinking transports can only fire snapshots   Thu May 05 2016, 02:56

Exactly. I knew it "effected" necrons, but it doesn't cripple them. It completely cripples DE.

The only legitimate pure DE build at this point is non-shooting coven units.
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hydranixx
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PostSubject: Re: Passengers in jinking transports can only fire snapshots   Thu May 05 2016, 06:22

@BetrayTheWorld wrote:
The only legitimate pure DE build at this point is non-shooting coven units.

Yeah and these narrow builds require the supplement to achieve any results lol. A supplement that isn't even printed anymore, I hasten to add lol. Dark Eldar squatted confirmed.

On a serious note though, do you usually bother Jinking with Venoms, seeing as they come stock with a 5++? I'm genuinely wondering if maybe Ghost Arks are hurt more by the Jink changes than Venoms are.

It would be a Pyrrhic victory at best, considering that Raiders are a write off, but it's food for thought..

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Massaen
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PostSubject: Re: Passengers in jinking transports can only fire snapshots   Thu May 05 2016, 08:34

So you don't rate venoms then at all?

Personally, this effects me zero...

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BetrayTheWorld
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PostSubject: Re: Passengers in jinking transports can only fire snapshots   Thu May 05 2016, 16:50

@hydranixx wrote:

On a serious note though, do you usually bother Jinking with Venoms, seeing as they come stock with a 5++? I'm genuinely wondering if maybe Ghost Arks are hurt more by the Jink changes than Venoms are.

It depends on what is firing at them, and what's inside. I would jink if you're virtually guaranteed destruction either way. If someone is firing a predator with three twin-linked lascannons at my venom carrying my succubus warlord with archite glaive, yeah, I'd probably jink. (Not that I'd typically put a succubus in a venom, just saying IF it were the case)

That said, I don't think it hurts ghost arks as much as it hurts us, because ghost arks get the quantum shielding for AV13, and natively have AV11 if I recall correctly. So even without jinking, they are immune to weapons below strength 7 until their quantum shielding is popped. And afterwards they're STILL immune to bolters. A ghost ark also isn't THAT expensive. That means they don't have to worry about jinking to all of the weapons S4-S6 that commonly kill our transports.

Besides, the best necron lists I've played against didn't even use a ghost ark. The same almost fundamentally couldn't be said by anyone when referring to the best DE lists, Haha.
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Calyptra
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PostSubject: Re: Passengers in jinking transports can only fire snapshots   Thu May 05 2016, 19:16

@BetrayTheWorld wrote:

That said, I don't think it hurts ghost arks as much as it hurts us, because ghost arks get the quantum shielding for AV13, and natively have AV11 if I recall correctly. So even without jinking, they are immune to weapons below strength 7 until their quantum shielding is popped. And afterwards they're STILL immune to bolters. A ghost ark also isn't THAT expensive. That means they don't have to worry about jinking to all of the weapons S4-S6 that commonly kill our transports.

It's worth noting that because the lance and quantum shielding rules cancel out now, dark (or bright) lances will glance a Ghost Ark on a 3.

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Marrath
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PostSubject: Re: Passengers in jinking transports can only fire snapshots   Thu May 05 2016, 19:51

So, do our passengers get 4+ cover until the start of their next movement phase?
Even if their transport blows up?
Against the Explosion itself?

Or do they only get the butt end of the jink rule?

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CptMetal
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PostSubject: Re: Passengers in jinking transports can only fire snapshots   Thu May 05 2016, 20:22

Butt end it is!
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Marrath
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PostSubject: Re: Passengers in jinking transports can only fire snapshots   Thu May 05 2016, 20:27

Big surprise Rolling Eyes

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PriorofDeath
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PostSubject: Re: Passengers in jinking transports can only fire snapshots   Thu May 05 2016, 23:25

Gonna drop this in here because I don't think it warrants it's own thread.

So it looks like if your farseer jinks on a bike he can no longer psychic shriek. Since witchfires are shooting attacks (BRB 27) and any shooting attack that does not use BS to hit cannot be fired as a snap shot. (BRB 33).

Am I getting this right?

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PostSubject: Re: Passengers in jinking transports can only fire snapshots   Thu May 05 2016, 23:38

BUTT END!

Well... For Craftworld cousins and a little bit for us too.
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hydranixx
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PostSubject: Re: Passengers in jinking transports can only fire snapshots   Fri May 06 2016, 02:21

@BetrayTheWorld wrote:
Besides, the best necron lists I've played against didn't even use a ghost ark. The same almost fundamentally couldn't be said by anyone when referring to the best DE lists, Haha.

Yeah that's a fair call haha.

Ghost Arks seem common in Decurion, but yeah you are right, Necrons hardly depend on them as we depend on Venoms/Raiders.

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Massaen
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PostSubject: Re: Passengers in jinking transports can only fire snapshots   Fri May 06 2016, 07:41

@PriorofDeath wrote:
Gonna drop this in here because I don't think it warrants it's own thread.

So it looks like if your farseer  jinks on a bike he can no longer psychic shriek. Since witchfires are shooting attacks (BRB 27) and any shooting attack that does not use BS to hit cannot be fired as a snap shot. (BRB 33).

Am I getting this right?

Right up until the new FAQ becomes legal - I believe it works fine then

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BetrayTheWorld
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PostSubject: Re: Passengers in jinking transports can only fire snapshots   Fri May 06 2016, 21:48

@Massaen wrote:
@PriorofDeath wrote:
Gonna drop this in here because I don't think it warrants it's own thread.

So it looks like if your farseer  jinks on a bike he can no longer psychic shriek. Since witchfires are shooting attacks (BRB 27) and any shooting attack that does not use BS to hit cannot be fired as a snap shot. (BRB 33).

Am I getting this right?

Right up until the new FAQ becomes legal - I believe it works fine then

What part of the new FAQ stops this from being the case?
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Massaen
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PostSubject: Re: Passengers in jinking transports can only fire snapshots   Mon May 09 2016, 06:54

Page 27 – The Psychic Phase, Witchfire
Add the following sentence after the fourth sentence of the first paragraph:
‘However, some witchfire powers do not have a weapon profile (such as the Telepathy power, Psychic Shriek); where this is the case, no To Hit roll is required – the attack hits automatically.’

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BetrayTheWorld
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PostSubject: Re: Passengers in jinking transports can only fire snapshots   Mon May 09 2016, 17:23

Ok, I think one of us misunderstood the other.

When the FAQ becomes official, psychic shriek will not be able to hit flying MCs or flying GMCs because you aren't allowed to snapfire something that hits automatically.

Is that your understanding as well?
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Massaen
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PostSubject: Re: Passengers in jinking transports can only fire snapshots   Tue May 10 2016, 12:28

Yup

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Count Adhemar
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PostSubject: Re: Passengers in jinking transports can only fire snapshots   Tue May 10 2016, 13:14

Overall I'd still say Psychic Shriek came out ahead after the FAQ. Okay, you cannot hit FMCs or FGCs at all but you previously needed a 6 anyway so they were not really decent targets. And now you no longer need to roll to hit at all against anything else. I'm fine with that.

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BetrayTheWorld
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PostSubject: Re: Passengers in jinking transports can only fire snapshots   Tue May 10 2016, 14:23

@Count Adhemar wrote:
Overall I'd still say Psychic Shriek came out ahead after the FAQ. Okay, you cannot hit FMCs or FGCs at all but you previously needed a 6 anyway so they were not really decent targets. And now you no longer need to roll to hit at all against anything else. I'm fine with that.

Yeah, this is pretty much my feeling on it as well.
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