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Jimsolo
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PostSubject: Re: Wow, GW just made us even worse   Sat May 07 2016, 00:17

Again, I think the FAQs are clarifying the RAI, not RAW.
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Aroshamash
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PostSubject: Re: Wow, GW just made us even worse   Sat May 07 2016, 07:44

To be fair, jinking affecting the passengers does make sense. After all, if they're bucking and weaving to the extent that the targetting equipment on vehicles is having a hard time shooting, it makes sense to me that the aim of the passengers is a little off. The Warriors riding on the Raider aren't sailing along smoothly on nothing while the Raider corkscrews and dives, they're hanging on for dear life. Doesn't mean this decision doesn't negatively affect us, but it does make sense. Hopefully we'll just get a rule in the next codex: Lovers of Extreme Sports - Dark Eldar buckle themselves in with chains, and lean back to enjoy the ride. Dark Eldar suffer no penalties for their vehicles jinking, due to a combination of heightened senses, skill, and not caring about risks.

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Rokuro
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PostSubject: Re: Wow, GW just made us even worse   Sat May 07 2016, 09:47

@amishprn86 wrote:
@Ultra Magnus wrote:
@Azdrubael wrote:
What oversight ? We used to be able too flat-out, roll some cover saves, next turn disembbark or not, then shoot. Now the same but shoot at BS1 even if you disembarked, cause you count as jinked...

Thats nerf, plain.


I believe their thinking is that with all that jixing the guys spilling out of the transport are all car sick and too busy throwing up to shoot straight... Very Happy

Ask a sailor when he gets out of a bad ride if he is sick.. the answer is no.

The only faction that has jinking transports and soldiers that are probably suceptile to motion sickness are the Tau. Razz
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Klaivex Charondyr
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PostSubject: Re: Wow, GW just made us even worse   Sat May 07 2016, 11:18

@Aroshamash wrote:
To be fair, jinking affecting the passengers does make sense. After all, if they're bucking and weaving to the extent that the targetting equipment on vehicles is having a hard time shooting, it makes sense to me that the aim of the passengers is a little off. The Warriors riding on the Raider aren't sailing along smoothly on nothing while the Raider corkscrews and dives, they're hanging on for dear life. Doesn't mean this decision doesn't negatively affect us, but it does make sense. Hopefully we'll just get a rule in the next codex: Lovers of Extreme Sports - Dark Eldar buckle themselves in with chains, and lean back to enjoy the ride. Dark Eldar suffer no penalties for their vehicles jinking, due to a combination of heightened senses, skill, and not caring about risks.

Because one of the most technically advanced species in the 40k universe that basically only uses these fast skimmers can't possibly have artificial gravitation, inertia dampeners or any other kind of tech that enables them to stay operational while doing what they do since 10k years.
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The Shredder
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PostSubject: Re: Wow, GW just made us even worse   Sat May 07 2016, 11:28

@Aroshamash wrote:
To be fair, jinking affecting the passengers does make sense. After all, if they're bucking and weaving to the extent that the targetting equipment on vehicles is having a hard time shooting, it makes sense to me that the aim of the passengers is a little off. The Warriors riding on the Raider aren't sailing along smoothly on nothing while the Raider corkscrews and dives, they're hanging on for dear life.

The thing is, Fast and Agile is our whole shtick. It's what we do. Our ships are designed to be fast and to weave around, running rings around slow, imperial vehicles. hence, our crews should be well-trained in firing accurately even as their ships veer and swerve about.


Incidentally, if we're talking about things that make sense, it would make sense for units that do nothing but run to move further than ones which stop to shoot and then stop again to fight. Still waiting for that one. Rolling Eyes
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Jimsolo
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PostSubject: Re: Wow, GW just made us even worse   Sat May 07 2016, 12:46

It would also make sense for armies that see a horde of ravening genestealers in melee with a single expendable trooper to be able to fire into melee.
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Kantalla
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PostSubject: Re: Wow, GW just made us even worse   Sat May 07 2016, 12:52

Initially I suspected jink should affect passengers then realised the rules didn't say that. I had justified it on the basis that jinking shouldn't be worse than a crew stunned result, but as much as it is a pain, it doesn't seem too shocking they have made the change.

Having been away for a couple of editions of the rules, Dark Eldar seem much slower and everyone else much faster, and it feels like something needs to change.

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amishprn86
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PostSubject: Re: Wow, GW just made us even worse   Sat May 07 2016, 13:01

We just need to play out old Dex, we get Vect and Bestpacks back Smile

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The Shredder
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PostSubject: Re: Wow, GW just made us even worse   Sat May 07 2016, 13:02

@Jimsolo wrote:
It would also make sense for armies that see a horde of ravening genestealers in melee with a single expendable trooper to be able to fire into melee.  

Likewise, when a creature the size of a three-story building is engaged with a few guardsmen, I think it's quite reasonable to assume we could hit it with shooting, without also hitting the men.
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Jimsolo
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PostSubject: Re: Wow, GW just made us even worse   Sat May 07 2016, 13:52

Indeed.
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Deathwasp11
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PostSubject: Re: Wow, GW just made us even worse   Sat May 07 2016, 16:06

I'm not a fan of some of the things in the FAQ, but I don't think the change to jink is the biggest problem with 40k right now. I fill like 40k has a lot of problems, most of wich are caused by lack of playtesting. And poor quality control when it comes to the rules, supplements and codex. The problems or compounded by the release of a ridiculous space marine supplement followed by another that adds a new phase to an already jumbled game. GW while at first seemed to be making an effort with the FAQ shows me other wise with there most recent releases. I'm not trying to be negative, but damn.
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Maple Tiishay
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PostSubject: Re: Wow, GW just made us even worse   Sat May 07 2016, 17:07

So am I to assume that all the whiners bought into DE because they thought it would be easy? Personally I chose DE because I enjoy to be challenged. If you want everything to be easy, go play a nurgle army or something.
Was it somehow implied that our paper airplanes were meant to survive? They are not.
I admit, playing DE is maybe more challenging now than it was last week, but for me that is an exciting prospect. After all commoragh is a meritocracy, and to be blunt, all the whining equates to nothing more than weaknees.
Many of you, perhaps, weren't meant to reside amongst the Dark Kin, and if your will is broken from these silly little changes, then Commoragh obviously is not a good place for you to be seen.
Nothing gives me more delight than hearing opponents cry about how OP my army is (I'm not kidding, it happens frequently) when I know full well that I go into every game at a disadvantage.

Comfort and ease equate to weakness. Struggle and conflict lead to strength.
Make your choice. I have

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CptMetal
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PostSubject: Re: Wow, GW just made us even worse   Sat May 07 2016, 17:21

Words more true have never been spoken.

But prepare for the backlash and sharpen your knife because they will come at you with sharp tongues, the only sharp thing in their armory.

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The Shredder
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PostSubject: Re: Wow, GW just made us even worse   Sat May 07 2016, 17:26

@CptMetal wrote:
But prepare for the backlash and sharpen your knife because they will come at you with sharp tongues, the only sharp thing in their armory.

Indeed, it's one of the true horrors of forums - people disagreeing with your opinion.

Some might even dare to bring facts and logic to the table, as opposed to condescension and insults.

You're right about one thing though - tongues are indeed sharper than anything in the DE armoury. Wink
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Jimsolo
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PostSubject: Re: Wow, GW just made us even worse   Sat May 07 2016, 17:32

I thought this was a general discussion forum, rather than a roleplaying one.

Just because you disagree with someone is no reason to be rude.
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Maple Tiishay
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PostSubject: Re: Wow, GW just made us even worse   Sat May 07 2016, 17:36

Here's a fact: 40k is not a level playing field
Now here's some logic: if being at the bottom of the power scale makes you cry, go play a different army. If you want to struggle against odds and become a better PLAYER who relies on tact rather than leaning on kushy rules, then perhaps you belong in the dark city.

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The Shredder
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PostSubject: Re: Wow, GW just made us even worse   Sat May 07 2016, 17:40

@Maple Tiishay wrote:
Here's a fact: 40k is not a level playing field

Here's another fact: that's not a good thing.

@Maple Tiishay wrote:
Now here's some logic: if being at the bottom of the power scale makes you cry, go play a different army.

Do you work for the GW PR department by any chance?

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Jimsolo
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PostSubject: Re: Wow, GW just made us even worse   Sat May 07 2016, 17:43

*tactics

*cushy

Reality check, sweetpea: if you live in a meta where you are frequently called 'OP' with a straight Dark Eldar list, you're the one living on easy street. Your local players are either sub-par players to begin with, running sub-competitive lists, or just taking it easy on you.

Straight Dark Eldar just don't have the juice to compete against the top level craziness at this point in time. Period.

A game system where the factions aren't "balanced" (in actuality, some are just trickier to play than others) is one thing, and totally fine. A game where one or more factions are incapable of top level competition is a seriously flawed system.
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CptMetal
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PostSubject: Re: Wow, GW just made us even worse   Sat May 07 2016, 17:52

Well. For me it seems as if your enemies are just... well... not so nice persons?

Trying to come up with the latest dick list to screw over everybody else is not the way I want to play. Sure, you are entitled to a different opinion and I grant you that those type of lists tend to be more prevalent in tournaments but it's just not my cup of tea. That said: I'm not against competition but those things like the new conclave death stars are clearly abusive.

But assuming him to play in the "easy Street" or saying he's working for the public relations department is rude too.

Me, personally, I'm just annoyed by the "we are screwed!" talk. We know that. It's not news. Not even weeks ago. So can we now focus on finding solutions instead of projecting negativ thoughts into everyone? (I'm also a bit concerned about what this attitude is doing to new players)

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Maple Tiishay
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PostSubject: Re: Wow, GW just made us even worse   Sat May 07 2016, 18:01

Boy you two sure are defensive. Think I may have struck a nerve there. Even had to attack my spelling.
Sorry, who am I to doubt that the that the sky is falling, I will keep my thoughts to myself as this forum seems to be reserved for whining. Not people who actually enjoy the army regardless of what changes are made. My mistake
P.S sweetpea: grab a dicitionary

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Jimsolo
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PostSubject: Re: Wow, GW just made us even worse   Sat May 07 2016, 18:07

*dictionary
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The Shredder
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PostSubject: Re: Wow, GW just made us even worse   Sat May 07 2016, 18:13

@CptMetal wrote:
Well. For me it seems as if your enemies are just... well... not so nice persons?

Trying to come up with the latest dick list to screw over everybody else is not the way I want to play. Sure, you are entitled to a different opinion and I grant you that those type of lists tend to be more prevalent in tournaments but it's just not my cup of tea. That said: I'm not against competition but those things like the new conclave death stars are clearly abusive.

The trouble with that logic is that you're assuming 'fun' and 'powerful/overpowered' lists are mutually exclusive. Especially with stuff like Decurions, War Convocations and such, lists can be both fluffy and powerful. Effectively, people can end up power-gaming without ever trying to.

It's also a problem of the system giving benefits with no drawbacks. e.g. if you have the models to use War Convocation, there's really no reason not to (unless you feel like deliberately handicapping yourself).

The other aspect is that people have different interests in terms of what they consider fun. An army that looks like a power-gaming one at first glance might well just be one with an unusual theme. Again, this is the problem if having armies and choices with drastic differences in power.

@CptMetal wrote:

But assuming him to play in the "easy Street" or saying he's working for the public relations department is rude too.

So is starting off by saying that everyone who disagrees is a whiner. So is telling anyone unhappy with DE receiving nerf after nerf to just buy a different army.

@CptMetal wrote:

Me, personally, I'm just annoyed by the "we are screwed!" talk. We know that. It's not news. Not even weeks ago. So can we now focus on finding solutions instead of projecting negativ thoughts into everyone? (I'm also a bit concerned about what this attitude is doing to new players)

I appreciate that but, given the title of the thread, what were you expecting to find? Razz

Also, whilst you might be sick of 'we are screwed' talk, I'm sure others are equally sick of nerfs. They just want to be able to talk about their frustrations.

If you want to spark a more upbeat discussion, why not start a thread suggesting strategies/tactics to work around the faqs? Or, a thread discussing stuff that we no longer need fear from other races. Smile
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amishprn86
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PostSubject: Re: Wow, GW just made us even worse   Sat May 07 2016, 18:34

@Maple Tiishay wrote:
Boy you two sure are defensive. Think I may have struck a nerve there. Even had to attack my spelling.
Sorry, who am I to doubt that the that the sky is falling, I will keep my thoughts to myself as this forum seems to be reserved for whining. Not people who actually enjoy the army regardless of what changes are made. My mistake
P.S sweetpea: grab a dicitionary

All I'm reading is your bad attitude, sounds like all this hit a nerve with you. Calm down son.

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CptMetal
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PostSubject: Re: Wow, GW just made us even worse   Sat May 07 2016, 18:45

I think we should focus on what is benefiting us (cover for Venom units for example) and what the prey races can't do anymore.
Are the super conclave units still as dangerous? Are the raven wing less dangerous? Can our new and improved Razorwing do something better now?

Is a WWP without Raider a valid tactic now to get wraith guard where you want them to be now? Is that even possible?
Etc

And I'm sorry to tell you that but people that focus on negativ aspects and repeatedly tell that we are screwed seem to be enjoying their role. Who else is wasting energy on that? Maybe a follower of she who thirsts...

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The Dark Eldar Codex sucks. You probably won just because your enemy loaded his dice to loose. Never forget this mantra and spread the word. Mention it in every discussion possible, people can´t get enough of that valuable information and need to be reminded regularely.
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Cavash
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PostSubject: Re: Wow, GW just made us even worse   Sat May 07 2016, 18:52

Whenever there is a change to rules of a new release there is bound to be unrest within the community. Please desist from personal attacks and correcting other people's spelling. We ask that members of the forum use the English language to the best of their ability.

Flaming and rudeness will not be tolerated.

Cheers - Cavash

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