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Ahrall
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PostSubject: Killing a Knight   Tue May 03 2016, 09:05

Hi all!
Was wondering how other Archons go about dealing with and/or killing off your classic Imperial Knight.
My current thoughts are to force it to split its shield with Ravagers or Razorwings on one face and deep striking Blasterborn or Scourges on another.
Anyways what are your thoughts and tactics for playing against a Knight?
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Count Adhemar
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PostSubject: Re: Killing a Knight   Tue May 03 2016, 09:24

If you don't mind allies then Fire Dragons in a Raider with a WWP Archon will do the trick every time.

If you want something from our own codex then it's a lot, lot harder. 4 Blasterborn, Dracon with Haywires, Archon with Blaster and WWP, in a Raider is probably the best bet.

At least we don't have to worry about the Ion Shield.

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MarcoAvrelis
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PostSubject: Re: Killing a Knight   Tue May 03 2016, 12:00

I killed one with Haywire scourges.
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Jimsolo
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PostSubject: Re: Killing a Knight   Tue May 03 2016, 14:40

@Count Adhemar wrote:
If you don't mind allies then Fire Dragons in a Raider with a WWP Archon will do the trick every time.

If you want something from our own codex then it's a lot, lot harder. 4 Blasterborn, Dracon with Haywires, Archon with Blaster and WWP, in a Raider is probably the best bet.

At least we don't have to worry about the Ion Shield.


This. The Raider DSes in across two armor arcs, you declare your target, and your opponent declares the shield facing. Then your guys fire out the opposite end of the Raider.
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mrmagoo
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PostSubject: Re: Killing a Knight   Tue May 03 2016, 16:25


Fire Dragons in a Raider
Trueborn in a Raider (Not as good as Dragons but good for purest who want straight DE.)
WraithGuard DS in Tantalus Same Deployment trick.
Scourge - Haywire Blasters

Don't forget to use the Deployment trick Jimsolo said.


True Story:
I killed 3 in 1 Game with a Single unit of Dark Eldar True born. The Dice Gods were with me though.

Turn 2 DS trick on one and put 5 Blasters into the back. Thing exploded and scattered away from the Trueborn.
His Turn 2 another knight put a ton of shots into the raider and I jinked them all. He assaulted and destroyed the raider. 2 Died in the blast.
Turn 3 I shot and killed the one that had assaulted me. It was down 3 HPs already from other fire. Again scattered away from the trueborn.

His turn 3 the last Knight killed one with the Stubber as he fired everything else at other units thinking he could take the trueborn in HTH. It was down 2 HP from other shooting. He assaulted and was killed in overwatch, 1 Blaster hit, Rolled a 6 to pen, he Rolled a 1 to save, Roll a 6 on the table, roll a 6 for 3 extra HP.

The resulting explosion killed the rest of the true born except the 2++ Archon that was left standing alone.

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CptMetal
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PostSubject: Re: Killing a Knight   Tue May 03 2016, 17:26

That must've been AWESOME!

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BetrayTheWorld
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PostSubject: Re: Killing a Knight   Tue May 03 2016, 18:44

Swooping hawks with haywire grenades do a fair job of it too. As others have said, it's much more difficult without allies, since GW screwed wyches out of haywire grenades.

All the people saying gladiators using haywire grenades isn't fluffy are insane. If a grenade that disables a vehicle in such a way that the passengers will ALWAYS survive to be taken as slaves or fought in CC isn't fluffy for wyches, I don't know what is.

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Wolfsark
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PostSubject: Re: Killing a Knight   Sat May 07 2016, 06:24

It's not easy but if you have enough lances and haywire you can take them out.

In my army I have:

1 unit of 5 trueborn with 4 blasters

1 unit of 5 scourges with 4 haywire blasters

1 ravager with 3 lances

2 razorwings with 2 lances each

several raiders with dark lances (they usually end up jinking to protect the passengers inside)

1 succubus with haywire grenades in a unit of 3 grotesques

Dark Lances are not the most reliable due being strength 8 and really no way to get twin linked or rerolls of any kind like eldar can. So you have to take an abundance of them and attack from all angles to get through the armor and shield. Usually I get 1 or 2 hull points off of it with lances then finish it off with haywire when it gets into range. I should really get another unit of scourges ...

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BlackCadian
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PostSubject: Re: Killing a Knight   Sat May 07 2016, 09:56

Personally I believe most armies can reliably take down 'a' knight - it becomes more complicated going against a pure Imperial Knight army. I've only played 3 of them once but it was very challenging. Plus, when you use heat lances you're probably close enough to get toasted, too when the knight goes supernova.

PS: apparently battle bros hitching a ride won't be thing much longer (new FAQs). Which is a good thing imo, I hate seeing proud archons playing cab driver for our cousins.

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Rokuro
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PostSubject: Re: Killing a Knight   Sat May 07 2016, 09:58

@Count Adhemar wrote:
If you don't mind allies then Fire Dragons in a Raider with a WWP Archon will do the trick every time.

Sadly, that's not an option anymore. Crying or Very sad
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The Red King
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PostSubject: Re: Killing a Knight   Sat May 07 2016, 17:39

And haywire hawks are a no go.

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Jimsolo
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PostSubject: Re: Killing a Knight   Sat May 07 2016, 17:45

@The Red King wrote:
And haywire hawks are a no go.


Daaaaaaamn. I didn't think about that. Crud.

Swooping Hawks just became pretty worthless, in my book.
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The Red King
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PostSubject: Re: Killing a Knight   Sat May 07 2016, 19:06

Actually since the FAQ makes no sense it should be noted that hawks can still do a flyby haywire attack on enemy fliers wherein every model gets to use his haywire grenade. Something they can't figure out on the ground I guess

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CptMetal
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PostSubject: Re: Killing a Knight   Sat May 07 2016, 19:52

Why should they be able to use more than one Grenade per phase as it is clearly stated?

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The Shredder
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PostSubject: Re: Killing a Knight   Sat May 07 2016, 22:34

@CptMetal wrote:
Why should they be able to use more than one Grenade per phase as it is clearly stated?

Because the rules state that you can only throw one grenade per phase. They then state that, in combat, grenades aren't thrown but are instead clamped to the enemy.

The only time grenades are thrown - i.e. the only time the one-per-phase rule should apply - is in the shooting phase.

As an example, a unit with Haywire Grenades may "throw a grenade" in the shooting phase.

In the assault phase, Haywire Grenades may be "used in assault".
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The Red King
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PostSubject: Re: Killing a Knight   Sat May 07 2016, 23:58

Which the faq declares to mean only 1. Despite units who purchase squad grenades which is now NEVER worth it.

In the case of the Hawks however they have a flyby attack that specifically says one hit with the haywire special rule per model. Clearly indicating that they are each using a gende.

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BetrayTheWorld
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PostSubject: Re: Killing a Knight   Sun May 08 2016, 00:55

Yeah, the way the rule is written, it clearly allows for more than 1, but with the poorly written FAQ placed side by side with it, I think the FAQ would make it mean 1. The grenade answer is terrible, and suffered more backlash than any other individual ruling in the entire FAQ.

Codex wrote:
Intercept: At the end of the Movement phase, a model with this special rule can make one
Attack against an enemy Flyer or Flying Monstrous Creature that it moved over that turn.
The Attack hits on a roll of 4+, and is resolved at Strength 4 AP4 with the Haywire special
rule. Flyers are hit on their side armour.

For them not to change it would represent hubris beyond The Donald. No one outdoes the Donald.

90% sure they'll change that.

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Evil Space Elves
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PostSubject: Re: Killing a Knight   Sun May 08 2016, 06:40


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Alvaneron
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PostSubject: Re: Killing a Knight   Sun May 08 2016, 22:48

@The Shredder wrote:
@CptMetal wrote:
Why should they be able to use more than one Grenade per phase as it is clearly stated?

Because the rules state that you can only throw one grenade per phase. They then state that, in combat, grenades aren't thrown but are instead clamped to the enemy.

The FAQ clearly says
"only one model from the unit can attack with a grenade in the Assault phase. Per Warhammer 40,000 Rules, 'Only one grenade (of any type) can be thrown by a unit per phase".

The first sentence clearly says that you cant throw, stick, swallow or puke more than one grenade.

BtT:
Iam ignoring Kights since i learned that even 3 Ravager need lucky Shots to kill it. You have to surround it, but if you are able to, he already lost the game because the rest of its Army is dead. There is no other reason why you were able to surround him Wink
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The Shredder
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PostSubject: Re: Killing a Knight   Sun May 08 2016, 23:12

@Alvaneron wrote:

The FAQ clearly says
"only one model from the unit can attack with a grenade in the Assault phase. Per Warhammer 40,000 Rules, 'Only one grenade (of any type) can be thrown by a unit per phase".

The first sentence clearly says that you cant throw, stick, swallow or puke more than one grenade.

Yes, that's why many people are annoyed. Because it is changing what's in the rulebook, rather than clarifying it.
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Jimsolo
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PostSubject: Re: Killing a Knight   Mon May 09 2016, 00:39

That, and because it's stupid.
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Alvaneron
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PostSubject: Re: Killing a Knight   Mon May 09 2016, 09:30

The Question was clearified and my guess is, that some single like "throw" or "stick" are the reasons why players choose to interprete it like they can use more than one grenade of the same type.

Well, Wyches got this nerf with our Codex, i don´t see this as a something different than the Rulebook.
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Count Adhemar
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PostSubject: Re: Killing a Knight   Mon May 09 2016, 09:51

A lot of people seem to be trying to wriggle their way out of the FAQ decisions. Whilst I don't agree with many of the responses given by GW, when a question is asked and GW gives a very clear, one word answer (yes or no) then trying to maneuver your way around that just makes you look petty. There's an SM player on Bolter & Chainsword still trying to argue that SM characters can have more than one relic despite the FAQ saying:

Q: How many Relics/Artefacts can a single model be equipped with?
A: A model can only be given a single Relic/Artefact of any kind unless specifically noted otherwise

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The Shredder
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PostSubject: Re: Killing a Knight   Mon May 09 2016, 09:54

If you're referring to me, I wasn't suggesting that the faq shouldn't be followed (though I will freely suggest that whoever wrote it needs their head examined).

I was just disagreeing with the notion that the rule for grenades has always been that way.
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Count Adhemar
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PostSubject: Re: Killing a Knight   Mon May 09 2016, 09:59

@The Shredder wrote:
If you're referring to me, I wasn't suggesting that the faq shouldn't be followed (though I will freely suggest that whoever wrote it needs their head examined).

I was just disagreeing with the notion that the rule for grenades has always been that way.

Nope, not aimed at you. Just general comment.

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