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 Death from the Skies

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BetrayTheWorld
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PostSubject: Re: Death from the Skies   Tue May 03 2016, 23:53

Count Adhemar wrote:

Also FNP

Many bonuses to FNP are starting to come with the caveat "but cannot improve this beyond X+". Such as the 3+ we're limited to in the covens supplement.

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Count Adhemar
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PostSubject: Re: Death from the Skies   Wed May 04 2016, 00:04

Iron Hands is the particular FNP one that I'm thinking of but it takes a combination of wargear, warlord traits and psychic powers and only applies to the model, not the unit.

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WhysoSully
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PostSubject: Re: Death from the Skies   Wed May 04 2016, 00:05

BetrayTheWorld wrote:
Count Adhemar wrote:

Also FNP

Many bonuses to FNP are starting to come with the caveat "but cannot improve this beyond X+". Such as the 3+ we're limited to in the covens supplement.

Yep, even then, isnt it technically a 4+ with the option of giving your roll +1?

I cant recall the exact rule, and dont have my books on me, but I believe no FNP can be improved past 4+ with anything lower being "+1 to the result" type thing.

I cant speak for other armies but I think thats at least how RAW works out for our boys.

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Myrvn
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PostSubject: Re: Death from the Skies   Wed May 04 2016, 00:10

I've seen several folks that use the plus one to circumvent the minimum. IE the roll is a 4+ minimum, but you aren't changing that you are adding one to the roll. So a 3+ roll plus 1 is a minimum 4+.

I'm just curious if that same logic applies to Air Superiority.

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Creeping Darkness
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PostSubject: Re: Death from the Skies   Wed May 04 2016, 01:21

Worth noting that the new flyer detachments will allow anyone to take any flyer without a troop/hq tax.

Feel like some more anti-air muscle in your Space Marine army? Take a Crimson Hunter!

Want some Stormtalons in your Dark Eldar for that sweet, sweet S7? Go for it! Heck, stick a Dark Eldar in the cockpit and call it looted... it's fair game now!
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WhysoSully
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PostSubject: Re: Death from the Skies   Wed May 04 2016, 01:26

Creeping Darkness wrote:
Worth noting that the new flyer detachments will allow anyone to take any flyer without a troop/hq tax.

Feel like some more anti-air muscle in your Space Marine army? Take a Crimson Hunter!

Want some Stormtalons in your Dark Eldar for that sweet, sweet S7? Go for it! Heck, stick a Dark Eldar in the cockpit and call it looted... it's fair game now!

Add larger bases to them so they are taller and then never worry about one eye open!

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stilgar27
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PostSubject: Re: Death from the Skies   Wed May 04 2016, 01:36

It seems to apply that bonus from air superiority (if I'm interpreting it properly) the squad leader has to be in reserve.  Since the whole squadron comes on with the same reserve roll, you'll have to leave a lot of points off the table to keep that reserve bonus.

If kept in reserve there are still dogfights - but it looks like only 1 of those can be declared a turn.  Even then it looks like the razorwing will "beat" the stormhawk about 65% of the time, but then due to the lack of firepower, will still struggle to bring one down.  The storm hawk on the other hand should vaporize our flyers given the opportunity as it gets a new heavy 2 lascannon amongst other high volume weapons.

This formation should be pretty popular over all as it's available to everyone, and grants other bonuses we have no ability to exploit like transports gaining objective secured.
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BetrayTheWorld
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PostSubject: Re: Death from the Skies   Wed May 04 2016, 03:46

WhysoSully wrote:

Add larger bases to them so they are taller and then never worry about one eye open!

lol, pretty sure it doesn't work that way. Range in the game is measured from a purely top-down perspective. Having a model on a higher base doesn't actually make it further away from models on lower bases.

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PostSubject: Re: Death from the Skies   Wed May 04 2016, 14:51

I just saw the three attack formations we can use for our Razorwing Jetfighter. All of them are only useful against air targets not ground targets. So it's basically useless. And the bomber can only use that on his bomb. So useless too.

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Creeping Darkness
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PostSubject: Re: Death from the Skies   Wed May 04 2016, 23:15

New FAQ wrote:
Q: Can a Swooping Flying Monstrous Creature or Zooming Flyer be targeted by a Blast or Template weapon with the Skyfire special rule?
A: Yes.

Well hello. Razors popping a pair of monoscythe (or shatter field!) missiles into another flyer's rear armour on top of its lances or dissies could be enough to tip the balance... Twisted Evil
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Mononcule
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PostSubject: Re: Death from the Skies   Wed May 04 2016, 23:27

We lacked anti-air, so it is not bad news for me.
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PostSubject: Re: Death from the Skies   Thu May 05 2016, 09:36

We can use our missiles against enemy flyers now?

Awesome!!

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drdoom222222
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PostSubject: Re: Death from the Skies   Thu May 05 2016, 12:54

does anyone know if missiles be used in a dogfight?
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PostSubject: Re: Death from the Skies   Thu May 05 2016, 14:35

drdoom222222 wrote:
does anyone know if  missiles be used in a dogfight?

If they can be used on the table, I don't see why they wouldn't be usable in the dogfight phase.
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Creeping Darkness
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PostSubject: Re: Death from the Skies   Thu May 05 2016, 22:11

Aaand the data sheets are on BOLS:

http://www.lounge.belloflostsouls.net/showthread.php?68413-New-fliers-for-orks-and-marines/page4

Just the same as in the Codex. No points break, no change to options or rules. Crimson Hubter still has Vector Dancer, Razorwing still doesn't Sad
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CptMetal
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PostSubject: Re: Death from the Skies   Thu May 05 2016, 23:36

And the formation for the fighters suck if you aren't fighting jetbikes or skimmers or other planes.

Great. I will probably don't use that crap and play as usual. I won't bother using the rules.

Nah. Maybe for the reserve manipulation but that's about it.

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PostSubject: Re: Death from the Skies   Thu May 05 2016, 23:49

Well that settles it, I'm not going to spend the money on it after all.
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PostSubject: Re: Death from the Skies   Fri May 06 2016, 00:36

CptMetal wrote:
And the formation for the fighters suck if you aren't fighting jetbikes or skimmers or other planes.

Great. I will probably don't use that crap and play as usual. I won't bother using the rules.

Nah. Maybe for the reserve manipulation but that's about it.

Well, reserve manipulation is sort of a big deal, especially if the changes in jink in the FAQ go through, and you still want to play with splinter boats, as your best bet for getting the maximal amount of BS4 shots out will be to deepstrike the raiders in.

Still, I wouldn't take more than 1 or 2 razorwings for that, unless I'm playing a really high-points game.
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PostSubject: Re: Death from the Skies   Fri May 06 2016, 01:42

Ironically the biggest boon for our flyers comes not from the dedicated flyer supplement, but from the FAQ!
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PostSubject: Re: Death from the Skies   Fri May 06 2016, 01:52

Thim going to try a list with two bombers and two fighters at 2000 points tomorrow. I'm curious how it plays out. Some of the benefits look good, especially with four flyers, but I imagine they are crazy expensive for what you get.
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PostSubject: Re: Death from the Skies   Fri May 06 2016, 03:29

Turns out we have tons of air units guys!



So this means our skimmers can shoot air now right?

Will be a decent buff if our ravagers can start killing air.  Its a bit of a stretch though.

Lots of people are commenting that tournaments might start dropping to 1500 points due to time with additional phases.  that would be an indirect buff as I believe we preform even better the lower the points.

Also the hemlock wraithfighter is an attack fighter!? can d scythes hit air now? At least bombers will have a harder time hitting our reavers.

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PostSubject: Re: Death from the Skies   Fri May 06 2016, 03:44

Just because it is an air target doesn't mean it will have skyfire just that skyfire can be used against them.
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PostSubject: Re: Death from the Skies   Fri May 06 2016, 03:58

Well that's lame, you would think from a race that's been at war for so long we would develop a way to defend our appropriate targets from their appropriate killers...

That reserves modifier though...



+1 to yours -1 to theirs.

if only you didnt have to devote 1/3 of your list for some of these formations Mad

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PostSubject: Re: Death from the Skies   Fri May 06 2016, 05:09

WhysoSully wrote:
Well that's lame, you would think from a race that's been at war for so long we would develop a way to defend our appropriate targets from their appropriate killers...

Common sense and the design of Dark Eldar in the current codex don't seem to have been associated.
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PostSubject: Re: Death from the Skies   Fri May 06 2016, 06:30

WhysoSully wrote:
Turns out we have tons of air units guys!



So this means our skimmers can shoot air now right?

Will be a decent buff if our ravagers can start killing air.  Its a bit of a stretch though.

Lots of people are commenting that tournaments might start dropping to 1500 points due to time with additional phases.  that would be an indirect buff as I believe we preform even better the lower the points.

Also the hemlock wraithfighter is an attack fighter!?  can d scythes hit air now?   At least bombers will have a harder time hitting our reavers.

If the hemlock is an attack fighter, then it doesn't have skyfire, so it snapfires vs. zooming flyers and swooping FMCs (so no templates), and since attack fighters are geared towards shooting ground targets, it fires at -1 BS vs. skimmers and jetbikes.
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