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 First time with Grots

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Mononcule
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PostSubject: First time with Grots   Sat Apr 23 2016, 15:27

Hi,

after months of hesitation finally I decided to try grotesques. I bought 6 crypt horrors for the conversion.

I wonder what could be the best way to use them. From what I read on the Darkcity the Grostesquerie seems solid and a good place to start. I still have a few questions:

1) is an IC mandatory?
2) I plan to put them in 2 raiders with aethersail and flat out on T1. Did you have any succes this way?

I also play Harlequins, and I'm curious to try a Shadowseer in each unit for the Ld, the spells, the mask, but also for the initiave boost (sweeping advances) and Hit&Run. What do you think?

thanks!
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Jimsolo
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PostSubject: Re: First time with Grots   Sat Apr 23 2016, 16:17

1) In the actual formation, yes he is.
2) God, yes. You don't usually even need the Aethersails. (I find Shock Prows to be a worthwhile investment, though.)

Hell, yes. A Shadowseer (or Farseer) added in helps quite a bit. The Shadowseer can add his Ld negative to the Grots' own, for a total of -3. Then you can roll on Telepathy for Hallucinations, Dominate, Terrify, or Psychic Shriek. (Personally, if you are ML 2, I would try to fish for Mirror of Minds/the other Phantasmancy Ld one, and then take your other power on Telepathy, possibly sacrificing it for Psychic Shriek if it isn't a witchfire)
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Mononcule
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PostSubject: Re: First time with Grots   Tue Apr 26 2016, 22:50

Thanks!

I will add an IC and try a few combinations. To add freakshow tricks seems a great idea: it add another angle of attack. The 4+ cover spell seems good also is the grots wipe the entire squad the turn they charge.
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Adma
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PostSubject: Re: First time with Grots   Sun Jun 26 2016, 03:51

I too am taking the plunge with grots. Until I get them going in a grotesquerie. What's the best Way to field them from the codex? 4 in a raider with a baby sitter, Abby and scissor hand maybe?
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Laughingcarp
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PostSubject: Re: First time with Grots   Wed Jul 13 2016, 06:05

Been running units of 4 + Abby/Scissorhand for a while now, and they rock for me.
Scissorhand gives you that little bit of extra oomph to put the hurt on a hard target, like Terminators or a Drop Pod you need to clear out or something.

The Grotesquerie is definitely the way to play them though. 5/6 of those buffs are amazing, and even Shred can be great if you're up against higher toughness MCs.

Whether they're in the Grotesquerie formation or not, though, I always give them a babysitter. Always.
Personal preference says Succubus, HWG, Archite Glaive, and Armour of Misery if I've the pts.

But now you've got me wanting Shadowseers lol. Which of the Harlequin detachments/formations do you use to get access to Shadowseers?

Raider with Aethersails also the way to be IMO.

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Jimsolo
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PostSubject: Re: First time with Grots   Wed Jul 13 2016, 18:03

I don't worry about babysitters a great deal in Covens lists. It's extremely difficult to force the Morale check in the first place, and in the unlikely event that you do fail you'll become Fearless T2 and rally automatically.

Shadowseers are a little hard to get in. If you don't go unbound, the Cegorach's Revenge formation and the Masque detachment are your only options. (Two other detachments have them, but they also include restrictions that mean they can't join units.)

Fortunately, the Corsair Prince solves your problems! He can be taken in his own detachment or a regular allied or CAD, and can take the same 12" -2 Ld artifact the Shadowseer can, as well as having access to better equipment.
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Laughingcarp
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PostSubject: Re: First time with Grots   Thu Jul 14 2016, 00:52

My friends enjoy spamming Shriek, so I have no choice but to baby-sit.
Otherwise I agree with you on the general principle, Covens PFT table rocks face.

As for the Shadowseers, yeah that's a shame. I have Seer/Jester/Solitaire to run the Path of Heroes (which I love), but laid down the law a month ago saying I can't buy more models until I catch up painting everything else (which will take at least half a year).
Corsairs it is! I've just posted two lists inspired by this post and others in the Corsairs/Allies section of our forum, if anybody would be willing to take a look.

Back to the OP, one of my lists uses the Grotesquerie with Corsairs ICs, specifically a Prince and a Void Dreamer, both with Shimmershields.
15pts gets you a 5++ which shares to the unit, which I'm seeing as a HUGE buff to Grotesques.
So my units are:

3 Grotesques + Aberration w/Scissorhand, Raider w/Aethersails
Prince, Combat Drugs, Shimmershield, Void Sabre, Haywire Grenades

3 Grotesques + Aberration w/Scissorhand, Raider w/Aethersails
Void Dreamer, level 3, Shimmershield, Haywire Grenades

There are some potent powers in the Corsairs list that can buff Coven units; specifically I'm thinking of Warp Blink. Slides the target unit (friendly or enemy, but it has only got 6" range) 2d6" in the direction of your choosing. May still charge as normal after this slide.

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MHaruspex
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PostSubject: Re: First time with Grots   Thu Jul 14 2016, 00:56

I also used to run Corsair characters with Grotesques for Shimmershields to make the Grots even more resilient - are you still doing that since the FAQ dropped saying you can't start inside the transports of battle brother allies?

I gave up on it, but if you're starting the squad on foot, embarking, and then moving forward, I'd be curious to hear if you think the Shimmershield is worth only moving the Raider 6" on turn 1 and delaying the turn 2 charge to a turn 3 charge.
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Laughingcarp
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PostSubject: Re: First time with Grots   Thu Jul 14 2016, 07:46

Well firstly, the FAQ hasn't "dropped" yet. It is in a Draft stage, as stated by their Facebook page.
Draft does not equal finished product.
Yes it's absolutely worth taking into consideration and even practicing with, given that they've stated they likely won't change much, but still.

Secondly, Independent Characters are not affected by this restriction to begin with.
"Q: Can units that are Battle Brothers embark in each other's Transport vehicles during deployment?
A: No.
"

The rule is pretty clear in one instance;
I cannot, at deployment, put a unit of Eldar Fire Dragons inside a Dark Eldar Raider.

However, when an Independent Character from one faction joins a unit from an allied faction, the joined unit's faction does not change.
BRB p.166 specifies that "An Independent Character can begin the game already with a unit, either by being deployed in unit coherency with it or, if the unit is in Reserve, by you informing your opponent of which unit it has joined."
But more importantly;
"While an Independent Character is part of a unit, he counts as part of the unit for all rules purposes, though he still follows the rules for characters."
Ergo, the Corsair Independent Character joined to a unit of Grotesques "counts as" part of a Dark Eldar faction Grotesque unit, and may begin the game embarked in their Dark Eldar dedicated transport.

Lastly, I'm not trying to bend rules to make my plans work. I play Chaos and DE; I'm used to working with the very short end of the stick we're given. This time, the rules don't work against us.

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Jimsolo
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PostSubject: Re: First time with Grots   Thu Jul 14 2016, 15:08

Two things:

A- How does the babysitter help with Psychic Shriek? I thought the permission to use the highest Ld in the unit was limited to Leadership and Morale checks.

B- I hope your interpretation of the IC thing is correct, but I doubt any coordinators will agree. Keep in mind it worked exactly this way in 6th, and no one allowed it then.
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BetrayTheWorld
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PostSubject: Re: First time with Grots   Fri Jul 15 2016, 00:44

@Jimsolo wrote:

A- How does the babysitter help with Psychic Shriek? I thought the permission to use the highest Ld in the unit was limited to Leadership and Morale checks.

You have any supporting rules citations on this, Jim? If we're supposed to be using majority leadership, I've been getting jipped out of wounds on a regular basis. Also, this would make grots pretty terrible against shriek, even with an attached character.

I'm honestly not sure whether I'm rooting for you to be right or wrong here, haha. Both help AND hurt my stuff. Either way, I'd love to see some rulebook clarification on this! Very Happy

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Marrath
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PostSubject: Re: First time with Grots   Fri Jul 15 2016, 02:10

In the book it only says: 3D6 -Target's leadership = Wounds to the Unit
Can a single model be targeted here?
Thus the Grotesques being the weak link in this unit's chain, leadership-wise?

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Jimsolo
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PostSubject: Re: First time with Grots   Fri Jul 15 2016, 02:11

@BetrayTheWorld wrote:
@Jimsolo wrote:

A- How does the babysitter help with Psychic Shriek? I thought the permission to use the highest Ld in the unit was limited to Leadership and Morale checks.

You have any supporting rules citations on this, Jim? If we're supposed to be using majority leadership, I've been getting jipped out of wounds on a regular basis. Also, this would make grots pretty terrible against shriek, even with an attached character.

I'm honestly not sure whether I'm rooting for you to be right or wrong here, haha. Both help AND hurt my stuff. Either way, I'd love to see some rulebook clarification on this! Very Happy

The rules aren't clear either way. I just know all the groups I'm in use majority.
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Laughingcarp
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PostSubject: Re: First time with Grots   Fri Jul 15 2016, 03:27

My very competitive, mostly ITC, meta uses highest LD in the unit vs Shriek.
Have never even heard of anybody doing it differently until this conversation.

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Jimsolo
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PostSubject: Re: First time with Grots   Fri Jul 15 2016, 04:23

Unfortunately there's no rules basis for doing it either way.
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